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Poll

The Moment Of The Week (Yeah, we're doing it again):

Caring Hannelore cares!
- 9 (7.6%)
"You're a terrible influence, alcohol-induced hallucination."
- 18 (15.1%)
Where's Faye's Bra?
- 7 (5.9%)
Some kind of creepy trophy...
- 1 (0.8%)
Sheer Intensity of Makeouts?
- 4 (3.4%)
Quantum Tunnelling effect
- 9 (7.6%)
Please tell me you did not drink that entire bottle
- 0 (0%)
That was a terrible idea.
- 3 (2.5%)
At least ONE of us isn't gonna remember this in the morning.
- 15 (12.6%)
Did I say anything stupid last night? No, you were fine.
- 6 (5%)
OWLS. Owls? OWLS.
- 38 (31.9%)
So, do you want me to kill Dora for you?
- 6 (5%)
Love you too, mom.
- 3 (2.5%)

Total Members Voted: 102


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Author Topic: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)  (Read 145897 times)

hannahsaurusrex

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #600 on: 16 Dec 2010, 02:59 »


I must say, I prefer this sober-but-irritated Jeph to the Jeph that posts shock images and porn.

After all the posts we did, I'm surprised he ONLY did shock images and porn. Especially with the subsequent "OMGJEPHNEEDSHELP" thread.

EDIT: In all actuality, I would prefer not to irritate Jeph at all.
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 03:04 by hannahsaurusrex »
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #601 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:00 »

Admittedly I haven't been here long, but really the only time it got so bad that I just had to throw my hands up and stop posting was during the whole Dora-Marten break up week. There are always creeps and trolls every week (and honestly those are more titles that shift from person to person as the weeks go on, depending on individual bias, ect) but that week it just spread a little too far, to the point where an entire page could consist of nothing but trolls and frankly it was no longer conductive to discussion. I've yet to see these forums come even close to that level since, even with the whole "Sexual Assault" fiasco from last strip.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #602 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:04 »

Apparently not a Space Owl, though...
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #603 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:15 »

Now that's a drunken rant that makes sense. Kudos to Jeph on making Marten so realistic. I remember times when I've been in the deepest pit of despair over something and lashed out at my close friends for past grievances which I had thought I forgave them for. I think most people realize that no slight is ever fully forgiven when emotional pain drives them to think deeply about it.

Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #604 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:20 »

I've read QC since before it hit 1000 comics, and this is the first time it has really depressed me. I signed up pretty much just to say that I really hope we can get back to some more cheerful comics soon. I admit that Faye and Angus having a makeout session was not too bad, but there are far too many comics with sad faces lately. I especially don't want to see Marten being a dick to Faye, they are usually such good friends. Even if there's some justification (I don't know if there is...) for him to feel that way, it still makes me sad.

He does have a point about Faye seeming to like jerks though. There's no way Sven was anything but a jerk to her, and she jumped into his bed without much hesitation. Even though Angus has been acting like a decent guy lately he definitely had some jerk traits to him way back when he was first introduced. It pretty much seemed like foreplay between him and Faye when they'd spar verbally. She likes that kind of thing.

I'm definitely not saying that makes it OK for Marten to say what he did or to make advances toward her though. I would never use a completely hyperbolic term like "harassment", but their history together makes it completely out of line. Just as one friend to another, he should always know that is something you can't say even as a joke.

When I say Angus has some jerk traits, I don't mean I dislike the character and believe he's all wrong for Faye. He's not too well developed, barely has a fully-formed personality yet, but I've got nothing against the dude. Then again, I never had any problem with 'classic Sven' either. So he sleeps with lots of women. The only reason I can see to dislike him for that is jealousy. He never did anything all that bad, unless I forgot something. We only have Dora's word for a lot of the things he is supposed to have done in the past, and forgive me if I take that with a whole ocean of salt.

So... yesterday's comic made me really sad, and I really don't want this from QC. Obviously it has to be resolved but after that I hope there's a goddamn long break from anything related to relationship drama. I don't mind if Marten (or anyone else) manages to get together with someone in a nice, happy story arc, but please... no more sad faces. Not for a while.

Today I have a slight concern about events. I don't know if it is far of Faye to keep from Marten the knowledge of what he said and did last night. Now he doesn't get to apologize or to tell her that he didn't really mean it. He might vaguely remember some of the details as the day goes on, and it might well fester in both of their minds. It could spoil a really good friendship. In fact my fear yesterday was that it might already have done so, but Faye... seems to have forgiven him. The one good thing about her violence is that she usually treats the act of knuckle retribution as the end of the matter.

I hope Faye and Marten talk about this later, or maybe that Faye tells someone (Hannelore?) who then tells Marten.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #605 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:22 »

For what it's worth, I don't care if people overanalyze things. I mean, I think it's stupid, and they're wrong 99% of the time, but that's kind of what forums are FOR. It's the stupid arguing, the creepy character-fetishization, and the "I hate character X no matter what and will drag this into every single discussion" idiocy that I have a problem with.
Fair enough. I'm taking a look at myself.

And yes, Faye is indeed a "you've had your lumps, no more to be said" kind of girl. Excellent Agent Turing shout-out too.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #606 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:39 »

You do realise that now Marten's going to have a random flashback during the day, cueing cries of "Ohshitohshitohshit..." and a mild breakdown, right?
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #607 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:50 »

Maybe, maybe not.  It's hard to predict what brain cells get killed by the alcohol.  Some memories are actually gone for good, and no amount of piecing things together can help.

Remember, the stuff is a poison!  It's literally the toxic waste of yeast.  And, while killing a few brain cells on occasion is fun for the side effects, it's the massive doses and/or continuous use that causes real problems.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #608 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:55 »

Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
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akronnick

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #609 on: 16 Dec 2010, 03:56 »

Dude's just lucky he's not in the hospital right now.

Skinny little runt like Marten, whole bottle of rotgut, that's just a bad idea!

Even without the owls, Marten's head probably feels like a steam roller used his skull for a parking block.
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themacnut

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #610 on: 16 Dec 2010, 04:03 »

I doubt Marten will remember. Between the fifth of bourbon and the fist to the skull, those memories should be pretty well wiped. And it's great of Faye to let them stay that way. Marten's already nursing a major hangover and a throbbing goose egg on the noggin, he doesn't need crushing guilt added to the mix. (And we should all know Marten WOULD feel crushing guilt over what he said and tried to do to Faye right? Right?)

Besides he's still got the impending visit of his mom to deal with. Hearing of his drunk-induced dickery may well drive him to suicide rather than face his mom with THAT knowledge.
 
EDIT:

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?

If Faye's smart, she won't mention...the incident. The only way Ms. Reed (her real name btw) could find out is if someone tells her, and I don't see either Faye or Marten doing so.
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 04:07 by themacnut »
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raoullefere

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #611 on: 16 Dec 2010, 04:08 »

Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
A) I'm pretty sure she meant emotionally and B) I suspect Veronica would've beaned a friend who tried that on her herself. Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.
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Boomslang

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #612 on: 16 Dec 2010, 04:11 »

Marten may not be able to reason through the 'owls' explanation right now, but he's probably going to realize upon recovering that Faye probably didn't actually mean owls. And then it will occur to him that Faye must have had a good reason to blame the sore skull on the owls, rather than tell him what really caused it, and then he will hopefully drop the matter without saying something, because he really should trust Faye about these things. She's definitely a better influence than the beast of bourbon.

So, Veronica?

Next week?
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akronnick

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #613 on: 16 Dec 2010, 04:17 »


<snip>

...Also, C) as has been pointed out, who's going to tell her? The poor, framed owl? Ther\y don't talk too much, even in their own defense.

WHOOO?!?!?!?! HOO??!!! HOO??!!! indeed.







Owl noises.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #614 on: 16 Dec 2010, 04:22 »

Ninja'd, by akronnick, no less. 
 
(0v0)

Who, me?


Also, I'm pretty sure Marten already knows what "Owls" means.  And he's friend-smart enough to drop it. 

'cause it means Faye stopped him from doing something that needed to be stopped, just like the last time. 
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 04:27 by Carl-E »
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Border Reiver

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #615 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:09 »

*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
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gathayah

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #616 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:17 »

What? No Faye, rip him a new one! He deserves it!
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A drunken haiku

Carl-E

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #617 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:22 »

No, he does not. 

From the fundamental character thread yesterday, please forgive me for self-quoting;

A lot of this is the bourbon talking, too.  It's simplified his outlook and view of the situation, 'cause face it, you can't analyse anything complex when inebriated.  Drunken epiphanies are garbage in the sober light of day. 

I can actually hear his slurring of "Commere an' gimme a..."  (Why do "stinkin" drunks seem to always wanna kiss someone?)

In some ways it's unfortunate that he probably won't remember this.  Because Faye will. 

Always. 

Sorry, this isn't shedding much light on Marten's fundamental character, but it's more along the lines that what we're seeing in 1818 isn't really his fundamental character - it's a proto-Marten, like a laptop running in "Safe" mode - severely impaired at best. 

That's a helluva lot of bourbon for a skinny kid, even counting Hanner's glass (which he probably finished off after she left). 

Faye's forgiving him, though.  And now, he knows it, even though he doesn't know why. 

After all, what are friends for?  And despite whatever remnants of sexual tension there may be, they are still the best of friends. 
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Skewbrow

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #618 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:30 »

*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.

I'm afraid such unethical practices are not unheard of in the academiae. For the purpose of making your list of publications look longer than it actually is. I am uncertain as to whether it is illegal, i.e. whether you could be tried for that in a court of law, but it is most certainly frowned upon.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #619 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:36 »

I love how Faye doesn't seem angry at all. Marten made a stupid mistake, and Faye is forgiving him. All's right with the world.


*having said this, I am now guaranteed to plagiarize myself by accident sometime in the next year. Fuck.

Not sure if it is legally possible to plagarize yourself.
And if it is not, can Jeph sue himself???
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Mr_Rose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #620 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:43 »

OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180 they have no idea how to walk backwards.

I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.
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akronnick

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #621 on: 16 Dec 2010, 05:50 »

Wait...

Are the rocks themselves covered with feathers or is it the sack as a whole?




This is Very Important!

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Akronnick, I can think of no more appropriate steed for a Knight Of The Dickbroom than a foul-mouthed, perpetually shouting, lust-crazed bird with a scrotum hanging from its chin and a distinctive cry of "Gobble gobble gobble".   --Tergon

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #622 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:05 »

Thank fuck!

They move on, Marten takes up owl hunting as a way to relieve stress, that stupid sexual harassment talk is over with, and we can get back to thinking about the important things in the comic: Marten's mom showing up and putting Dora and a group of endangered owls in two separate, soon-to-explode buildings and giving Pizza Girl the wrong addresses on purpose.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #623 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:07 »

(TLDR comments since last post)

Re: today's comic - At least she didn't say "space owls."
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bhtooefr

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #624 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:13 »

Marten may not be able to reason through the 'owls' explanation right now, but he's probably going to realize upon recovering that Faye probably didn't actually mean owls. And then it will occur to him that Faye must have had a good reason to blame the sore skull on the owls, rather than tell him what really caused it, and then he will hopefully drop the matter without saying something, because he really should trust Faye about these things. She's definitely a better influence than the beast of bourbon.

Also, I'm pretty sure Marten already knows what "Owls" means.

Indeed - keep in mind that he was present for Faye's explanation that space owls attacked Agent Turing. (Never mind that Jeph said that he forgot about that one, but it still works.)

That said... Veronica is coming to town very soon. She may well see the lump on his head, and start asking questions. Then things will get interesting...
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #625 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:19 »

Fuckin' owls man, you can't trust them. They're like green space-born Welsh ninjas.

"The owls are not what they seem."
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #626 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:25 »

If this is the bottom, what's the first step up?

Hungover apologies to Faye.    - 58 (39.5%) DINGDINGDING We have a winnah!
Marten puking on Faye.    - 14 (9.5%)
Marten puking on MOM.    - 12 (8.2%)
Mom believing Faye about the right hook.    - 9 (6.1%)
Marten puking on Pintsize.    - 3 (2%)
Marten throwing Pintsize across the room.    - 4 (2.7%)
Faye finding out Pintsize has her bras.    - 7 (4.8%)
Faye throwing Pintsize across the room.    - 1 (0.7%)
Dora finally "getting it" in therapy.    - 9 (6.1%)
Hannelore meets Mom.    - 18 (12.2%)
Other    - 12 (8.2%)

Total Voters: 147
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #627 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:29 »

(so far, the "nobody wants to rape a fat chick" fallacy is still holding, knock on wood). 
Not just fallacy - outright lie.

Seriously, knockin' on wood along with ya, but yeah, better to be prepared.

I'm gonna second that, being both a fat girl and a survivor of sexual assault. Please learn how to defend yourself. It might save your life.

Okay, I anticipated at least one reply like this when I woke up this morning and thought back to it, and I've already prepared my remarks:

I will not apologize for my choice of words, because I believe anyone who knows or can find out what fallacy means could reasonably deduce that I know rape isn't like that.

I *will*, however, very deeply and whole-heartedly apologize for casually throwing around a phrase that would almost assuredly be a trigger for at least one person reading the forums.  I promise I really do try to keep those sorts of remarks to a minimum, even in jest, and I apologize for any hurt I inflicted by not catching this one.  And I will warn that I intend to explain triggers in my next few paragraphs, and I'll be using an example, so please be prepared.

For those of you who are blessed enough to not know about the concept of a trigger: There's a reason people label certain events as "traumatic".  These things mess with you.  Deeply.  And sometimes, in the course of getting on with your life after surviving a traumatic event, something else will happen that will remind you of that traumatic event, to the point where you begin to re-experience the memories or at least the feelings that accompanied it.  That something else is called a "trigger".  Survivors who share the details of their traumatic event will often preface such sharing with a trigger warning, because reading about (e.g.) a rape happening to someone else is a pretty easy way to be reminded of when it happened to you.

In the case of one of my previous posts, the statement that "no one wants to rape a fat chick" could very easily be someone's trigger, because while I know (and of course any full-bodied rape survivor knows) that such a statement is not true, there *are* still people in this world who genuinely believe it, and will tell such a survivor to her face that what happened to her could not possibly have been rape.  This simultaneously belittles her feelings, impugns her honesty and insults her appearance!  Seriously, if you want to kick someone while they're down, that's a really awesome way to do it.

Yes, I immediately followed the phrase with the word "fallacy" to indicate that I don't believe it, but I still could have done a better job of denoting that, or better yet have refrained from crediting my luck thus far to my size.  It was a glib remark that didn't add any value to my assertion, the joke did not need to be made to illustrate my point, and thus any hurt that I caused by saying it was truly unnecessary.

---

On a related note: some folks here have said that Faye overreacted in punching Marten when a simple push might have sufficed.  Some of the same folks are wondering why there's been such a popular response of "Hell Yeah Go Faye" in reaction to said punching.  I will suggest, without any regard for how many other people have suggested it before me, that if one were to examine the populations of forum posters who have received such unwelcome contact and those who have not, and compare them to the populations of folks who believe Faye was justified in her violence and those who are not, there would be significant overlap.

(Another potential trigger - sorry!)  I fall into the former camp in both cases.  I was an early bloomer and got a *ton* of unwelcome attention in middle school.  There was one day in seventh grade that I was literally surrounded by a group of boys leering at me, and the only thing that made them stop was that I punched one of them in the dick.  I didn't get in trouble for it, and I never got cornered like that again, but boys would still leer and make grabs at my chest, and I went for quite a while with my fingernails cut and filed into points just in case.

---

Finally, I would like to reassure anyone who was genuinely worried about my safety that I have taken self-defense classes, including the R.A.D. program offered through my workplace.  I've not been able to go back and re-take the drill in a while, but I am confident that if I am overcome by an attacker, it will not be due to my seizing in panic or not knowing what to do.  I've got that "transmute fear to anger" skill down pretty well.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #628 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:34 »

« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 12:11 by jwhouk »
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #629 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:39 »

can we stop comparing "who has the most compassion for a friend" dickhead points here?

they dont have to be equal, they are friends not acquaintances, and if marten really wanted her to be there while he began drinking he would have called or texted her saying "i could use a friend right now"

This.  So much this.
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Armadillo

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #630 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:46 »

1. I missed a Jeph rant at us?  Damn this feeble body for needing sleep...

2. At first, I thought Faye lying about what happened was a REALLY bad idea, honesty being the best policy and all, but the more I think about it it's the best course of action, at least as long as Marten is vomiting his pancreas and feels like a 777 landed on him. 

3.
...but if you honestly think something that (relatively) harmess qualifies as HARASSMENT I do not understand how you can get through your daily life without constantly suing people or pressing charges.



I've worked with people like this at Harbec and Webster Tool And Die.   They exist and they make life a living hell for everyone around them.

Imagine not being able to say "good morning, here is your work assignment" without being hauled into HR.    "Unwelcome advances."    Can't give them instructions, because everything you say is an innuendo and it makes them feel "uncomfortable" and creates a "hostile environment."

Frankly people who behave like that are the WORST sort of asshole and do not deserve employment.   

In fairness, you ARE supposed to wear pants at work.   :-D
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #631 on: 16 Dec 2010, 06:50 »

OWLS!
Everyone is fond of Owls
Except for mice and shrews
and Simon Cowells

I opened up the very toon after reading the comic.  It was too perfect.

Edit:
OK, look, I dunno how many of you guys have ever actually hung out with owls before, but I'm telling you now: Owls are stupid. Dumb as a sack of rocks covered in feathers. Really. They didn't get all that stealth shit by thinking about it, and now they have it, they have even less of a reason to try too hard.
I've seen one fall off its perch (the same one it'd been using for a year or so) because it took one foot off to adjust its position and missed when putting it back down. They also have the most amazing knack for getting "stuck" in places they walked into (and complaining about it loudly) because despite being able to turn their heads around almost 180° they have no idea how to walk backwards.

I can totally see a slightly confused owl mistaking Marten for a small rodent and having a go.

Now you listen to me.  How dare you malign such majestic creatures that way.  Clearly, you know nothing about owls.  Owls are vicious killers who would do you in a heartbeat.  They might act stupid, but that's only to throw you off their trail.  They're worse than squirrels, which is why the CIA now has them in their employ. 

True story.
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 07:01 by GeoffTheLlama »
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snubnose

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #632 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:02 »

Faye did the right thing too. Take the dickish behaviour then knock Marten on his ass to save him from his own self-destruction. And don't fault him for it in the morning.

Course, Veronica Vance did warn Faye about harming Martin. Think VV will understand given the situation, or see it as a threat?
Uh, I doubt that was the kind of damage Mrs Reed was talking about ...
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #633 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:06 »

Owls. Of course! Why didn't I think of the old trusty owl excuse?
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raoullefere

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #634 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:13 »

Poll option: Faye actually being NICE to a customer.

What the hell is in any way normal about that?
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PureLionHeart

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #635 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:20 »

We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #636 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:24 »

We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."
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Carl-E

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #637 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:25 »

Poll option: Faye actually being NICE to a customer.

What the hell is in any way normal about that?

I'm guessing it's a poor choiuce of words for the poll title.  None  of these have anything to do with normalcy...

How about "Road to recovery"?  
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adrialexi

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #638 on: 16 Dec 2010, 07:53 »

It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.

I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #639 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:12 »

We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
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GeoffTheLlama

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #640 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:17 »

We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone.  Maybe it IS me.   :psyduck:

Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.
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Delator

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #641 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:46 »

At least she didn't say "space owls."

You mean there's another kind of owl???  :-o
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Armadillo

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #642 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:48 »

Jehovah's Witness owls.  God, they're annoying.
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Odin

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #643 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:52 »

Also, Jesus Christ, people say DUMB SHIT when they're incoherently drunk. That comic was not some nefarious attempt by Marten to guilt Faye into fucking him. HE DRANK AN ENTIRE BOTTLE OF BOURBON. HIS BRAIN WAS NOT FUNCTIONING PROPERLY.

goddamnit see this is why I stopped posting in these threads for years, the more I have to explain the most basic shit to some people the angrier and angrier I get

Welcome to the Internet, Jeph (as the saying goes on another site "The Internet Makes You Stupid").

What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #644 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:53 »

I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

No, not banned (not that I've got any such powers).  And not in the least belittled.  What you certainly have is our sympathy, for what little good it does.  

It's clear that your "friend" went much further than Marten did, and had the size/strength differential been in Marten's favor, this incident could have ended much differently.  In the comic, it didn't, Faye was able to stop him.  It's also possible that, faced with what he was doing, Marten would have realized he was going too far, even in his drunken state.  

While it's possible to play the what if game with fictional characters, your real life went in a different direction, and to be honest, your "friend" (and I use the term very  loosely) was clearly no Marten.  I'm truly sorry for what happened to you, it should never happen to anyone, and it clearly puts you in a different place than many of us when reading this comic.  I hope you've been able to get some help for the trauma.  

But Jeph is  right about Marten and Faye.  He has to be, they're in his  head.  The situation sucked, he was being a dick, it went no further.  There is no alternate reality here, where Marten goes beyond the pale.  We realize it wasn't your reality, either.  Doesn't make you unwelcome, it's just more proof that in various ways, different for all of us, life sucks.  

Well, parts of it.  

The rest is pretty awesome, Keep trying to focus on that.  I understand it can help.  
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Rikushix

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #645 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:57 »

It is probably impossible to avoid a forum such as this having a certain amount of over-analysis going on.  It would in general be helpful if people would read enough of what's already been written to avoid simply repeating the same arguments, possibly already answered, which have been put before.  And think three times before posting yourself.

The point about sexual harassment is slightly more complex, as some of us are in countries where, in some circumstances, and with people being sufficiently vindictive, Marten's behaviour could have been enough possibly to take him to court.  Jeph may not be so aware of that (I'm guessing), and so sees that discussion as stupid, when there's actually a basis for it for some people.

Oh, no, I'm well aware that in certain situations that could be construed as criminal behavior. But in this particular one I fail to see how any reasonable human being would define it as out-and-out sexual harassment.

Marten and Faye are best friends. They know each other incredibly well. There is no way Faye, at the point where she is right now, would EVER think Marten's actions were anything more than drunken idiocy. She tends to go overboard when punishing that idiocy, but I think today's strip makes it fairly obvious she doesn't think Marten would've raped her or something horrible like that.

I will probably get banned for this, but that is stupid. That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

No. It's not a joke.

Jeph wasn't making a statement about women in general, he was making a statement about Marten and Faye. He feels that there's no possible way Faye could construe Marten's behavior as leading to sexual coercion or force.

If he had said "There is no way that a woman, at the point where she is in that situation, would ever think that a guy's actions were any more than drunken idiocy..." THEN I would agree with you.

But I don't. These are fictional characters and Jeph can make whatever broad statements he wants about them.

Rape is not funny. My girlfriend was raped - twice. It's a horrific experience and she still feels the effects from it.

But this has nothing to do with rape and you need to look at the bigger picture.

edit: Carl-E got to it first. Thank you for putting it more succinctly than me.

super edit: Man, I've been reading QC for years and this is only my 14th post?  :|
« Last Edit: 16 Dec 2010, 08:59 by Rikushix »
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Dr. ROFLPWN

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #646 on: 16 Dec 2010, 08:58 »

We NEED to see the damage Cataclysm has wrought on dear Marigold!

I'm betting it'd be super boring.

"FUCKING VASHJ'IR THIS UNDERWATER REPETITIVE SHIT SUCKS."

Hey you shut up about Vashj'ir, that zone is rad.

Besides, more likely she comes in dazed and muttering about "leveled Archaeology to 525...n-never again..."
You and the girlfriend are both all about that zone.  Maybe it IS me.   :psyduck:

Good lord, Archaeology makes me want to punch small defenseless stuffed animals right in the teeth.

I am not necessarily all about Vashj'ir, but I loved running around fightan naga on my seahorse and how Goddamn pretty it was. It didn't really get repetitive till right near the end, and even then, I could stand it, especially with the culmination.

Archaeology, on the other hand, has me punching small animals right alongside ye, but I can't stop what is wrong with me
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benenator

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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #647 on: 16 Dec 2010, 09:02 »

And this, laddies and jellyspoons, is why you don't drink a whole lion at once.
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #648 on: 16 Dec 2010, 09:04 »

That is exactly the situation when I was raped. So, a great big thanks to you for making it a joke.

You have my sympathy; it could not be otherwise.  But Jeph hasn't made your experience a joke, because the comic is not about you, nor was there a rape in the comic, nor did he make what Marten did in the comic a joke (indeed, he described it in his twitter as the darkest point of the current story).
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Re: WCDT: 13-17 Dec 2010 (1816-20)
« Reply #649 on: 16 Dec 2010, 09:04 »

What about the argument that Marten's behavior while drunk is indicative of some pretty deep running issues he needs to get sorted out (and the whole Nice Guy sub-argument here and in the characterization thread)?

Dammit, Odin, you're such a one-note monkey!  

Look, you keep saying "read your other posts", so I did.  Several of them.  Many are filled with calling other forumites morons or trolls, most have specious arguments gleaned from what must be a scanning of the archive, since you seem to have no grasp of a lot of the details of the story.  People who point out your fallacies are ignored, and ... well, I'm getting tired of it, really.  

Just ignoring the preponderance of the evidence and running around screaming "Marten's a spineless NiceGuyTM" does NOT  make it true.  

Now go back, and really read  the damn comics.  I know it may be a challenge, but I think you'll find it's worth it.  You also might want to try listening to other people.  You don't have to agree with them, but if you actually listen to what they say, you may be able to refute them without simply calling them names.  

Or you can go get a job at Fox news.  

Either way, it should keep you busy for a while.  
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