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Poll

What music should Dora put on for the inevitable bloody reckoning that is to come?

Something up beat and poppy! You can't spell "slaughter" without "laughter" after all!
- 12 (18.5%)
Slayer. Why is this even a question?
- 28 (43.1%)
New Age Spathe Ham Electronica
- 4 (6.2%)
Dubstep, Drop the bass and dropkick someone's soul.
- 8 (12.3%)
I would tell you what band I'd go on a rampage to, but you'd have never heard of them. Pleb.
- 8 (12.3%)
Dora should just calm down and visualize whirled peas till she feels better.
- 5 (7.7%)

Total Members Voted: 65

Voting closed: 30 Aug 2014, 02:49


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 9   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT: 2776-2780 (25-29 August 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 30724 times)

CaptainFish

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I feel like despite any specifics Dora is misattributing, Sven's intent matches up with what Dora perceived that intent to be.

Sven seems like he's still in a good position to become a better person with help, though. I hope she at least takes that chance on him.
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FunkyTuba

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It's the "I've got a secret" parade followed by smugly talking about it that smells like shitstorm seed crystals to me.
I'm not so sure about the first thing. Faye's there. She could just not want to be all "Hey, so Cosette told me that my brother told Steve he wanted you to run away with him and to hell with Angus. Discuss?"

I think that if that were the case then she would have been embarrassed/shut down about it... not coyly inviting discussion (Am I? How interesting! [...] La La laaaaaa)

My concern is the belief that somehow Dora orchestrated all of this to get attention focused on her when she's actually not the one who instigated this.

I don't think anyone's accusing her of having instigated it, but she's never been shy about using such situations in the past when they come up.

I can forgive an initial overboard reaction (red eyes) but she's definitely responsible for what she chooses to do in public (dancing back to her office while singing like she's the Secret Fairy and announcing this to Marten in that way (panel 1 happy star greeting, presumably in public, followed by exclamation pointed statements of that same secret)).

On a separate note: I think it shows the quality of the comic that these characters seem so real that we can psychoanalyze them even though they all came out of Jeph's head.
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Orkboy

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Wow.  I'm more impressed with the responses than I am with the comic.  Here's my take on it, though:



Wait for it.



If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.  I'm more interested in what this tells me about the readers than what this tells me about the characters. 

Consider yourselves observed, Attenborough-style. 

jwhouk

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Three pages, and it's only Monday. Impressive.

This week, I suspect, will be like watching a car wreck on the highway as it's unfolding in front of you. You'd like to turn away, but you just can't help but watch.



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If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.  I'm more interested in what this tells me about the readers than what this tells me about the characters. 

I don't know if I'd be as likely to comment on it, but I'd be terrified if that happened. The comic has been continuously moving toward less absurd and less violent (other than hitting Pintsize, and part because Faye's gotten therapy, but I think it's also that as the comic's more realistic, pain-slapstick doesn't fit so much), and that would be too weird and sudden.

Of course, while I might not comment in horror right when it happened, I would if after the next couple strips that got pushed aside instead of the characters treating it as an assault and possibly taking legal action.
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I too wonder at Dora's euphoria. As much as I've improved my life by removing certain people from it, it was never a delightful experience at the time.
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Somnus Eternus

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I too wonder at Dora's euphoria. As much as I've improved my life by removing certain people from it, it was never a delightful experience at the time.

It could be that sarcastic euphoria.  The "ISN'T THIS GREAT?! I know it isn't, but by golly I'm going to ACT like it is as a giant 'F-YOU' to the person in question!" type of thing. 

...Does...does that make sense? 
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Castlerook


I too wonder at Dora's euphoria. As much as I've improved my life by removing certain people from it, it was never a delightful experience at the time.

That's a giant warning sign for me that things are going to get worse before they get better. I can't shake the feeling that a lot of the cast are going to get caught up in this and it's going to hurt quite a lot of them in different ways.
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KOK

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Is there some kind of drug that has this effect? The most plausible explanation I con see for Dora's euphoria is that she felt so bad about this that she took something, and it has a greater effect than she expected.
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FunkyTuba

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Dora has always been the wicked witch of coffee of doom, and Faye has always been her sassy winged monkey minion. It just worked really well to be mean to customers.

Keep in mind: until Dorothy showed up, the wicked witch was doing just fine. ;)

Note: tongue deeply in cheek. Sven is no Dorothy.
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Jazzmaster

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Wow.  I'm more impressed with the responses than I am with the comic.  Here's my take on it, though:



Wait for it.



If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.  I'm more interested in what this tells me about the readers than what this tells me about the characters. 

Consider yourselves observed, Attenborough-style.

I was not entirely behind whatever she was planning on doing ever since the red-eyes panel way back when.  I would not have been "cool" at all with her violently handling a situation that has nothing to do with her at all.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2014, 15:31 by Jazzmaster »
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Loki

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I too wonder at Dora's euphoria. As much as I've improved my life by removing certain people from it, it was never a delightful experience at the time.

It could be that sarcastic euphoria.  The "ISN'T THIS GREAT?! I know it isn't, but by golly I'm going to ACT like it is as a giant 'F-YOU' to the person in question!" type of thing. 

...Does...does that make sense?
Yes. I thought that was what it was.
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Lost in the wave of discussion, I'll agree and comment on what a few people said about Sven; He's lost several levels of character recently. As I've seen people say in discussions well before this current arc, Hanners seems OK with Sven. Whether this means Sven has changed, or that he Hanners couldn't read him doesn't matter much to discuss right now,but Sven isn't acting to the extents of his character.

On a different note, I hope Sven isn't cut off from the rest of the cast, I want to see him around more. (He and Jimbo need to combine their respective bad-song and bad-book skills to make a mutli-media empire.)
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If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.
Just so. :wink:
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quix0te

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Then again, cutting the guy off completely might be kinda harsh. I mean, some of Sven's actions haven't exactly been smart but he's not a completely abusive jackass or something.
Pretty much what I was thinking.  In the hierarchy of people to get out of your life, he strikes me as kind of low.  He's not really a user.  He's usually pretty honest about what he's about.  He's not mean-spirited and doesn't have a substance abuse issue.  He seems like a pretty strong candidate for 'tough love'. "Sven, I'm your sister and I love you, but this behavior makes me not want to be around you, or acknowledge you as my brother.  This is not what love is.  Also, Faye could actually murder you and I need her at CoD"
'Cutting someone out' is usually reserved for people that have established a predatory relationship with you or others.  As presented, he seems rather gormless.
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quix0te

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If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.  I'm more interested in what this tells me about the readers than what this tells me about the characters. 
I don't know about broom handles, but getting angry and yelling at him is a form of engagement, which might goad him to re-examine and re-evaluate.  Breaking off contact precludes the possibility that she can help him move in a more positive direction, albeit with words, kicks, or cartoonish brooms and skillets.  What he did is kind of a dopey move, but he's already gotten some suffering for it.  I'm not opposed to more, but in my experience isolation does NOT lead to personal growth as well as somebody poking you in the butt and saying "Cut that crap out!"
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sitnspin

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She is under no obligation to help him stop being a selfish immature brat. Especially at the expense of her own mental health. If she truly believes that having him in her life causes her mental harm, then cutting him off is the right move. Sven is a grown man, it's not his younger sister's job to make him act like one.

Is Sven the cause of all her problems? Of course not, but their relationship is a source of mental and emotional strain for her, even if it is just because of her perception of it. If having him around hampers her health and recovery, then being away from him, even is just temporarily, is a smart move.
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If Dora had started hitting Sven with a broom handle or something while yelling at him, everyone here would be cool with it.  BUT! because she's instead decided to distance herself from him, avoid the implied ultra-violence most of us were expecting, and just not wade into the shitstorm, about 50% of the readers have decided that she is the Wicked Witch of the Coffeehouse.  I'm more interested in what this tells me about the readers than what this tells me about the characters.

Of course.

One is an act of reciprocation - it serves to balance the scales.  It's almost a friendly gesture, really.

One is an act of destruction.
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themacnut

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She is under no obligation to help him stop being a selfish immature brat. Especially at the expense of her own mental health. If she truly believes that having him in her life causes her mental harm, then cutting him off is the right move. Sven is a grown man, it's not his younger sister's job to make him act like one.

I'm with sitnspin here - no adult is under any obligation to help another adult "straighten up and fly right", so to speak. It's hard enough doing that with one's own kids! If the other adult's refusal to straighten up causes grave problems in the first adult's life, the first adult is entirely within their rights to distance themselves fron the other adult's problems, no matter the relationship between them.

It's one of the benefits of being an adult that you can choose who you want to associate with. Or not associate with, in this case.
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Is Sven the cause of all her problems? Of course not, but their relationship is a source of mental and emotional strain for her, even if it is just because of her perception of it. If having him around hampers her health and recovery, then being away from him, even is just temporarily, is a smart move.

Pretty much. That, AFAIK, is the definition of a toxic relationship.
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Mafarfloune

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There's been much talk about the undeserved hate Dora can get on this board, but not so much about the undeserved hate Sven seems to get : Let's reorient the discussion towards that. What exactly has Sven done to warrant being called an ass/manipulator/toxic/etc by some people on here? Because the situations I seem to recall Sven being are :

- Sleeping with a bunch of women, but I can't remember seeing much about how the women felt after the "relationship" was over. One may assume he's been using/manipulating, but I don't think we have solid grounds for that.

- He did hurt Faye. But let's remember the context : Faye was basically putting themselves in a "relationship" demanding commitment (or sacrifices) from Sven, but not so much from Faye. People also tend to put aside the fact that the relationship ultimately hurt Sven a lot more than it did Faye.

- Having everything too easy and angering Dora because of it.

- Being generally cool and honest to people, though sometimes having trouble grasping the concepts of other people around him not having it as easy.

- Giving Hanners a good time, and being a gentleman about it.

- Being confused at how Faye had "changed" him.

- Being boldly honest with Faye, though at a very wrong time for her. Then again, context : he's spent most of the time since the Faye relationship thinking about her, unable to find other girls interesting anymore, and being generally unhappy about the way things turned out. It came to him as an epiphany that he really was in love with Faye, and telling her would be the only thing keeping him from self-loathing (plus, blissfully thinking it will work). I don't think he's a friend of Angus, he didn't harass Faye (came clean about his feelings, didn't keep going once she told him to fuck up). As far as I'm concerned, he's mostly been a gentleman there.

So obviously Sven is in my good graces. Care to remind me of the really bad things that he did?




oh and hi I'm new here nice to meet you and all that.
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Schmorgluck

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I think Dora is going too far in the right direction. Which is a convoluted way to miss one's goal.

Both Dora and Sven could probably benefit from some honest confrontation. Which I aknowledge is complicated to set up. But I think it's something Dora should try before deciding to cut bridges. Many (if not all) of her issues are tied to Sven. Her excluding him from her life could only result in Sven possibly growing up - which isn't a bad thing, but what's in it for her? She's running from the core issues that undermine her happiness.

EDIT: And by the new comic (which wasn't up as of the above), Marten seems to be roughly of the same opinion as mine. Which I find unconfortable.
« Last Edit: 25 Aug 2014, 20:08 by Schmorgluck »
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ASB84

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The way Dora's acting - overly cheerful, kinda creepily so - suggests that she's not handling the situation well. She's arguably a bit unhinged and overreacting, and I think that's how she's meant to be portrayed, given her expressions and Marten's reactions. The news she's received second/third-hand has stirred up issues she has with her brother, she's pretty much over the whole thing, and wants to wash her hands of him. Drastic, but not completely inappropriate...except that we have seen Sven show signs of not being a complete jerk, as well as offering compassion and support to Dora in the wake of her breakup with Marten.

And to me, that's kind of the issue here: Sven's characterisation. The current arc both intrigues me and bugs me in that regard; it's not completely out of character for him, but in portraying him as an antagonist and the bad guy in the whole situation, it seems like his more redeemable characteristics (and smarts) have been stripped away, his nicer moments glossed over. His current behaviour either casts past events in a new light, or flies in the face of them. I suppose only Jeph really knows for sure, having created the character and all that, but his character development up until now has established him as "kind of a jerk, but a decent enough person deep down".

We've also seen him admit that he's never had a meaningful relationship, and the whole thing with Faye has really messed him up. Granted, in his most recent appearance, he's handled the whole situation very poorly, but it's clear that he has issues himself. I think Dora sometimes gets a bit wrapped up in "look how easy he has it, everything's so hard for me" self-pitying to realise that while Sven has had it easy in some things, he's also got problems of his own. I'm guessing that's what rubs some people the wrong way and makes Dora seem less sympathetic.
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Nyithra

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I might be able to understand why Dora would do this if she even thought to have a discussion with Sven over it, even if it was just a declaration of cutting him out. Why does she have to declare it to Marten and then immediately ask him to keep it secret?
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I wouldn't outright tell Faye, but I wouldn't have covered for Dora when Faye asked what the secret was either.

Also...why is she telling Marten?
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Oh dear.  Marten and Dora not being up front with Faye may be a bad idea.  Dora probably doesn't want Faye to think the split is her fault.
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Nyithra

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Also...why is she telling Marten?

"Neutral party" I'm guessing?
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A positive example of Dora/Sven's relationship that I'm surprised wasn't mentioned yet (unless I missed it) is Sven letting Dora stay at his apartment after she broke up with Marten. They may have both been rather bitchy about it at the time, but Sven in that instance did not hurt Dora or her friends in any way.
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Valeyard

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OK, registered just to post this: The most toxic person in the comic is calling someone else toxic?  Seriously?

Yeah. This.

Dora invades Marten's porn collection despite clearly being given the impression she didn't have his permission. When Marten quite rightly is upset. How does she react? By dumping him and breaking his heart. She's pretty much the only girlfriend he's ever going to have.

Marten will now be forever alone. What does Dora get? She only has to go to therapy. That's it. Even Veronica shows far more compassion to the girl who crushed her only child's heart than she does to her own flesh and blood offspring.

Dora then proceeds to crush Jim's heart. And Dora gets rewarded by hooking up with TaiDora isn't only toxic, she's a literal karma houdini. She hardly gets a slap on the wrist karma wise. While Marten only suffers. Padma left him. He was deemed not good enough by the security girl on the space station or Delilah. And now he's going to sabotage even the remote possibility of Emily.

Let's not forget that Jeph himself has stated that  Any and all chances at happiness for Marten is officially dead. Dora? Has a business thriving so well she has to hire more help AND a girlfriend.

Sven may have fucked up a couple times, but Dora is the absolute last person entitled to pass judgement on him. Sven only broke ONE heart while Dora has crushed at least two. And she's just going to cut him out entirely without at least trying to talk to him first? Let's not forget who took her in when she moved out of Marten and Faye's apartment. Hell, she locked him out of his own apartment when he admitted Veronica was hot.

And she says he's the toxic one. Pot. Kettle. Black.
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"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.
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plusorminus

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There's been much talk about the undeserved hate Dora can get on this board, but not so much about the undeserved hate Sven seems to get : Let's reorient the discussion towards that. What exactly has Sven done to warrant being called an ass/manipulator/toxic/etc by some people on here? Because the situations I seem to recall Sven being are :

- Sleeping with a bunch of women, but I can't remember seeing much about how the women felt after the "relationship" was over. One may assume he's been using/manipulating, but I don't think we have solid grounds for that.

- He did hurt Faye. But let's remember the context : Faye was basically putting themselves in a "relationship" demanding commitment (or sacrifices) from Sven, but not so much from Faye. People also tend to put aside the fact that the relationship ultimately hurt Sven a lot more than it did Faye.

- Having everything too easy and angering Dora because of it.

- Being generally cool and honest to people, though sometimes having trouble grasping the concepts of other people around him not having it as easy.

- Giving Hanners a good time, and being a gentleman about it.

- Being confused at how Faye had "changed" him.

- Being boldly honest with Faye, though at a very wrong time for her. Then again, context : he's spent most of the time since the Faye relationship thinking about her, unable to find other girls interesting anymore, and being generally unhappy about the way things turned out. It came to him as an epiphany that he really was in love with Faye, and telling her would be the only thing keeping him from self-loathing (plus, blissfully thinking it will work). I don't think he's a friend of Angus, he didn't harass Faye (came clean about his feelings, didn't keep going once she told him to fuck up). As far as I'm concerned, he's mostly been a gentleman there.

So obviously Sven is in my good graces. Care to remind me of the really bad things that he did?




oh and hi I'm new here nice to meet you and all that.

Good to meet you! I'm newish here, myself.

For me, aside from trying to get Marten to cover his ass when he was trying to avoid an ex-girlfriend, the shitty thing he did was when Faye told him "Uh, dude, I have  a boyfriend," Sven's response basically was "So? I'm telling you that I'm in love with you, and in every movie I've seen with John Cusak and/or Ryan Gosling, you're supposed to run away with me no questions asked." When she tells him to fuck off with that noise, he gets pissy with her. He then reiterates his fuckarsness when Steve calls him on it later basically saying "Again, I don't give a shit that she's in a relationship that makes her happy. I did the grand gesture thing and I'm Sven Bianchi and why didn't it work?"

To wit: He wanted Faye and didn't give a shit what her personal circumstances were. The important thing, to him, was that he wanted her. Period. When she rightly told him to fuck himself, he doesn't stop to think "Boy, that was shitty" he immediately starts whining that it should have worked.

That's shitty, borderline sociopathological shit to me. Sven's been pretty okay in my books to this point. I thought that he was right to call Dora out for striking him during the Faye thing and I really appreciated how he was the caring big brother immediately before and during Dora's breakup with Marten, but the sheer assholishness of his behavior with Faye tears it with me. JMO.

That said, I think Dora's heart is in the right place not wanting Faye to know, but the execution was poor. If she'd wanted to confide in Marten, she probably should have gone to the library, though that would have meant running into Tai, probably. But doing this at the shop was a bad move.


Yeah. This.

Dora invades Marten's porn collection despite clearly being given the impression she didn't have his permission. When Marten quite rightly is upset. How does she react? By dumping him and breaking his heart. She's pretty much the only girlfriend he's ever going to have.

That's pretty literally not true. Remember Padma? Or was that Dora's fault somehow too?

Also, it was one date and she pretty much told Jim the score at the end of said date. Jim literally started dating other people before Dora got together with Tai, so I doubt Jim was very "crushed."
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Castlerook


Also...why is she telling Marten?

I presume due to the fact that they did have a relationship and (according to Sven) the first decent guy Dora went out with. Yeah, they've broken up, but they still have a somewhat solid friendship, enough for her to talk to Marten about this. Outside of Faye, Marten would probably have experienced more of Sven's behaviour than anyone else in the cast.

Least, that's my €0.02.
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Oh jeez Faye is gonna think Marten and Dora are having sketchy ex sex because they won't tell her what they were really talking about and it's gonna be a whole THING and I will have to stop reading the comic for like a week.
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He is always going to carry himself like the Golden Boy,

I don't recall him ever bragging making a point about his good fortune.

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throwing tantrums when he doesn't feel he's getting his due. I'd cut him off, too.

Really now? Tantrums? He mentioned he'd never forgive not getting the USS Flagg Aircraft carrier. That's about as big of an emotional outburst at not getting what he wants as I've seen him have. At most he simply wonders why things don't fall neatly into his lap.

Clueless? Sure. Incapable of reading a situation correctly? Fair enough. But tantrums? I realize there's a sizeable  portion of the forum that has it in for the guy and will never, ever give him a break.
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sitnspin

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Also, Dora broke up with Marten because she knew it was an unhealthy relationship. She didn't break up with because he got mad at her. She recognized that her insecurity was the problem and would probably always be an issue given the circumstances under which it started. The break up was the right thing to do in that situation and it hurt her as much as him.
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@syleegrrl

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Oh jeez Faye is gonna think Marten and Dora are having sketchy ex sex because they won't tell her what they were really talking about and it's gonna be a whole THING and I will have to stop reading the comic for like a week.

I'd be surprised if it went that route. Dora's not been shown to be a cheater and I can't think Faye would really believe that she or Marten would do that to Tai. I think what is more likely to happen is Cosette will come in like "I can't BELIEVE that asshole said that to you," Faye will figure out that Dora knows and that whatever she and Marten were talking about has to do with that, and there will be some sort of argument, etc.
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sitnspin

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I think what you are missing, Valyard, is that it doesn't matter if Sven is a horrible person or toxic in general. All that matters for this decision is that Dora feels Sven is toxic for her personally. This is true for anyone. Having a particular person in your life might be detrimental to your well-being while not being so for other people.
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@syleegrrl

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OK, registered just to post this: The most toxic person in the comic is calling someone else toxic?  Seriously?

Yeah. This.

Dora invades Marten's porn collection despite clearly being given the impression she didn't have his permission. When Marten quite rightly is upset. How does she react? By dumping him and breaking his heart. She's pretty much the only girlfriend he's ever going to have.

Besides Padma apparently, and what's her face from college.  I agree though, that breakup was pretty shitty.  Marten isn't exactly clean with that, though.

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Marten will now be forever alone. What does Dora get? She only has to go to therapy. That's it. Even Veronica shows far more compassion to the girl who crushed her only child's heart than she does to her own flesh and blood offspring.
Yeah, I never cared for how she (Veronica) treated him either.  Not since the first time I saw her when I read the comic all the way through back in 2010.

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Dora then proceeds to crush Jim's heart.

Huh?  They went on one date.  It was completely amicable.

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While Marten only suffers. Padma left him.
She "left him" because she had to move away.   She didn't really want to leave.  Still, it was a shitty situation and I really sympathize with Marten and wish Padma fucking stayed.  She seemed to bring out the absolute best in him.

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He was deemed not good enough by the security girl on the space station or Delilah.
Well, not everyone is going to be attracted to you.  Sucks, but it's true.

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And now he's going to sabotage even the remote possibility of Emily.
I think it's still unclear at this point if there was even anything there.  So far it seems like she was just being her strange self.

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Let's not forget that Jeph himself has stated that  Any and all chances at happiness for Marten is officially dead.
When did he say this?  And are you sure he was serious?



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Sven only broke ONE heart while Dora has crushed at least two.
It's been implied that Sven broke more than one heart, if you count the blonde at the bar that he tried to sucker Marten into distracting way way WAY earlier on in the comic.

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And she's just going to cut him out entirely without at least trying to talk to him first? Let's not forget who took her in when she moved out of Marten and Faye's apartment.

Yeah, that along with the comment she made to Faye that went to the effect of "basically, do the opposite of whatever Marten is doing" both kinda pissed me off.  Come to think of it, after reading some of the comments here it DOES seem like she's got this tendency to completely forget about the people who have been there for her and "put up with her" while she's making just plain rude fucking comments about them, or straight up threatening to cut them out of her life.

Warning - while you were typing 4 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Hah, damn.  It's an active week in here for sure.

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Kugai

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Dora invades Marten's porn collection despite clearly being given the impression she didn't have his permission. When Marten quite rightly is upset. How does she react? By dumping him and breaking his heart. She's pretty much the only girlfriend he's ever going to have.

Marten will now be forever alone.

There is much about Valeyard's post that can be argued with, but I find this, I can't muster much of an argument. It remains to be seen if this trend will continue, but Marten's luck with romantic endeavors has been simply lousy, especially compared to the rest of the cast.

There was Vicky, who dumped him after he moved across the country for her. Ouch. Then there was Faye, who basically could not make up her mind about whether she wanted him or not, eventually deciding not because she wasn't ready. Then there was Dora, which started out well enough, then turned into a clusterfuck of insecurities and recriminations. Considering how that ended, it's a minor miracle they're still friends.

Since Dora, there's been Padma, which amounted to a short fling because of Padma's family obligations on the other side of the country. Then a one-night stand with Delilah, which would have been fine by itself if Marten had been happy with it, but he wasn't - he'd been hoping for more. Since then there have been no serious prospects on the horizon (unless you count Emily, which has problems because of the work relationship and Emily's kookiness).

Meanwhile, Dora's got herself a girlfriend, namely Tai, while Faye has been dating Angus since before Dora and Marten even broke up. Even Steve seems to be making it work with Cosette. The only other character with romantic troubles even close to Marten's is the notorious Sven, and he's only having issues because he's feeling love for probably the first time with someone who's in a relationship, and he's handling it poorly.
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For me, aside from trying to get Marten to cover his ass when he was trying to avoid an ex-girlfriend, the shitty thing he did was when Faye told him "Uh, dude, I have  a boyfriend," Sven's response basically was "So? I'm telling you that I'm in love with you, and in every movie I've seen with John Cusak and/or Ryan Gosling, you're supposed to run away with me no questions asked." When she tells him to fuck off with that noise, he gets pissy with her. He then reiterates his fuckarsness when Steve calls him on it later basically saying "Again, I don't give a shit that she's in a relationship that makes her happy. I did the grand gesture thing and I'm Sven Bianchi and why didn't it work?"

To wit: He wanted Faye and didn't give a shit what her personal circumstances were. The important thing, to him, was that he wanted her. Period. When she rightly told him to fuck himself, he doesn't stop to think "Boy, that was shitty" he immediately starts whining that it should have worked.

I can't read Sven or Jeph's mind so I could be entirely wrong, but I always assumed that was what these last two panels were. He didn't try to approach her again after that, and although he whined to Steve and I'd call that dumb/bad, I'd also call it normal. People are upset when they don't get what they want, even if they understand it's unjustified, and as long as they don't continue to be shitty about it I don't think it's particularly bad. Plus, while whining to Steve was continuing the situation on his end, it hasn't reached Faye at all and wouldn't if Cosette hadn't told Dora who told Marten who somehow will probably betray it to her. My point being, while being whiny is dumb, it wouldn't have really been doing anything bad, just having kind of a crap attitude the same evening it happened.

Also, while I don't know if Dora is the most toxic person (I think we could make a pretty good list for any of the main cast, including Marten), and while I am on the 'that porn thing was really shitty of her' side, I don't really see how it will make Marten any more/less forever alone than before.

I think cutting toxic people out is good, and I agree that toxic can apply to some people and not others (toxic to Dora but not Wil, for example), but I think jumping to conclusions and rash decisions and then declaring them (Marten)/otherwise being weird and dramatic (the smileyness and the secret) is a bad idea, and that seeing as she made the decision over a couple of hours, I don't know if I think even Dora thinks Sven's all that toxic. Cutting out a family member is a rather major decision, and while she's considered that she has to tell her parents, it doesn't seem like she's thought it through much (especially since 'don't tell Faye' has been added).

(ETA- not toxic to Wil was just an example. he may well have been literally toxic to Wil, as I don't think we've seen him in a while)
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Valeyard

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Also, if someone hurts and manipulates your friends

Again with this "manipulate" thing. You must be seeing things I'm not.

If it's about the womanizing, I don't recall Sven actively really doing much, if anything at all, to get them. Veronica made it clear she found him sexually appealing in her opening comments to him. And she spoke first. Then there's the other woman throwing herself at him at the bar, and he only seemed oblivious to it. This seems to be the pattern with him and women. And I'm willing to bet the same scenario is likely to be the case with all of Dora's friends that he slept with in the past.

I certainly don't see him trying to be manipulative with his recent admission to Faye. He simply told her the truth about how he felt. Him expecting her to jump into his arms was more of a social ineptitude due to thinking movies were the way life actually worked. His expectation came across as genuine than manipulative.

I know during his date with Hanners, there wasn;t any sort of manipulation

Maybe if people confronted him more he might actually start to wise up. Faye is hardly showing any sort of moral high ground by letting him "stew in his own juices." She should have just told him "Hell no. There's no chance at us ever getting back together after what you did. You hurt me." right then and there.

There's not enough confrontation and honesty in this strip. Situations wouldn't get so out of hand if they logically and rationally explained things to each other before they become a problem. If Marten would simply get Pintsize's personality reformatted they wouldn't have problems with him incoveniencing them with his perverted antics.
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Mafarfloune

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Good to meet you! I'm newish here, myself.

For me, aside from trying to get Marten to cover his ass when he was trying to avoid an ex-girlfriend, the shitty thing he did was when Faye told him "Uh, dude, I have  a boyfriend," Sven's response basically was "So? I'm telling you that I'm in love with you, and in every movie I've seen with John Cusak and/or Ryan Gosling, you're supposed to run away with me no questions asked." When she tells him to fuck off with that noise, he gets pissy with her. He then reiterates his fuckarsness when Steve calls him on it later basically saying "Again, I don't give a shit that she's in a relationship that makes her happy. I did the grand gesture thing and I'm Sven Bianchi and why didn't it work?"


That's a whole lot of assumptions right there.

His exact response was "Look, I'm being honest here". It could mean what you interpreted, just as it could mean a whole bunch of other things like : "don't freak out, I'm just trying to be honest" or "This is not me playing with your brains" or "Tell me a better reason than I have a boyfriend, be honest you too". etc.

As for his "getting pissy with her" (which is just the one panel with an angered looking face, in which he doesn't say a damn thing, just before another panel with a sad looking face), it could be much more of a response to the words "fuck off" than anything else, or a reaction to Faye walking away from a discussion he didn't feel was over. I don't think showing an angered face for a split-second when told to fuck off is any indication of someone's ill-intents.

As for the Steve discussion : it just confirms that he's a spoiled kid who hasn't quite learned yet that everything doesn't always go as planned. Plus, the Star Wars bit makes it sound like Sven is being tongue-in-cheek about it.


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To wit: He wanted Faye and didn't give a shit what her personal circumstances were. The important thing, to him, was that he wanted her. Period.

He doesn't know about Faye's personal circumstances other than she has a boyfriend. Which, IMO, shouldn't be a good reason not to pursue the person you love (unless you are friends with the boyfriend, obviously). And, seriously, for any one ever pursuing a love interest, as there ever been a case where the important thing was NOT that you "wanted" the other person? How is that a point against him?
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Near Lurker

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Also...why is she telling Marten?

I think that sort of speaks to her subconscious in a way - because this is sort of eerily reminiscent of the breakup.  "We're both sick of her shit," remember?  I think she sees more of herself in Sven, or vice versa, than she'd like to admit.
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sitnspin

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The person you are interested in having a significant other IS a good reason not to pursue them unless you know they are polyamorous. It is disrespectful to the feelings of the person you're pursuing. You are effectively saying you don't respect their feelings for their partner and are only interested in your own wants.

Plus Sven is being hypocritical since he has stated outright that he doesn't intentionally pursue women who are already involved.
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Valeyard

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Also, Dora broke up with Marten because she knew it was an unhealthy relationship. She didn't break up with because he got mad at her. She recognized that her insecurity was the problem and would probably always be an issue given the circumstances under which it started. The break up was the right thing to do in that situation and it hurt her as much as him.

Hurt? HURT? Tell me, who's in a relationship now, Dora or Marten?

(click to show/hide)

Yet Marten's own mother cared far infinately more about Dora's feelings than his. She actually comforted her while humiliating Marten at every conceivable turn during that visit. (Telling a waitress how big his dick was, showing his baby pictures despite knowing good and damn well he would NOT want her to show his friends the dildo pic.) Veronica wasn't the least bit concerned for her own flesh and blood's feelings or well being.

And yet Dora gets rewarded with a steady relationship with Tai, while Marten will be forever alone.

Id say SHE is far more of a Golden Child than Sven.
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Mafarfloune

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If Marten would simply get Pintsize's personality reformatted they wouldn't have problems with him incoveniencing them with his perverted antics.

He won't do it, and rightfully so : If I am not mistaken, robots, in the QC verse, have rights similar to humans. Sending pintsize to be formatted would be the equivalent of sending people to reformation camps or any other brain-washing organization.
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Valeyard

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"Crushed Jim's heart". Are you freaking serious? They went on one date.

So I guess you didn't see the strip where he found out about Dora and Tai?

Can you honestly tell me he was overjoyed at that revelation?

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