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Whatever happened to Pintsize?

41 (37.6%)

Faye's story v.2.0.?

21 (19.3%)

Student, Girlfriend, Librarian or some combination of all three? Claire's Dilemma?

11 (10.1%)

How do you come back from firing your best friend?

20 (18.3%)

Something completely new (give your idea in a comment, plz)?

0 (0%)

"Marten, how would you feel about having three dads?"

16 (14.7%)

Total Members Voted: 99

Voting closed: 04 Feb 2015, 06:23

[St.Clair]

REAL
BROWN
GRIMDARK

wanting to spend time in a world that's nicer than the one on all the newschannels is WRONG and needs to be CORRECTED

[MooskiNet]

It's pretty easy to get caught up in examination of how the story is told, the framing for a particular situation, the artwork, etc., and I think everyone (including me) has a take on how the story should go or be told/presented, but in the end it's because of the way that Jeph tells it and presents it that keeps me clicking the link in my browser in the morning (or repeatedly pressing F5 in the evening, depending).

Side note:  am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?

[aphanisis81]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?

Should it? and Would it? are super different questions. It seems not to matter to Marten, and that's cool.

[aphanisis81]

With that logic, Jeph is also a terrible author for not making Dale get pulled over by cops and treated like differently by a number of the white character, because how dare he include black character and not make a social statement of the injustices of African Americans. And why does he even include robots? They are just machines!

But Dale's race, whatever it might be, has never been so much as acknowledged, whereas Claire's trans status is an extremely important character detail and Jeph, via Word of God Newspost, has even said that he planned her character for a long time, is committed to doing it right, etc. That isn't to say I think there's any right or wrong to how he IS doing it. I like this arc just fine as it. But I totally understand the criticism.

[I never get the quote thing right, sorry](mod edit -- put in the missing tag for you)

[Fig]

It's pretty easy to get caught up in examination of how the story is told, the framing for a particular situation, the artwork, etc., and I think everyone (including me) has a take on how the story should go or be told/presented, but in the end it's because of the way that Jeph tells it and presents it that keeps me clicking the link in my browser in the morning (or repeatedly pressing F5 in the evening, depending).

Side note:  am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?

It feels more weird calling him Jeph because my natural instict is to autocorrect it mentally to Jeff, which happens to be my name as well. 

[WareWolf]

Apparently, the only way to know if Claire is trans is for her to tell someone, and she doesn't tell anyone she doesn't already trust. Which is probably why we don't see a lot of transphobia directed at her.

Either that, or, as has been pointed out elsewhere, these characters live in a better world than we do.

[DillyDolly]

So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.

Actually, the big difference with us and others in the LGBTQ community is we can blend in where ever we want, and it's usually easier to keep our orientation under the radar. But when we are out with people about being bi, we face as much or even more discrimination. You get people (gay and straight) who mistakenly assume we are in the closet, seeking attention, "confused" about our sexuality and/or the gay people who feel we are betraying the LGBTG community. Then there's the nutty people who believe that all bis are poly or want "one of each." This may be true for some people who are bi, but many of us. Even Dan Savage didn't *get* that being bi is a real thing for a long time—and he has admitted this. And *don't* get me started on platonic friends we come out to. Some of them are really cool, but a few that I've told (mostly gay/bi women, but some bi/straight dudes, too) seem to think it's an invitation to try to hook up with me.

So, I'm actually really discreet who I tell about my orientation in RL. I let people know on a need-to-know basis (close friends, family members, etc...).

[Mad Cat]

Strategic locks of hair are strategic.

[BenRG]

Apparently, the only way to know if Claire is trans is for her to tell someone, and she doesn't tell anyone she doesn't already trust. Which is probably why we don't see a lot of transphobia directed at her.

Either that, or, as has been pointed out elsewhere, these characters live in a better world than we do.

I think it's the former - Remember after the Post-Wedding Party snuggle, Claire tells Clinton that she is well aware of just how much danger she potentially may be in when 'coming out' to someone. Jeph just buried it in a joke about phobia of city buses.

[DillyDolly]

Side note:  am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?

No, I totally get that... But it's like do we say "the author" instead or use a last name or what. When you look at art of any kind—including comics—it's only natural to wonder what the artist/author intends and refer to them. It does feel weird to do on a first-name basis, though...

[lepetitfromage]

Of course not. But this is a comic that has developed into exploring the foibles of human interaction, primarily in relationships, and in most cases it seems the writer wants to try to represent "issues" that people deal with in real life that might not be written about as much in other fiction. So it's reasonable to ask for those issues to be relevant to the struggles real people face.

Let us not forget that in the time frame of QC, Claire's character and her relationship with Marten is still VERY new. There are plenty of opportunities for the subjects to be discussed, but I enjoy the fact that we are slowly and surely being introduced to Claire as a human being. Her struggles due to being in a smaller sub-set of human beings might need some more time to develop. When we met Faye, we knew she had some troubles. We didn't find out about her Dad until later. We meet the characters and learn about them as time goes on. Jeph has a wonderful way of introducing and resolving conflict by way of a slow and steady build up. I don't see Claire's situation being any different than that of other characters.

[gprimr1]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

Here's a better question... Should it matter? Why?

Well aside from the practical implications (since they are about to have sex it looks like) it would be interesting to know to learn something about Martin.

[Consilium]

Side note:  am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?

No, I totally get that... But it's like do we say "the author" instead or use a last name or what. When you look at art of any kind—including comics—it's only natural to wonder what the artist/author intends and refer to them. It does feel weird to do on a first-name basis, though...

I think a big part of it, is that Jeph doesn't put himself on a pedestal or anything. He seems like a relatively humble guy, from what I can tell. So I don't really feel weird about calling him by his first name, but then again I've never been much for formalities.

[Y]

I'm not sure how to read panel 5. He seems to look fazed, like how some things still can startle you regardless of knowing it in advance. Well as long that moment didn't last too long. Or he's just tired. But other than that I really liked this comic, so I almost was late to work trying to read all the posts.

When you sit down to a meal with friends and/or family, do you take time to remind them that, you know, many people around the world are starving and miserable and homeless and at risk of getting killed, raped, maimed, etc etc?  To put the occasion in the proper perspective.

Well my mom always lectured about kids starving in Biafra when I didn't empty my plate fully. I finally looked it up once and it turned out that country stopped existing 45 years ago.

[doglion]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

I don't think so. Claire has mentioned hormone treatments (hence the boobs), but gender reassignment surgery has never come up.

[Orkboy]

Question:

Has it ever been established if Claire had the surgery? I seem to remember her saying she did, but I"m not 100%.

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Side note:  am I the only person who feels socially awkward as hell referring to 'Jeph' when we don't know each other at all?

That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord."  Also because I think it's hilarious. 

[Xader]

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... 

[MooskiNet]

That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord."  Also because I think it's hilarious.

Actually, that works really well for me as well.  Mind if I borrow it?

[aphanisis81]

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... 

It was...complicated.

Also, more like a week and a half than a day.

[TheEvilDog]

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... 

Not quite, basically there was quite a few people who joined around the time Claire told Marten she was trans*. While the vast majority were pretty calm, some on both sides were pretty.....what might be the right word.....militant? Fervent? I suppose saying having strong feelings on the subject was something of an understatement.

I do remember one chap insisting on referring to Claire by male pronouns, because that was what she was assigned at birth, despite several different people and sources explaining why that was wrong.

What you call "Thought Police", either jokingly or disparagingly, are a group of people who have worked very hard to make sure that this forum doesn't turn into a cesspit like so many other "social sites" on the net. They've had to drop the hammer quite a few times, but in the end, this place is far better than a lot of other forums and sites I used to frequent.

[aphanisis81]

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... 

Not quite, basically there was quite a few people who joined around the time Claire told Marten she was trans*. While the vast majority were pretty calm, some on both sides were pretty.....what might be the right word.....militant? Fervent? I suppose saying having strong feelings on the subject was something of an understatement.

I do remember one chap insisting on referring to Claire by male pronouns, because that was what she was assigned at point, despite several different people and sources explaining why that was wrong.

What you call "Thought Police", either jokingly or disparagingly, are a group of people who have worked very hard to make sure that this forum doesn't turn into a cesspit like so many other "social sites" on the net. They've had to drop the hammer quite a few times, but in the end, this place is far better than a lot of other forums and sites I used to frequent.

Holy crap on a cracker, there was someone insisting on male pronouns? I don't remember that part of it. What a dick. There's having a different perspective and there's just trying to be hurtful.

[Pilchard123]

Well my mom always lectured about kids starving in Biafra when I didn't empty my plate fully. I finally looked it up once and it turned out that country stopped existing 45 years ago.

My mum once told her mum that she'd parcel it up and send it if (my) grandma paid the postage.

[hedgie]

There's a rule against discussing things like that.  Last time people asked which bits she had, a shit-ton of people got banned. 

Wow, Thought Police sure were earning their pay that day... 

We are guests here.  I would kick someone out of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing".  Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.

Oblig:  http://xkcd.com/1357/

Edit: Fixed grammar.  I hate when I'm not paying attention and fuck it up.

[Orkboy]

That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord."  Also because I think it's hilarious.

Actually, that works really well for me as well.  Mind if I borrow it?

Go right ahead.  I dunno what our Benevolent Comic Overlord thinks of the title Benevolent Comic Overlord, but I would imagine that he'd laugh, if he read it.  From what I understand, he doesn't read the forums often. 

Oblig:  http://xkcd.com/1357/

The alt text on that one is possibly the most insightful input on free speech I've ever heard. 

[eschaton]

With that logic, Jeph is also a terrible author for not making Dale get pulled over by cops and treated like differently by a number of the white character, because how dare he include black character and not make a social statement of the injustices of African Americans. And why does he even include robots? They are just machines!

While Dale was pretty clearly meant to be black in his first appearance, Jeph has altered his appearance (both his facial features as well as his hair) to such a degree that I don't think it's clear if he's black.  He could be South Asian, dark-skinned Latino, or something else.  Honestly it probably matters as little as Claire's bits, and there's no reason for it to ever be explored unless we see his family.  But in terms of the strip, Dale's pretty clearly just a dude with dark skin, but perhaps not black. 

[TheEvilDog]

We are guests here.  I would kick you someone of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing".  Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.

Hedgie, that alone deserved a like!

[AprilArcus]

Jeph stated unambiguously that Dale was African American in QA Dump #14

[Cyril]

WRT the AI discrimination, that seems simply non-comparable to me. AI Rights aren't a real thing and Jeph has never really hinted that they're meant as an allegory for real-world struggles. And even within the comic's diegesis, AI is essentially a manmade phenomenon (mostly courtesy of Hannerdad), a non-organic arrangement of sophisticated circuitry, whereas race, ethnicity, sexuality, gender identity et al. are engrained human traits.

I don't necessarily think all minority or typically-discriminated-again/non-privileged groups have to experience bigotry in-comic in order for the comic to be believable - I agree with the person who pointed out the thin line between social realism and tokenism - but if those AI incidents are the only counterexamples to Technetium's observation, then I think Technetium is on solid ground.

Depiction of bigotry doesn't need to have a specific real-world allegory or need to be a stand in for a particular flavor of RL behavior in order for it to show a general awareness. Where it's not thematically appropriate, even a rare mention does the job of showing that things aren't perfect out there - and I would put some of the aforementioned conversations between Claire and Clinton (and others) into that category of 'awareness without focus.' Generally speaking, QC is absolutely a 'better' world than the one we live in, without any desire or need to justify why that's the case. It's simply enough to show a mildly fantastic setting (as certain conversations allude, the entire world might not be that much better, only this little slice of it) without significant biases that are close to ubiquitous RL (and without the defensive structures that arise in the face of those biases) and posit that hey, everything is still pretty wonderful.

It's a pretty common argument that the best way for a creator of fiction (writer/director/artist/whatever) to 'improve' social conditions is to create art that acts as if these problems weren't problems and instead be inclusive (feature these types of people) and accepting (don't feature them in a way that draws undue attention to how they are 'different'). The goal, of course, being to normalize and add a positive spin to the way interactions are depicted between various sorts of people; the exact converse of certain types of cultural biases being reinforced by media depictions. This is in contrast to the argument that one should depict the conflict. QC takes one angle and it's one I like quite a lot.

In the same sense, some of the topics that aren't welcomed around here would potentially also show up in the QC setting without any judgement and only innocent curiosity as motivators. In theory, the questions - aside from some of the general shyness that surrounds much broader concepts like 'why we wear clothes' - could be asked (by appropriately nosy characters) and answered (or not) without a judgmental attachment. To some extent, that's what is being expected in every thread when someone brings up how Pintsize or (insert character prone to blurting things out here) might handle the situation if/when it arises. At some point we start to reach a level of fantasy that is a bit scenario-breaking, though. While QC is an attractively better world, it's still designed to be recognizable. Completely erasing every ingrained taboo/norm relating to privacy could easily stretch that verisimilitude to the breaking point.

[HeavyP]

That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord."  Also because I think it's hilarious.

I prefer "Jephzibah" - I don't even remember where it came from.  "Our Glorious Trollmaster" is also a good one.

[eschaton]

Jeph stated unambiguously that Dale was African American in QA Dump #14

Okay.  I don't read the QA dumps unless I'm linked to them, so thanks.  He doesn't "read" as black to me because of the hair texture.  But it could be straightened, or he could just have "good" hair naturally I suppose. 

[swapna]

Oh god, either it's my  Marten/Claire fatigue or.. I don't know. I'm turning into a grumpy old person.

That comic felt very artificial to me. Like, that's textbook how it's supposed to be - a few people made references to Marten becoming a Marty Stu, but I think that's only part of why this just doesn't ring true to me. People, especially in Claire's position, are vulnerable, but to expose herself like that (open to judgement or whatever the hell that's supposed to be) is like... It feels scripted, corny, artificial, plastic (especially since she had to stop the making out to do it) It doesn't 'feel' like people, which is pretty jarring considering Jeph usually is good at writing people and their personalities, but that exchange.. predictable. Not even heart-warming or anything.

I'd have preferred after-sexytimes-banter, a lot.

[hedgie]

We are guests here.  I would kick you someone of my residence if they were talking like that, after being given a metric fuckton of warnings, and it wouldn't be "thought policing".  Jeph and by proxy, the mods have every right to do the same.

Hedgie, that alone deserved a like!

Thanks.  And your reply was enough to make me back and realise that I had screwed up the grammar when I was editing it.

[Kugai]

On Monday we find that Pintsize has been switched to his 'Alternate Backup Personlity'


The world is in trouble

[Zebediah]

That's why I often use the term "Benevolent Comic Overlord."  Also because I think it's hilarious.

I prefer "Jephzibah" - I don't even remember where it came from.  "Our Glorious Trollmaster" is also a good one.

Jephzibah came from here - Masterpiece's autocorrect switched "Jeph" to "Hephzibah", and it just kind of snowballed from there. As things tend to do around here.

[eschaton]

That comic felt very artificial to me. Like, that's textbook how it's supposed to be - a few people made references to Marten becoming a Marty Stu, but I think that's only part of why this just doesn't ring true to me. People, especially in Claire's position, are vulnerable, but to expose herself like that (open to judgement or whatever the hell that's supposed to be) is like... It feels scripted, corny, artificial, plastic (especially since she had to stop the making out to do it) It doesn't 'feel' like people, which is pretty jarring considering Jeph usually is good at writing people and their personalities, but that exchange.. predictable. Not even heart-warming or anything.

I think part of the jarring difference in writing between the different arcs in the comic is when Jeph is writing from his own experience (suitably altered) and when he is writing something fairly alien to him.  I think every character represents an aspect of Jeph's personality tweaked somewhat over time.  Faye's descent into alcoholism was pretty openly alluding to his own experience, which is why it was so emotionally powerful. 

In contrast, I get the idea with Marten/Claire Jeph really wants to please his audience, but because he doesn't quite speak the language, it's not unfurling completely naturally.  Hence why it can seem a bit scripted and weird.  He's telling a story, but it isn't his story, it's someone elses. 

[Isyrion]

So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.

Actually, the big difference with us and others in the LGBTQ community is we can blend in where ever we want, and it's usually easier to keep our orientation under the radar. But when we are out with people about being bi, we face as much or even more discrimination. You get people (gay and straight) who mistakenly assume we are in the closet, seeking attention, "confused" about our sexuality and/or the gay people who feel we are betraying the LGBTG community. Then there's the nutty people who believe that all bis are poly or want "one of each." This may be true for some people who are bi, but many of us. Even Dan Savage didn't *get* that being bi is a real thing for a long time—and he has admitted this. And *don't* get me started on platonic friends we come out to. Some of them are really cool, but a few that I've told (mostly gay/bi women, but some bi/straight dudes, too) seem to think it's an invitation to try to hook up with me.

So, I'm actually really discreet who I tell about my orientation in RL. I let people know on a need-to-know basis (close friends, family members, etc...).

I hear you on that, as a bisexual man.  I VERY careful about who I come out to and so far only a small handful really know about my orientation (4 people to be exact).   I can't even come out to my own family due to my father hating (and yes I mean real hate as in kill them for being gay or bi) anyone gay or bi (or anything else other than what he considers normal).

Anyways lets get on a more cheerful topic, I bet the reactions of the QC cast to Marten and Claire getting it on are gonna be rather Epic.  Whats the bet on Tai literally squeeing so hard she passes out?

[SugarSparkle]

I kind of have an issue with how the whole story with Claire has gone. What makes the Martin-Claire relationship edgy/gutsy/controversial/interesting/etc is that trans people face a lot of problems that they shouldn't have to. At least in real life they do. I guess what bothers me is that Claire's existence in this comic, so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see (everyone she wants to be friends with accepts her, her family accepts her, the guy she pursues accepts her). Is this fair to the trans community? I am not trans or any other part of the LGBTQ spectrum, so I'm approaching this completely from the outside, but if I were to instead consider a different group that I belong to that is discriminated against (although I won't pretend it's anywhere near to the degree what trans people face), I would have a problem with a story about another character identified as being in that group and where the story basically wiped away all the struggles that members of that group face. By creating a story (again, I'd refer to it as almost being a fairy-tale) where a trans character never is shown having to actually deal with the kinds of injustices that real trans characters face, doesn't that cheapen those struggles?

I guess in the bigger picture of the comic, it seems like Jeph mainly creates characters that he likes and would want to be friends with. Homophobia, transphobia, racism... these things are essentially absent from the world of QC simply by the fact that they don't appear in any of the comic strips. Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types? I can understand why he would want to create characters that he himself genuinely likes, but it kind of detracts from the whole idea that Claire or this relationship is particularly special, and makes her brother's reaction about her telling Martin about her gender type kind of silly. Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

But why should trans-issues be highlighted in everything? Not all trans-people have those issues. And I think it doesn't help those that choose to transition to see every single problem they may potentially face be focused on in every medium, as if that's how it will go. That's why many people are scared to do anything about their gender issues. I would love to see movies, shows, or read books or comics that have trans-characters that are 'normal' and blend in and aren't focused on because they're trans. This is what most trans-people want; to just transition and blend in. Most of us don't want to stick out. I also feel that expressing the need to see trans characters struggle and face problems merely perpetuates stereotypes. Not all of us have the issues you may think we do. I personally have had a smooth transition, my family has been accepting, all my friends have been accepting, in fact people from my past that I've contacted since have been supportive. I'm not only completely passable everywhere I go, but I'm also quite attractive (or so I've been told quite often). I know I got lucky in a lot of ways, but I think a lot of other trans-people have been in my situation. Many pass and blend in (or go 'stealth'), but you don't hear about that very much. Even in the trans-community, those in my position are often shunned or we're swept under the rug and not talked about. I like Claire and her story so far because it's more relatable to my life than most other trans-themed tales that I've heard or seen. I think it's completely fair that optimistic stories be told alongside the tragic or difficult stories. Smooth transitions aren't just fairytales, just as passability and acceptance aren't myths.

[Aziraphale]

- A lot of people like more awkward undressing and find it sexy. The nervousness can be a bit of a rush, or the intimacy of knowing someone's letting you be there when they are nervous and that they trust you, or, if one's used to porn/movies/sexy sexy one night stands, the reminder that this person is really human and really there and not an airbrushed, unattainable thing can be sexy indeed too. I do cam modelling and sell some videos, usually custom, and my clients, especially regulars, love candidness, whether it's an awkward undress or giggling a bit or whatever.

So, the people saying it's unsexy/unsensual are, in my mind wrong on two counts, because it is not supposed to be sexy, and at the same time, many people would consider it sexy (do Marten and Claire? no idea, don't care as long as they're happy next comic).

Not sure if this is going to make sense, but here goes nothin'. For me, the part that I've bolded gets to what makes it sexy (to me). It can be hard to be that vulnerable with someone, no matter what your gender identity or sexual orientation or whatever. Maybe just speaking for myself here, but when you're in Marten's position -- someone isn't just offering consent, but putting themselves all the way out there, with all the trust and vulnerability that implies -- is a humbling experience. At that point, you've got a lot to live up to, because the implicit challenge of being on the receiving end of that kind of trust and openness (unless you're a colossal asshole) isn't just the acceptance of that person; it's meeting them from a similar place of trust, and putting as much of yourself into it as they are.

Like I said, not sure if that makes sense... just kinda how I've been looking at it.

[Bodolza]

Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal is about to be broken

Dude. <sub><mod snip>

Dude. - Mod.</mod></sub>

[BrusselSprouts]

I totally agree SuperSparkle. Implying that every trans character needs to have their transition be the focus, or even directly mentioned at all. Its the same with Gay characters. You don't need to focus on their struggles with their sexuality, they can just be characters who happen to be gay. Claire is it implied to have had some problems in the past, at least enough for Clinton to be protective of her. And there's elements of her character that could be traced to her being trans (being a bit of a  later bloomer,  having to work up the courage to have her ears pierced etc)  but that's not the focus. An LGBT character's job should be to be a character, not just to show people the struggles people in the community face. Not that there's anything wrong with those kinds of stories,  they are stories that need to be told, but limiting LGBT characters to exclusively have that role is... limiting I guess.

Sorry for the long rambling post that may or may not make sense.

[Aziraphale]

Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal is about to be broken

Dude. <sub><mod snip>

Dude. - Mod.</mod></sub>

Times like this it'd be nice to have a "like" button for the moderation.

[explicit]

Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal is about to be broken

Dude. <sub><mod snip>

Dude. - Mod.</mod></sub>

What happened? Explicit wants to know and is talking in the third person for no reason at all.

Times like this it'd be nice to have a "like" button for the moderation.

EDIT - How the hell did I make this mistake? What was I doing?

[Somnus Eternus]

So, I'm a bisexual man. Yes, bisexuals do not face the same amount of discrimination, but we do face it. But I'm also married to a woman and have kids. I "pass" as a straight man, and most people don't even know I'm bi. I'm not secretive about it, but I don't generally talk about it unless something brings it up.

Actually, the big difference with us and others in the LGBTQ community is we can blend in where ever we want, and it's usually easier to keep our orientation under the radar. But when we are out with people about being bi, we face as much or even more discrimination. You get people (gay and straight) who mistakenly assume we are in the closet, seeking attention, "confused" about our sexuality and/or the gay people who feel we are betraying the LGBTG community. Then there's the nutty people who believe that all bis are poly or want "one of each." This may be true for some people who are bi, but many of us. Even Dan Savage didn't *get* that being bi is a real thing for a long time—and he has admitted this. And *don't* get me started on platonic friends we come out to. Some of them are really cool, but a few that I've told (mostly gay/bi women, but some bi/straight dudes, too) seem to think it's an invitation to try to hook up with me.

So, I'm actually really discreet who I tell about my orientation in RL. I let people know on a need-to-know basis (close friends, family members, etc...).

Can I just tell you I love you for this clarification?  Because I do.  This is everything I've been thinking this whole thread exactly. 

[Smallest]

I'm only skimming, but regarding Claire's friendships and stuff being realistic or no- as far as I remember just Marten and Emily know? So if other characters are shitty (although they're a liberal gang, and I hope not because if it wasn't the springboard for character development and maybe even if it was, that would make me hate someone), they haven't had the opportunity to act on it yet. Also, I mean, Claire probably felt with both Emily and Marten, before she came out, that they would be okay. It's not like she came out randomly to people she didn't know (like Becky in DoA, although of course that's different)- there hasn't been a lot of space for people to reject her based on her trans-ness. And Marten has known Claire was trans for quite a while now, and had an idea what she had done to transition (she said at the lakehouse that she had HRT starting a couple years ago. Also, Marten has a better idea than us, probably, of what a level of transitioning would mean in fiction Northhampton).

So, anyway, that all in account, I don't really see how likely it would be for Marten to reject her. There is some amount- he could discover that, in fact, he wasn't sexually attracted to her, but he's Marten, so he wouldn't be a huge douche about it even if he fumbled. I don't really see how anyone else would reject her, because there's just Emily, and Emily is a fairy who is nice to everyone.

[Omega Entity]

In regards to the "having gay/trans* issues be the focus vs not having gay/trans* issues be the focus (i.e., characters that happen to be gay/trans)" argument, I think it's pretty polarizing, and not everyone's going to be happy no matter how it's handled. Where some will be upset that a portrayal is unrealistic if their struggles -aren't- front and center (which, imo, if not handled properly runs the risk of becoming a constant undercurrent of whatever media it's being portrayed in), there's also those that will be upset if a gay/trans* character is more defined by their status, rather than that which really -makes- them a character - the myriad factors (personality, likes, dislikes, appearance, beliefs) that makes them a full, well-fleshed-out person to whom the viewer can relate. Not that their status shouldn't be a part of what defines them, but it should be a small portion of the greater whole, and not the central focus.

So while I do agree with some aspects in regards that issues should be portrayed if not realistically, with some hint that they do exist, I also think that a character should be a character first, with their gay/trans* status being a part of that character rather than a gay/trans* character also happen to be a human/AI/alien/giant purple people eater.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense. Sometimes it's hard to get the ideas to extract from my brain properly. In other words, in like with what BrusselSprouts was saying.

[Baphomet]

I think you missed his point competely. Think about it like this: why did Jeph create Claire? Why did he introduce a transgender character into the comic? Just because? If that's the case, then okay. But if Jeph is trying to send a larger message about trans acceptance or to raise awareness of transgender issues (which I at least think it's obvious that he is), then to portray Claire's life as we've seen it so far is more questionable. No, we don't need super dark comics where super bad things happen to Claire. But this is what I was trying to put my finger on in my post yesterday: it's been too easy. It's not representative of what life is like for the majority of transgender people. The question then arises as to whether that's helpful to his larger goals, because if people who don't have any experience with transgender people or the transgender community read this comic, they don't even get a hint of those issues.

In regards to Jeph's point in creating Claire, not necessarily speaking to you in particular:

Obviously I can't speak for Jeph, and am not claiming to. But I think that just having a trans person as an important character in a piece of (relatively) popular media is enough of a point. Especially in a relationship with the protagonist(?). Obviously trans people in real life face serious discrimination. But a lot of what's helped curb that discrimination against other historically discriminated-against groups has been representation.  Discrimination isn't a binary state, it's a scale. There are people who are active in it, and those who have a negative reaction simply because of cultural norms but haven't ever really thought about it. Just having trans people show up in a public, positive way helps slide that scale a little bit farther. The more a person in the "shallow" end encounters the idea of trans people just existing and not being crazed deviants, the more they're likely to overcome their cognitive dissonance when, say, a friend comes out as being a trans person later. Then that's one more person publicly having the idea that being trans is okay, and potentially one more incident of exposure for another person down the road. Over time, progress is made.

Obviously this is a sensitive issue, and there's also the problem of tokenism. That problem is compounded because it comes from "the other side" from discrimination. If you want to find a reason to be offended, you probably can regardless on where you stand re: trans people. I am no expert on the subject, but my gut feeling is you need a certain degree of cultural saturation before including a trans person becomes tokenism. Focus on the struggle for an issue so out of the public eye might even be counterproductive. I don't know where that line is or how to judge when we've reached it, but I don't feel like we have yet.

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

Claire has never said whether she's had bottom surgery. She doesn't exist, but respecting her privacy is a good way to practice being decent toward real trans people. So, since she hasn't said, we shouldn't ask.

[Endellion]

I just want to comment on how excellence has been goddamn achieved with Claire's hair. And then move along.

Would you call that a blow drive-by comment? 

...

(K, one hell of a stretch but something called out for a pun. Probably the mention of Claire)

[AFTERGLOW]
Claire:   Well, I guess you're not a bicycle.
Marten:  Huh?
Claire:   You weren't too tired.
 

Oh, nice one. I'd suggest we pun in tandem but I lack the wit to do that.

Don't backpedal on me now!

I'll try wheel hard to keep up.

(fever riddled brain equals long delay)

[Technetium]

I kind of have an issue with how the whole story with Claire has gone. What makes the Martin-Claire relationship edgy/gutsy/controversial/interesting/etc is that trans people face a lot of problems that they shouldn't have to. At least in real life they do. I guess what bothers me is that Claire's existence in this comic, so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see (everyone she wants to be friends with accepts her, her family accepts her, the guy she pursues accepts her). Is this fair to the trans community? I am not trans or any other part of the LGBTQ spectrum, so I'm approaching this completely from the outside, but if I were to instead consider a different group that I belong to that is discriminated against (although I won't pretend it's anywhere near to the degree what trans people face), I would have a problem with a story about another character identified as being in that group and where the story basically wiped away all the struggles that members of that group face. By creating a story (again, I'd refer to it as almost being a fairy-tale) where a trans character never is shown having to actually deal with the kinds of injustices that real trans characters face, doesn't that cheapen those struggles?

I guess in the bigger picture of the comic, it seems like Jeph mainly creates characters that he likes and would want to be friends with. Homophobia, transphobia, racism... these things are essentially absent from the world of QC simply by the fact that they don't appear in any of the comic strips. Has there ever even been a single background character that didn't appear to be accepting of other ethnic groups or gender types? I can understand why he would want to create characters that he himself genuinely likes, but it kind of detracts from the whole idea that Claire or this relationship is particularly special, and makes her brother's reaction about her telling Martin about her gender type kind of silly. Why would her brother explode with that kind of over-protection if the characters live in a world where everyone is accepting?

That said, I like this comic and a happy ending like this can be nice in a kind of sugary way, I just wish sometimes the comic would approach these issues in a more challenging way.

But why should trans-issues be highlighted in everything? Not all trans-people have those issues. And I think it doesn't help those that choose to transition to see every single problem they may potentially face be focused on in every medium, as if that's how it will go. That's why many people are scared to do anything about their gender issues. I would love to see movies, shows, or read books or comics that have trans-characters that are 'normal' and blend in and aren't focused on because they're trans. This is what most trans-people want; to just transition and blend in. Most of us don't want to stick out. I also feel that expressing the need to see trans characters struggle and face problems merely perpetuates stereotypes. Not all of us have the issues you may think we do. I personally have had a smooth transition, my family has been accepting, all my friends have been accepting, in fact people from my past that I've contacted since have been supportive. I'm not only completely passable everywhere I go, but I'm also quite attractive (or so I've been told quite often). I know I got lucky in a lot of ways, but I think a lot of other trans-people have been in my situation. Many pass and blend in (or go 'stealth'), but you don't hear about that very much. Even in the trans-community, those in my position are often shunned or we're swept under the rug and not talked about. I like Claire and her story so far because it's more relatable to my life than most other trans-themed tales that I've heard or seen. I think it's completely fair that optimistic stories be told alongside the tragic or difficult stories. Smooth transitions aren't just fairytales, just as passability and acceptance aren't myths.

This was definitely interesting to read. I have always gotten the impression that the trans community is essentially "the most discriminated against minority group" currently. Similar to the #yesallwomen thing that was going around a while ago, I would have had no problem believing a #yesalltrans meme that said that virtually all trans people have faced extensive discrimination. Quite interesting to hear that that's not the case.

Alright.

[explicit]

The only surgery I care about her getting is lasik, because she's cuter without glasses. I guess contacts work, but apparently they're scary. (I can't find the page, it's in there somewhere)