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Whatever happened to Pintsize?

41 (37.6%)

Faye's story v.2.0.?

21 (19.3%)

Student, Girlfriend, Librarian or some combination of all three? Claire's Dilemma?

11 (10.1%)

How do you come back from firing your best friend?

20 (18.3%)

Something completely new (give your idea in a comment, plz)?

0 (0%)

"Marten, how would you feel about having three dads?"

16 (14.7%)

Total Members Voted: 99

Voting closed: 04 Feb 2015, 06:23

[Almateria]

I absolutely refuse to get contact lenses.  Sure, glasses are a pain in the ass to deal with sometimes but the thought of poking something that you normally don't poke day after day is just unnerving.  Also the thought of someone carving out my corneas with a laser is enough to send me into full heebie jeebie mode.  I like Claire better with her glasses, but I just happen to find people more attractive with glasses more so than not.

I have keratoconus (weird corneas; the wiki link includes a photo as example), and although my optometrist recommended contacts I refused to wear them for several years because I had the same eye-poking issues.  But then my glasses broke and I had to confront the fact that my vision was really fucked up and no new pair of glasses could possibly correct it, so I finally gave it and started wearing the contacts.  Horribly uncomfortable at first, but once I found the proper fit I got used to them.

Then I lost the lens for my left eye and had to get a corneal transplant, but that's another story.  True fact: once you've had a surgeon stitch a dead person's cornea onto your eyeball, then later remove each stitch one by one with a tiny needle, poking yourself in the eye is really no big deal.

I have Keratoconus too. None of the glasses they tried actually work, so I had hard contact lenses when I was a kid, the kind you have to remove with a plunger. They sometimes moved away from the iris, so when that happened I always got terrified it was going behind my eyeball cutting the optical nerve. So then when I was 15 I got a corneal transplant, but one stitch was on the wrong side so it hurt opening they eye so they operated on me again after staying in the hospital for a weekend. I guess the person I received the cornea from must have had bad eye sight too as I don't see much improvement in my left eye.

Wow. When you killed your brother, did you talk just... LIKE... THIS?

[Mr. Black Licorice]

Apparently, not even in fiction are LGBT people allowed to have nice things.

Also, really, I can't be the only person who has seen the Marten and Claire strips as breathers. They are stuck in between a lot of other drama strips. If their relationship was super drama too, the whole comic would just be DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA GRIMDARK.

It is no coincidence that a person who styles themselves as the Emperor has, by saying QC shouldn't be grimdark, made it painfully obvious to me that QC needs more grimdark.

The name "Emperor Norton" has historical significance... and it's actually quite funny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton

[Aimless]

Apparently, not even in fiction are LGBT people allowed to have nice things.

Also, really, I can't be the only person who has seen the Marten and Claire strips as breathers. They are stuck in between a lot of other drama strips. If their relationship was super drama too, the whole comic would just be DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA GRIMDARK.

It is no coincidence that a person who styles themselves as the Emperor has, by saying QC shouldn't be grimdark, made it painfully obvious to me that QC needs more grimdark.

The name "Emperor Norton" has historical significance... and it's actually quite funny.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton

Thank you, this is one of the best things I've read all week. There's an Emperor Norton on two of my favorite forums and in all these years I never once thought the name may be a reference to a real person

[TieDyeKat]

Looks like Marten's tamper proof seal is about to be broken

Dude. <sub><mod snip>

Dude. - Mod.</mod></sub>

Since Marten's tamper proof seal is equivalent to bottom-grabbing, I saw nothing wrong with it.

[bhtooefr]

Let's just say that there was something there that the moderators deleted, and there was something wrong with it. I'm actually surprised the whole post and the poster didn't get nuked from orbit.

[hedgie]

It's the only way to be sure, after all.

Honestly, I sadly did expect to see a fusillade of flying ban-hammers after the last couple of comics.  Either the mods have reacted far faster than I could see, or people have behaved far better than they have in the past.

[TRVA123]

ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.

Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.

I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.

[bartman]

Marten may have done this off-panel.  Indeed, I'm expecting he did, and the lack of his eyes traveling downward is an oversight by Jeph.  But it does make his "You're beautiful" come across as a bit disingenuous to me.  Not that he doesn't think she's beautiful, but as if he's saying it to be supportive and reassuring.  That his eyes not traveling south signals he's either uncomfortable to some degree, or worried she'd be uncomfortable with him doing so (which is a misread, IMHO).

The implication of what you're saying here is that if you didn't see it explicitly happen then it never happened at all, which is clearly nonsense as we've not had strip after strip of each character using the toilet in awful, explicit detail, and they're not all in hospital with kidney. bladder or bowel problems.

[Emperor Norton]

ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.

Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.

I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.

See, I at least get this (I don't agree, in that, it personally was amusing to me, to each their own), but at least it makes sense to me.

Rather than: Its not realistic unless she faces horrible because she is a trans woman. We need drama because Marten is being perfect (he's just being Marten, laid back and generally chill, there hasn't been anything that came up that personally threatened him in any way!). Etc. etc.

[jwhouk]

Remember what Marten saw growing up....

[Reaver]

Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom.....

[Loki]

With great care.

[TheRedMaiden]

There's also Peter Bianchi, and his dismissal of Dora's bisexuality as a phase... not actually gender type discrimination, but...

And, Meena had some off-screen discrimination as well, for racial discrimination.

I'm skipping like four pages of posts to phone in on this one, but I'd also like to point out Penelope's immediate belittlement of Wil's spiritual views, and her tirade in the comic following against anyone and anything religious. It's not gender/ethnic/AI discrimination, but it's still blatant hate/unacceptance of a group of people. Hatred does exist in this comic, and in some instances within the main characters (like Penelope). We just don't get the focus on them all the time because I don't think it quite fits Jeph's purpose in the comic to have them any other time than when he specifically wants to have the conversation about people who hate rather than people who accept.

Also, I really hate how much the term "Mary Sue" is thrown around. Not speaking specifically about this forum, but it seems to be rampant IRL about any character, which baffles me because I honestly don't see what's so bland about most of the characters it's applied to. It makes perfect sense to me that Marten is immediately accepting of Claire. Afterall, look at the people who raised him. His mother was open about her career and never tried to hide it as something particularly taboo to Marten (see little Marten holding a dildo pic). And I can't remember when Marten said his father came out, but it was either early enough in his life that it taught him that's just how life works, or he had no reason to see it as particularly unusual because of exposure to other things like his mom's career. I'd like in particular to point out the scene at his dad's wedding where Mrs. Reed was doing upskirt photos for her friend and Marten responded to being told to "be a good boy and look away" with an annoyed "Yes, mom," not necessarily embarrassed by his mother, but more childlike annoyance at something that was routine for him as a child. Marten was introduced to sexuality in a very different, unconventional way than most children are, so for him to be appalled by Claire rather than accepting seems like it would be more out of character for me. He was raised in a way that taught sexuality to be something very, very diverse, and coupled with the full knowledge of Claire's transition before even entering a relationship with her, there's absolutely no reason this part of the comic should have gone any differently. Him looking at her face rather than her body isn't an oversight, it's deliberate and moreover it's important because it's irrelevant to Marten, because he already knew about her and still entered the relationship because of who Claire is. He already thought Claire was beautiful and doesn't need to look at the rest of her body because nothing physical is going to change how he feels about the person inside of it.

[HeavyP]

Aish.  I think I'm going to have to stop reading the forums for a while, and I'm going to try to remember to make that a precedent when major plot events happen.

For what it's worth, I read this webcomic (and most of the thirty-odd others on my bookmarks tab) as a counter to reality.  It's a silly little story about friends doing their best to live their lives and be happy.  There are good and bad moments, but I don't argue when story lines are "unrealistic."  I like my media (books, movies, games, etc) with happy endings for the same reason.  It's not that I don't like to be "challenged" or that I can't "handle" serious, darker work, it's that I don't WANT to.  The world we live in is a maelstrom of injustice, hate, and general horror, with a few times and people that stand opposite that as bright islands in a black ocean. 

They're not my characters, it's not my story, and as one of an endless mob of readers, I have no more rights than anyone else.  That being admitted, I'm still going to say this: don't wish evil upon these happy figments of one man's imagination.  If you want to smile, then join me in cheering on our laid-back musician and the little red haired librarian in their modern fairy tale.  If you want darkness and grit, open your door and walk outside - you'll find more than enough of it in our real world.

[Omega Entity]

ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.

Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.

I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.

I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.

[osaka]

ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.

Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.

I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.

I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.

This might be an absolutely ridiculous POV since I've never had a relationship, but after knowing what happened to a friend in his first fumbled attempt at relationship (he was 20 at the time) and scared of what would happen in mine... It looks normal. Yes, it looks junior high. Turns out that Claire's date-fu might probably be at that "age", experience or however you want to call it (remember it's her first serious relationship), and it makes perfect sense to look like that.

At least to me.

[TinPenguin]

Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom.....

Why, with music and scented candles, of course.

[Omega Entity]

ok, from my perspective, as one of the people where the sugary Marten/Claire strips did nothing for them, it wasn't about drama, or a need for the characters to suffer, or anything like that. It simply is that I like to have a strip that interests me in some way. Either a joke, plot progression, something moving.

Jephs depiction of Marten and Claire's first date just felt like a repeat of the same strip, over and over, with small changes.

I've liked the last two strips because they are something DIFFERENT, something interesting. When Marten asked Claire out, that was interesting.

I think it was the 'Ice cream kisses!' comic that made me roll my eyes so hard that I nearly gave my optic nerves torsion damage. It seemed... ridiculously juvenile, more in line with what a junior high relationship would be. Then again, I despise PDAs (they weird me out, big time), and it's likely a side effect of me being well on my way to being an old cat lady.

This might be an absolutely ridiculous POV since I've never had a relationship, but after knowing what happened to a friend in his first fumbled attempt at relationship (he was 20 at the time) and scared of what would happen in mine... It looks normal. Yes, it looks junior high. Turns out that Claire's date-fu might probably be at that "age", experience or however you want to call it (remember it's her first serious relationship), and it makes perfect sense to look like that.

At least to me.

Oh, I'm not saying that it doesn't make sense. I just don't like that kind of super-sweet interaction. I have enough cavities as it is.

[osaka]

That I can understand. Happens with the part that went well of said fumbled attempt at relationship (It's a bit more complicated than "dude asks dudette, dudette tells him to fok off m9"). Dude has changed sport allegiances and everything. Started playing WoW...

I tend to troll a bit on their twitter interactions because sometimes I can't handle the sugar.

[Orkboy]

In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:

Do you hate puppies too? 

[Omega Entity]

Did I say I hated it when they're happy? No. I said I hate it when they essentially fall just short of putting me into a diabetic coma.

[osaka]

In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:

Do you hate puppies too?

Strongly depends on the puppy. Some of them I want to kick so far away they write a Dragonforce song.

[hedgie]

In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:

Do you hate puppies too?

I'm more of a cat person.

[Cyril]

Claire's existence in this comic so far, is like a fairy-tale reality for trans people. Everything seems to be going the way that most trans people would want but few actually see

Which makes exactly one depiction of that in any medium, film, tv show, cartoon, or even book that I know of.

One.

I think.. we deserve that fairy-tale just once. And it does happen like that in reality, sometimes, just as some girls are princesses (which I suspect is over-rated).

That's kind of what I was going with before. I mean, sure, there will inevitably be 'normal' relationship drama, but drawing attention to how unrealistic a good beginning is only underlines how a minor change in the setting 'people are accepting and react in a less than catastrophic way after being given ample and explicit warning' creates the appearance of a massively unrealistic outcome.

On the other hand the trajectory of the relationship to date has been one that should either be an epilogue (i.e. not part of the actual story, and is summed up by 'and they lived happily ever after') or be the sort of thing that happens to minor characters where you just don't care about the little drama bits. Except for Claire's identity, the whole thing is very saccharine and flat -- by no means unrealistic for the way the first stages of a courtship reads to the rest of the world, but no more interesting for all that. I think a lot of us who've been reading this forever are pretty happy to get a 'victory' arc for Marten but I can totally see being a little bit done with hitting the same note over and over again (which is so odd to say since the Faye arc is all the counterpoint we should need right now).

[TheRedMaiden]

I like my media (books, movies, games, etc) with happy endings for the same reason.  It's not that I don't like to be "challenged" or that I can't "handle" serious, darker work, it's that I don't WANT to.

Yes! That's the exact reason for the things I read, too. It doesn't make me immature for not "being able to handle" the darker stuff, but I'm not going to actively partake of a media I know is only going to depress me, when I can be happy an amused instead. That's why I watch Disney and comedies rather than movies who are setup to make you feel sad. Incidentally, that's also why I feel the "kill the dog" tactic in a lot of movies and stories is a cheap shot for directors and writers who can't think of something to earn genuine emotion out of audiences, and the same goes for jump scares in horror movies.

But I digress. As already stated, I'm glad the comic went this way, and I don't think the challenges for trans people are dismissed at all, but there's no reason for it to be shown in these circumstances, because the only people Claire could face that from is the people she tells, and she's extremely careful about that, too. Notice she's only told Marten and Emily. And while she's given Marten permission to tell others if they happen to ask, I think she also trusts him to have a similar judge of character to hers where he'll be selective with who he actually answers truthfully.

[ReindeerFlotilla]

It's the only way to be sure, after all.

Honestly, I sadly did expect to see a fusillade of flying ban-hammers after the last couple of comics.  Either the mods have reacted far faster than I could see, or people have behaved far better than they have in the past.

Given what Friday's strip implies, I was surprised how long this thread went without going there. It is a very clever bit of writing around the subject--almost too clever, but not quite. It implies exactly what you think it does. If two of you disagree, there's nothing to validate one position over the other. Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.

[TheEvilDog]

In response to everyone who hates it when comic characters are happy:

Do you hate puppies too?

There's a difference between being happy and Wilford Brimley doing an advert about Diabetes because they've so sickeningly sweet.

[de_la_Nae]

We could give you Brimley's The Thing performance instead, but that really goes a bit back into that stupid edit I posted earlier if we're not careful.

[WareWolf]

Marten was introduced to sexuality in a very different, unconventional way than most children are, so for him to be appalled by Claire rather than accepting seems like it would be more out of character for me. He was raised in a way that taught sexuality to be something very, very diverse, and coupled with the full knowledge of Claire's transition before even entering a relationship with her, there's absolutely no reason this part of the comic should have gone any differently.

This is a really good point that had not occurred to me. Thanks for that.

[explicit]

I hate puppies. I hate how cute and awesome they are. They make me want to vomit rainbows.

[WareWolf]

Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.

Bannerdammerung?

[Omega Entity]

Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.

Bannerdammerung?

Ragbanrok?

[BenRG]

They make me want to vomit rainbows.

Cool! You can actually do that?!? *Runs off to OD on puppies*

[MrNumbers]

They make me want to vomit rainbows.

Cool! You can actually do that?!?

Sure you can. Skittles and Ipecac.

[Loki]

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

Now that you mention it, this went much much better than when Marten and Claire started dating. Many thanks to all the new people for being decent.

[Undrneath]

Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom.....

I imagine she gets a daily colonic.

[HannahRose]

The last few pages of this thread are why I stayed away from the forums for so long. Apparently, at least according to many of the people commenting here, a story can't be good unless everything is blowing up in everyone's faces all the damn time. I mean seriously, why the hell do so many people seem to have a problem with Claire actually finding somebody who DOESN'T make a big deal out of her being trans*? Why can't she just enjoy herself for at least a few days (yeah, they've only officially been dating for like 4 days) before people start whining about how horrible happiness is?

As far as I'm concerned, Jeph has done a great job of *not* making Claire a series of issues, and letting her develop as her own character without being a mouth piece for a single issue. That's rare to see, even in comics written by trans* people, about trans* people. If you people want to read about trans* drama, then go read one of those, but please stop complaining about Claire, reading about her is like an oasis in a desert of hard times, and no, sadly I am not exaggerating.

Ugh... Note to self: The next time I'm happy about something that happens in this comic, avoid reading the comments in these forums for at least a week afterward. They're just chock full of people who apparently can't stand a little bit of optimism, or for a trans* character's life to be filled with anything other than misery and hard times.



Edit: Before I try to avoid the forums for the next week, I should clarify that my little rant was about the people who are complaining that the situation between Claire and Marten isn't "realistic", or about how they apparently feel that this was a wasted opportunity to showcase something trans* people deal with a lot (rejection). It was not about the people who are just complaining about a lack of drama in the comic in general (Claireten's date was "too sweet" or something along those lines), although frankly I also think that those people are just as wrong, since the SS Fangus hitting a freakin' iceberg in the middle of the arctic ocean should have been more than enough to satisfy, but I digress. This kind of thing does happen, albeit rarely, and it's nice to see it portrayed in such a popular webcomic, happening to a prominent character that so many people hold dear.

[explicit]

Now that you mention it, this went much much better than when Marten and Claire started dating. Many thanks to all the new people for being decent.

Great, now I have to start acting like an asshole. You did this.

[explicit]

For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.

Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.

[Half Empty Coffee Cup]

For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.

Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.

*sob* We learned it from you! We learned it from YOU!

[ReindeerFlotilla]

Between n00bs and trolls I expected a ban-splosion, or perhaps even a banopocalypse.

Bannerdammerung?

Ragbanrok?

Gentle-persons, you win. I proudly present you one internet. Each. Use it wisely.

[TheEvilDog]

For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.

Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.

*Sniffs the air* Well I found the biggest source of the stench, for they who started it, farted it.

[explicit]

You take that back, I'll follow you home after work and poop in your driveway!

[Aziraphale]

Speaking of poop i've always been curious as to how Hanners handles the bathroom.....

I imagine she gets a daily colonic.

I imagine that there's exactly one transporter device on Dr. Ellicott-Chatham's space station, and it's probably set aside for Hanners' personal use.

[cesium133]

For my next order of business I will now deviously insult you all.

Man this thread sure is smelly, what with all the smelly people here.

This thread has no nose!

[ReindeerFlotilla]

The last few pages of this thread are why I stayed away from the forums for so long. Apparently, at least according to many of the people commenting here, a story can't be good unless everything is blowing up in everyone's faces all the damn time.

A story can't be good unless something blows up. No plot = no story. Plot = character + conflict. No conflict = no plot = no story.

Everything, OTOH, doesn't have to blow up. Conflict doesn't have to signal the dissolution of the relationship. Mad About You did this well. There is a certain point where tension becomes melodrama. This point is best avoided (unless you are writing for CSI or Law and Order).

Claire showed Marten something. What that thing was doesn't matter. What matters is the showing was emotionally difficult. Claure felt something was at risk.

Claire = character.
Claire's desire to go "any further" + Claire's perception that going further was a risk = conflict.
Claire + Claire's desire/risk = plot.

The problem I'm hearing is that the plot did not grow into a deeper conflict. It could have. Marten could have said something well meaning but using poorly chosen words for example. Instead, the plot had a happy ending.

This is not CSI.

Jeph had 4 drama balls in the air. He just put a very dramatic one down. There's a potentially dramatic one still spinning. The other two are both romantic. One has the potential for absurd hijinks. Logically, injecting more absurd into the remaining one is probably a bit much. There's no need for overt conflict at this point. (Keep in mind that in laying the Faye's drinking issue down, Jeph created a new drama ball he hasn't picked up yet. And nothing says he's resolved this one. It's not in the air at the moment.)

Given that QC isn't really about overt conflict, that seems about right.

[hedgie]

I imagine that there's exactly one transporter device on Dr. Ellicott-Chatham's space station, and it's probably set aside for Hanners' personal use.

"Station, beam $waste directly from me and into the sun.

[DrClef]

I don't want things to blow up all the time. I want Marten to act like Marten. I want him to be a little snarky and playful. I want him to make dumb jokes and goof around a bit. I want the Marten who decided to scritch Claire's hair and back and make her go all *_*.  You know. Not necessarily Marten at his worst. Marten at his best.

Strip 2808 comes to mind. Like 2891, Marten is LITERALLY reading off of the "how a guy dating a trans woman is supposed to act" handbook. Hell, 2808 is even structured like a, "POP QUIZ, MARTEN! YOUR NEW TRANS GIRLFRIEND ASKED YOU HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT DATING A TRANS LADY! DO YOU PICK. . ." 2891 feels like just another test to see if Marten passes the "AM I THE PERFECT BOYFRIEND FOR CLAIRE" test.

Which is a shame because there's no reason why Marten couldn't be just as open and understanding about the relationship while still being Martenish. Instead, the author seems to devoted to making sure that Marten haandles this perfectly that he's filed off all the interesting bits from his main character and ended up with a perfect reflective sphere that does nothing but bounce back the audience's hopes and wishes.

But the end result doesn't feel heartwarming or cute for me. It feels fake. And that's sad.

[Reaver]

I was not expecting so much  discussion of Hannerpoop