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Poll

Well, Valentine's Day is Past! What now?

The Domesticity of Marten, Faye, Claire and Pintsize
- 8 (9.6%)
The Talk, Phase 2
- 10 (12%)
Faye meets Keeper Hannelore
- 6 (7.2%)
Sam: "Come on! I need your help!"
- 1 (1.2%)
Dora Does Guilt-Trip
- 24 (28.9%)
Tai has no boudaries about employees' personal lives
- 13 (15.7%)
Clinton and Emily's "date" (because that's still happening, AFAIK)
- 21 (25.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76

Voting closed: 18 Feb 2015, 08:09


Pages: 1 ... 11 12 [13] 14 15   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)  (Read 87747 times)

ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #600 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:19 »

Why not just put up a sticky?  That way, people can refer to that.

Noticing the stickies on the board: So EASY a caveman could do it.

cesium133

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #601 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:21 »

Hey now, I rocksemble that remark.

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snarkyone

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #602 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:22 »

BOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #603 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:24 »

Hey now, I rocksemble that remark.



Oh. Sorry. I didn't know you guys were still around.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #604 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:24 »

Hey now, I rocksemble that remark.



It's official:  We've hit rock bottom.  I hope no one else takes things for granite.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #605 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:30 »

How about we clean the slate, and start over. I don't want to get stoned.

Actually, I do want to get stoned, but not the kind with rocks.

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #606 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:36 »

I realize that puns are the bedrock of the comic but bad puns tend to hit a stone wall and should never be shoveled in public.

 :clairedoge:
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cesium133

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #607 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:38 »

Sorry, I'll be gneiss from now on.
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snarkyone

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #608 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:40 »

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no one special

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #609 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:42 »

Ugh, all these puns are a basalt on my senses!!   :psyduck:

*ahem*


Do you mean like the stickies that are already up about the subject, that nobody reads or pays attention to?
a) I don't see a sticky about the definitions of "cis-", "trans*" and other basics.  It sounded that's what you were complaining about explaining for the umpteenth time. 

b) If there were (or is) such a sticky, why not just post a link to it when someone asks a question.  Problem solved. 

There may have been some surgical removals.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #610 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:50 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

All things considered, being accused of following either traditional masculinity or femininity is pretty damn insulting.

I tend to agree with Elizabeth Hungerford about the C-word. https://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/

Edit: I should be more clear. Hungerford's reasoning goes beyond the simple who's really 100% conformable with gender roles but it is the suggestion, along with the idea that trans people get to apply a label to another group that people are just expect to accept. They don't care for a lot of words people have applied to them after all.

I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women. I don't know if you read all the comments but here is one of her responses:
"The concept of a cis/trans binary effectively REVERSES the power dynamics between males and females on the axis of gender.

It suggests that a male person’s subjective and VOLUNTARY self-identification as a “woman” can nullify his experiences of membership in the class of people who are privileged at women’s expense.

Further, it suggests that subjective and voluntary self-identification can actually render him (now her) MORE oppressed than the “other” women in the class he alleges to have joined!"

Being trans is not voluntary. Whether or not one chooses to transition, identifying as a woman isn't a choice.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #611 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:51 »

b) If there were (or is) such a sticky, why not just post a link to it when someone asks a question.  Problem solved. 

Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?    Don't get me wrong, we understand how people would much rather hear it as a part of the narrative.  That taking it upon one's self to find out for themselves stems back to looking up a word in the dictionary you don't know how to spell in the first place.    We get it, we do.   Which is usually why we answer the questions for the first few thousand times.   But remember, we are human too.  Not walking wiki's ready to take everyone's query.     So before you slam us for being tired of pointing at the sign, put some effort into it.   It demonstrates that you're not just curious but serious.    And then when people have questions, they are a lot more thought out, specific, and welcomed.   :)

..... basalt.    That was good.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #612 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:53 »

Two Monty Python references in one thread, awesome.  Let's leave no stone unturned lest we get the pointed sticks out.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #613 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:56 »

Two Monty Python references in one thread, awesome.  Let's leave no stone unturned lest we get the pointed sticks out.

Only 2?  I must be slipping.    OR SILLY WALKING!!

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #614 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:59 »

Quote
...with a cis guy

Excuse me for being clueless about such things, but can someone define the term "cis" for me?

I assume from the context that it has something to do with having a traditional gender identity, or something like that.

All things considered, being accused of following either traditional masculinity or femininity is pretty damn insulting.

I tend to agree with Elizabeth Hungerford about the C-word. https://liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/

Edit: I should be more clear. Hungerford's reasoning goes beyond the simple who's really 100% conformable with gender roles but it is the suggestion, along with the idea that trans people get to apply a label to another group that people are just expect to accept. They don't care for a lot of words people have applied to them after all.

I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women. I don't know if you read all the comments but here is one of her responses:
"The concept of a cis/trans binary effectively REVERSES the power dynamics between males and females on the axis of gender.

It suggests that a male person’s subjective and VOLUNTARY self-identification as a “woman” can nullify his experiences of membership in the class of people who are privileged at women’s expense.

Further, it suggests that subjective and voluntary self-identification can actually render him (now her) MORE oppressed than the “other” women in the class he alleges to have joined!"

Being trans is not voluntary. Whether or not one chooses to transition, identifying as a woman isn't a choice.

Anyone that uses phrases like "Women born women" and argues that a word which describes people who aren't trans is somehow offensive, as if dark is bad description for the absence of light; is nothing more than a twatwaffle not worthy of your time, respect, or patience in the first place.   
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Neko_Ali

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #615 on: 20 Feb 2015, 08:59 »

And now for something completely different...
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #616 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:03 »

Free Arrakis?   You said completely different....

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cesium133

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #617 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:04 »

British diplomats must get so confused at U.S. Presidential inaugurations.

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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #618 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:08 »

I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women.

Anyone that uses phrases like "Women born women" and argues that a word which describes people who aren't trans is somehow offensive, as if dark is bad description for the absence of light; is nothing more than a twatwaffle not worthy of your time, respect, or patience in the first place.

thank you. *hugs*

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #619 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:09 »

Here is a conundrum for you. How can you tell if a person who normally is weird is acting weird? Is it "bluer than usual today"? Or "she's acting normal... that's weird!" In Emily's case, the answer is, of course, "grapefruit".

This may just be me but I'm sensing a trajectory here to these three strips that, to a greater or lesser extent, allude to Claire's trans status. I'm thinking that she's going to be outed to someone by mistake or someone will guess, Marten or Emily will confirm and, either way, there will be an awkward morning at the library. I'm thinking Tai who may, unintentionally, push boundaries tactlessly in an attempt to appear accepting. Tai then possibly sets off a chain reaction by talking to Dora without permission.

Actually, I could see Dora saying something rude upon being told what's up.

Yes, Dora may have a specific issue regarding Marten dating a trans-woman, no matter how non-serious the issue seemed to me at the time. We all know Dora has a reserve of insecurity and, even though Marten was kidding, Dora might still remember and fret on whether it was a cause of problems between them.

Re: degrees of normal: It's not that difficult, at least if you know someone, to be able to tell when something's off. Whether they want to discuss what's going on is something else again.

2324: the discussion after Claire comes out to Marten. I don't think that the "outing" itself needs to be problematic (provided someone doesn't say something utterly idiotic). At any rate, their first conversation was, in part, "Well, I'm not that out, but if anybody asks..."

Speaking of Emily and Claire: How ironic would it be if the problem didn't end up Claire being inadvertently outed, but Emily letting something slip on her "date" with Clinton? Especially since (as far as we know) Clinton doesn't know that Emily "knows," and there's any number of misunderstandings that could arise from that, some leaving Marten's trachea in varying states of disrepair.

Re: Dora... I doubt if she'd think much of it, one way or the other. She thought he was vanilla, and as far as we know, he's still every bit as vanilla as he was before.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #620 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:12 »

Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?
Welcome to retail.
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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #621 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:15 »

Re: Dora... I doubt if she'd think much of it, one way or the other. She thought he was vanilla, and as far as we know, he's still every bit as vanilla as he was before.

Well he may not be kinky, but I'll be you dollars to donuts our favorite firey redhead can come up with a practical application for his shibari skills. I think Marten would make a credible service top if he put his mind to it!

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #622 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:19 »

Re: Dora... I doubt if she'd think much of it, one way or the other. She thought he was vanilla, and as far as we know, he's still every bit as vanilla as he was before.

Well he may not be kinky, but I'll be you dollars to donuts our favorite firey redhead can come up with a practical application for his shibari skills. I think Marten would make a credible service top if he put his mind to it!

Or maybe it'll figure in his showdown with Clinton. "Behave yourself and MAYBE I'll untie you."

Unless Clinton's hand has an "untie" mode.

Or skitters off to get help, like Lassie.

This could get interesting.
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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #623 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:21 »

Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?
Welcome to retail.

Yes, I remember those fun days. "where is this item?" Slowly turn 90 degrees and look at the shelf immediately to my right or left. "right there?"

The worst example of that though wasn't technically retail. I lived in Ocean City, MD for many  years. For those that don't know, it's a penninsula, averaging about 2-4 blocks wide at most point. The number of people who asked me 'where's the beach?' is staggering. You can literally see the ocean 80% of the time you are out doors....
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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #624 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:23 »

Or maybe it'll figure in his showdown with Clinton. "Behave yourself and MAYBE I'll untie you."

That happened once!

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Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
« Reply #625 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:28 »

    i'm almost wondering if circumstances will lead to Marten and Claire at Tai's rave orgy, perhaps to "protect the library" in Claire's "BOOKS=SRS BSNS" mindset.
    while their a drunken student is going to mistake her for a party goer, ask her why she isn't nude for the orgy yet and in a good natured way "help" by yanking her trousers down, in front of every.

    maybe going too far for jeph, but it's a possible scenario[/list]

    Short answer: No.

    Long answer: NO NO NO NO NO.

    I hope that helps.

    I rather expected another "NO." I was reading that bit in the same voicing as that one part in "Bohemian Rhapsody" and came to the ending sooner than expected.

    Howling along with the wolves on YouTube is not weird!

    I usually only howl along with Warren Zevon.  :clairedoge:

    Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?
    Welcome to retail.

    Yes, I remember those fun days. "where is this item?" Slowly turn 90 degrees and look at the shelf immediately to my right or left. "right there?"

    The worst example of that though wasn't technically retail. I lived in Ocean City, MD for many  years. For those that don't know, it's a penninsula, averaging about 2-4 blocks wide at most point. The number of people who asked me 'where's the beach?' is staggering. You can literally see the ocean 80% of the time you are out doors....


    This.

    I worked at one of those chain record stores (back when those were still a thing) and I'm stocking the cassette tapes (back when those were still a thing). A woman walks up to me and asks, "Where are the cassettes?" I turned around, looked at the twelve-foot wall of tapes, turned back around and looked at the lady and said, "I have no idea."

    Or maybe it'll figure in his showdown with Clinton. "Behave yourself and MAYBE I'll untie you."

    That happened once!

    How did I forget that strip?!?
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #626 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:44 »

    Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?
    Welcome to retail.
    Oh if I was paid?   That's a different story.   But I'm not.   The only thing I can hope for is that by answering a question here or there, that one day someone won't try bash my skull in cause I answered their mothers question and she raised them just a little bit better.     Idealistic I know...    a girl can dream though right?
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #627 on: 20 Feb 2015, 09:53 »

    I completely disagree with this article. She doesn't believe that transwomen are real women.

    Anyone that uses phrases like "Women born women" and argues that a word which describes people who aren't trans is somehow offensive, as if dark is bad description for the absence of light; is nothing more than a twatwaffle not worthy of your time, respect, or patience in the first place.

    thank you. *hugs*

    That's something I've had to come to terms with myself lately (oh poor me). I spent a good long time feeling that needing a label like 'cis' was silly, hypocritical, insulting, etc. -- to be fair, someone who isn't knee deep in gender issues is likely to first hear that kind of terminology in a way that -is- silly, trivializing, hypocritical, or insulting. Eventually I just chalk that gut reaction up to having to get to the point where I'm understanding myself as being 'part of a group' instead of associating myself with 'everyone' and people who are different as belonging to 'groups' that need the labels. That's a shift that made it a lot easier to internalize legitimacy for any other group.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #628 on: 20 Feb 2015, 10:10 »

    Okay consider for a moment, You are somewhere living your daily life.   People keep coming up to you and asking a question, so you answer it.   And then more come, and more still.   All asking the same question or questions.   So after a while you make a sign with the question and the answer and hold it up next to you, yet people still ask you the question.  Over and over and over.    Everyday of your life for years.   Now you have to tell people how to read the sign less than 2 feet away from you?      Does any of that seem rational?
    Welcome to retail.
    Oh if I was paid?   That's a different story.   But I'm not.   The only thing I can hope for is that by answering a question here or there, that one day someone won't try bash my skull in cause I answered their mothers question and she raised them just a little bit better.     Idealistic I know...    a girl can dream though right?

    I was commenting on people being willingly oblivious to signs two feet in any direction of their line of sight, rather than comparing the entirety of you post to retail as a whole. thus why I edited it down to that particular snippet  :wink:

    That said, I can commiserate on at least the superficial level of annoyance of being asked repeated about something (and not just in a work setting), if not the experiences referred to by you, and I realize that I'll never completely understand as I'm an 'outsider', as it were*. But I do hope that things do get better for you, and everyone else that shares those experiences.

    *that I know of. There's a lot of things that I haven't worked out about myself, and who knows if I ever will. I am, in my own mind, a strange bird, haha.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #629 on: 20 Feb 2015, 10:15 »

    I was commenting on people being willingly oblivious to signs two feet in any direction of their line of sight, rather than comparing the entirety of you post to retail as a whole. thus why I edited it down to that particular snippet  :wink:
    You were, I was just taking it further, I needed a moment.   No worries :)

    I am, in my own mind, a strange bird, haha.
    No no, it's in our minds too  :clairedoge:
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #630 on: 20 Feb 2015, 10:59 »

    Sorry, I'll be gneiss from now on.

    We'll give you a clean slate  :claireface:
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #631 on: 20 Feb 2015, 12:15 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #632 on: 20 Feb 2015, 12:29 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #633 on: 20 Feb 2015, 12:42 »

    Global Moderator Comment I got some highly practical and constructive feedback about the forum rules for interacting with trans* people and will be editing them soon. It's not too late to contribute guidance or (please please please) bibliographies and links.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #634 on: 20 Feb 2015, 12:43 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

    Ranging far afield from the comic, but I'll bite once.

    Embrace whatever you like. I don't prefer black. I accept it because mo-fos gotta talk about "race," as if such a thing exists. But as it happens, I'm American. Period.

    Qualifiers not required.

    If you really have a valid political/social context that requires you separate me, and people like me, from the population as a whole, how about "Americans descended from the survivors of our shameful and horrifying slavery period?" Wordy, but it's got a lot of context.

    And that's all I have to say about that /Gump

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #635 on: 20 Feb 2015, 12:53 »

    We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #636 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:03 »

    We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.

    Probably started with "things I can eat" and "things that will eat me."
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #637 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:06 »

    We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.

    Probably. Some of it could've come from something as simple as knowing which mushrooms you could eat versus the ones that would kill you or leave you having hour-long conversations with the paintings on the cave walls. Some of it likely also came from being able to differentiate between members of one's own tribe and another. Not to say that those things are still necessary, mind you. And while I understand RF's irritation over talking about race, I'd posit that as long as the conversation persists, the other issues that surround it (not least of which is agreeing on the terminology through which the discussion takes place) will as well.

    Edit: Ninja'd by DSL on the classification bit.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #638 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:10 »

    We as a species have an overwhelming need to quantify and categorize everything and everyone. I wonder if there is some sort of biological imperative for this.

    Probably. Some of it could've come from something as simple as knowing which mushrooms you could eat versus the ones that would kill you or leave you having hour-long conversations with the paintings on the cave walls. Some of it likely also came from being able to differentiate between members of one's own tribe and another. Not to say that those things are still necessary, mind you. And while I understand RF's irritation over talking about race, I'd posit that as long as the conversation persists, the other issues that surround it (not least of which is agreeing on the terminology through which the discussion takes place) will as well.

    Edit: Ninja'd by DSL on the classification bit.

    I'm not irritated by talking about "race." I'm irritated by the pretense that race is thing that exists as something other than a means for the powerful to oppress, control, and destroy others.

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #639 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:23 »

    The base for that is ancient.

    It's modern day Tribalism.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #640 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:38 »

    Free Arrakis?   You said completely different....



    This is actually my cover photo on facebook you beautiful person you
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #641 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:41 »

    The basis for astrology and possession by evil spirits is ancient. Also incredibly stupid.

    I disagree with the rule about discussion of trans pants on the basis that the taboo involved is stupid, and contributes to the problem (among many other problems). I don't argue that point on the basis that people don't do discussions of everyone else's pants, thus creating a situation where their questions deny the humanity of the trans people.

    Which is what all of this stuff is, at the bottom level. Call it tribalism or a classification compulsion but it is--ultimately--an easy tool to make a human or group of humans into a thing or things.

    Because you don't have to feel bad when you fuck up a thing.

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #642 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:42 »

    That isn't the point, and I'm not holding it against you. The point is, there's literally nothing you could have said there that someone like me couldn't have found offensive. The only way to win is not to play. Except, if you refuse to play, everyone loses. So maybe, just maybe, it is incumbent upon me, as the oppressed party, to not give you a hard time for failing to beat the Kobayashi Maru.

    Just sayin'

    Maybe another point is that sometimes you will say something that offends someone else. If you then get "Hey, that offended me", you can, instead of going all defensive, just apologise, and only then start asking what caused the offence and why.

    We are none of us mind-readers. We will cause offence every now and then. Just see any hints that we did as a heads-up, a minor correction, instead of a personal attack, and a reasonable discussion is possible.

    I personally like to keep things implicit, I hate long disclaimers up front. Unfortunately that means that I occasionally get called on a possible reading I didn't mean to imply. In which case I am glad to provide a more explicit reading of what I meant ex post facto, and an apology for using words that can be read wrong.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #643 on: 20 Feb 2015, 13:58 »

    Salient point, but completely off the topic, which was that perhaps the people who are quick to pile on those who don't handle the social justice jargon well should back off a bit, and not be upset when the n00bs inevitably fail to beat the no win situation.

    Sometimes you're going to trip up, and say something you shouldn't say. Sometimes you're going to trip up and say something that can be easily taken as something else. In those situations, you do have to own the failure. But sometimes, especially with the jargon, failure is the only option.

    It's cruel, IMO, to beat on people for that. Being oppressed doesn't give license to be cruel. Cruelty begets cruelty, until, think this subject, the conflict loses all connection to what started it.

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #644 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:03 »

    Why not just put up a sticky?  That way, people can refer to that.

    Noticing the stickies on the board: So EASY a caveman could do it.

    I run a rather large forum for work. Among the staff we have a joke about stickies: The fastest way to make sure noone reads something.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #645 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:12 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

    Ranging far afield from the comic

    Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.

    I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #646 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:22 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

    Ranging far afield from the comic

    Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.

    I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.

    Emily's status as the token Asian is an issue for me, but I generally don't feel the WCDTs are a hospitable place to raise that criticism. Or, frankly, any of the "racial" issues the comic has. Since the horse isn't quite dead, I shall beat it a bit more: The only reason I brought up my aversion to "African American" was to underline this problem with the response to CM_albion's expressed frustration with keeping up with acceptable terminology. To highlight the fact that universally acceptable terminology is a myth.

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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #647 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:28 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

    Ranging far afield from the comic

    Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.

    I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.

    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I always saw Emily's oddity being unrelated to her being Asian, rather than being a function of her being Asian. In other words, she's an oddball who happens to be Asian, not somone who happens to be an oddball because she's Asian.

    Besides, if she were "normal" compared to most of the rest of the cast, with all their neuroses and whatnot, that would make her more of an oddity than her oddity does (if that makes sense).
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #648 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:33 »

    Why not just put up a sticky?  That way, people can refer to that.

    Noticing the stickies on the board: So EASY a caveman could do it.

    I run a rather large forum for work. Among the staff we have a joke about stickies: The fastest way to make sure noone reads something.
    Just like the syllabus in a college course.
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    Re: WCDT 2897 - 2901 (16-20 February 2015)
    « Reply #649 on: 20 Feb 2015, 14:41 »


    Accepted. I wouldn't have mentioned except that it is true and it was perfectly in line with my point. You don't hear about it much, because I think people like me are tired of the fight. But I'm not from Africa. I don't know from Africa. I'm from Texas. There's a lot of people like me who are really tired of being "qualified" Americans.

    As an American of Asian descent (who hasn't found a better term than "American of Asian descent"), I find this interesting. Should I start embracing "yellow"?

    Ranging far afield from the comic

    Today's strip went on about how weird the only Asian character is.

    I'm not sure what the best term is, or how it relates to whether you're othered (certainly seems like Emily's portrayed as being in a different world). But the discussion is definitely relevant to the comic.

    Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I always saw Emily's oddity being unrelated to her being Asian, rather than being a function of her being Asian. In other words, she's an oddball who happens to be Asian, not somone who happens to be an oddball because she's Asian.

    Besides, if she were "normal" compared to most of the rest of the cast, with all their neuroses and whatnot, that would make her more of an oddity than her oddity does (if that makes sense).

    I speak only for myself when I say I doubt the confluence of Emily's heritage and personality is a representation of author intent, or an author commentary.

    On the other hand, even Jeph admits that just because he didn't intend something be read a certain way, it doesn't mean that reading has no validity.  There are definitely issues with Emily. They reduce to the fact that she be summed up as weird and Asian.
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