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Winslow Meets The World! Who'll have the most interesting response to Winslow 2.0?

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Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)  (Read 80623 times)

Stoutfellow

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #200 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:05 »

I think he's talking about the heel of his left shoe, which has come loose. Perhaps "fer" refers to the nail?
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badlow

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #201 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:13 »

Jeez, may has issues, but her attack is unwarranted in any fashion.  Winslow is decent and was happy and simply shared that happiness.  May is bitter, and if the crimes were close to what we suspect,  may should be grateful that she is not a toaster.

I am not sure I am comfortable with the use of privilege in this situation.  Hannelore feels she is privileged,  but instead of moping about it, she tries to make others lives better
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zisraelsen

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #202 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:22 »

I, for one, think May and Barry haven't been scheming nearly enough.
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Dal Gurak

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #203 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:25 »

The only way Winslow could have avoided the resulting angry outburst would have been to quickly exit stage right before May could ask any questions. Really, his best overall move would have been to avoid May altogether for as long as possible.

This is the reaction my Social Anxiety Disorder generally picks - avoid.  Almost any kind of interaction with people terrifies me.  I'm terrible at picking up on social cues, and can so easily run into the sort of problem that Winslow did - there's a button that says 'Do Not Press", but he couldn't read that sign, so he pushed it.  Explosion.  Pain.  So yeah, I'll push a button and get a faceful of rage, and then hopefully (but only if someone is nice enough to explain it to me) I can translate what happened and what I did wrong so I won't do it again.  But that's just the one situation - there's hundreds more buttons out there, I have no idea which ones explode, and I extremely don't like the explodey parts.  So I don't touch them.  No friends, can't date.  I rarely post here because, as we can all see in this very discussion, people get heated about these issues.  And I'll see a moderator post an official "Careful there, pal" message and look at the original message and think to myself "Well, that was certainly not a nice thing to say ... but I don't remember that particular thing being explicitly forbidden in the Rules thread."  And that makes me worried that something I say will get me banned or at least scolded, because I'm not picking up on the implied stuff.  I have no idea if this very post is going to get flagged. 

The point I'm sort of struggling to get to is that I feel for Winslow here.  I hope his brain isn't as screwed up as mine is and he can get over this and learn from it and overall go on to have nice experiences.  But yeah, my gut reaction is also "Well, don't talk to her again.  Ever." 
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #204 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:31 »

Dal you seem like a good guy. It's ok to speak up. I'm sorry that you feel you cannot.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #205 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:34 »

Equally seriously, I'm wondering what Pintsize's reaction will be. Something like this? /image removed for brevity/
"So, why do you stop?"
"I think I lost an iron, boss"

?
I think he's talking about the heel of his left shoe, which has come loose. Perhaps "fer" refers to the nail?

Bit of context, this is from a Lucky Luke comic, in which the guy in the green coat is a professional gambler, trying to stop the inventors of the gambling machine. Along the way, they've lost their horses, and so he's using his henchman as a horse. Losing his heel, he comments he's losing a horse shoe (hoefijzer, fer de cheval).

The text is not exactly relevant, but it was the first decent picture of this I could find. My point was more of Pintsize, (like the guy in green) trying to take Winslow for a ride. (Incidentally, but that probably belongs in a different forum, the image is based on Louis de Funθs being carried around by Bourvil in the movie "La grande vadrouille", aka "Don't look now... We're being shot at.")

Edit: edited to add relevant quotes.
« Last Edit: 17 Aug 2017, 06:39 by Cornelius »
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swapna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #206 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:36 »

I find it fascinating how much people are angry at May - yes, she's mean, but let's be honest here. She doesn't know Winslow well. If an acquaintance came and showed off at my place of work, I'd also tell them to do that somewhere else; I'm not as abrasive as May, but I think not faking happiness and telling him to leave the shop if he doesn't want to buy anything is perfectly fine. To repeat: they're not friends. They're friends of friends.
She doesn't have any obligation to congratulate him, or hide her own bitterness and disappointment. He came to her place of work, not the other way around.
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TheEvilDog

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #207 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:42 »

@Dal Gurak
Don't ever feel afraid to speak your mind on here. Sometimes things might get a little heated, but what gets heated tends to cool down pretty quickly. You might see the mods make a post or go into "mod mode" but at the end of the day, they aren't doing that to make people feel uncomfortable, but to make the forum feel a more welcoming and open place for people to talk. In fact 99.99% of the time, the people here are pretty good and offer varying perspectives on the topic of discussing. We might disagree on some points but its still good to hear the other side of the coin because no one has the same experiences that you have gone through and thus will view things differently.

But know this, no one will ever make you feel unwelcome on this forum. We just like healthy debate and discussion.
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BenRG

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #208 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:46 »

I find it fascinating how much people are angry at May - yes, she's mean, but let's be honest here. She doesn't know Winslow well. If an acquaintance came and showed off at my place of work, I'd also tell them to do that somewhere else; I'm not as abrasive as May, but I think not faking happiness and telling him to leave the shop if he doesn't want to buy anything is perfectly fine. To repeat: they're not friends. They're friends of friends.

She doesn't have any obligation to congratulate him, or hide her own bitterness and disappointment. He came to her place of work, not the other way around.

But that isn't what happened, is it? She didn't ask him to leave because she is at work, politely or otherwise. She erupted at him, accused him of rubbing his good fortune in her face and is now visiting her friends and slandering him behind his back.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #209 on: 17 Aug 2017, 06:48 »

In all fairness, I think part of why people are angry with May, is because it's been somewhat disappointing for Winslow, so far. He's all excited, and the ones that should be able to really know what it means for him, have not responded in kind. It might be that his timing is off, I agree. But imagine, if you were to have been confined to one place, and then could suddenly go anywhere you want, what would you do?

Also, I'm not ruling out he'd just been passing by May's place of employment on the way from the library back home.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #210 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:02 »

I find it fascinating how much people are angry at May - yes, she's mean, but let's be honest here. She doesn't know Winslow well. If an acquaintance came and showed off at my place of work, I'd also tell them to do that somewhere else; I'm not as abrasive as May, but I think not faking happiness and telling him to leave the shop if he doesn't want to buy anything is perfectly fine. To repeat: they're not friends. They're friends of friends.
She doesn't have any obligation to congratulate him, or hide her own bitterness and disappointment. He came to her place of work, not the other way around.

Man, I don't know, if someone came in to my work, and told me he did something because he WANTED TO BE LIKE ME, even if it required a much higher income than I had, I would not in any way think of that as showing off. He literally says that by the way. "...I wanted to be a humanoid like you and Momo and Ms. Bubbles..."

 Also, why does your level of friendship with someone have to do with treating them with any level of respect?

She KNEW he meant nothing malicious about it. She straight up said that to Momo. Do you really think it is OK to completely bite someone's head off who has shown no malicious intent, who is clearly excited about a big step in their life that they see as making them more like you, because they possess privilege you do not and because of their level of friendship?

I grew up lower middle class (and at times much lower, especially after I moved out on my own, when I lived in poverty with a wife and 2 kids), and the entire idea of snapping at someone who came from money just because they wanted to show me something nice they got is abhorrent to me, unless I suspected their motives really WERE to show that I could not have, but we know AND May knows this is not the case in this situation.
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TheMadFool

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #211 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:20 »

In all fairness, I think part of why people are angry with May, is because it's been somewhat disappointing for Winslow, so far. He's all excited, and the ones that should be able to really know what it means for him, have not responded in kind. It might be that his timing is off, I agree. But imagine, if you were to have been confined to one place, and then could suddenly go anywhere you want, what would you do?

Also, I'm not ruling out he'd just been passing by May's place of employment on the way from the library back home.

Honestly, what bothers me most is not May's response (which is entirely in-character and believable), but other people's reaction to her response.  There seems to be a base assumption that Winslow's privilege is responsible for the situation, which isn't right.  May being a dick is responsible for this situation.  Making this be about Winslow's "privilege" smacks of victim blaming.

Oh, and Momo?  No, no it's not "fair" that May decided to vindictively chew out Winslow out of jealousy for his good fortune.  That's about as unfair as it gets.  I understand that Momo is a "let's get along" kind of person, but as a previous poster mentioned, her passivity and agreeableness is actively enabling May being a dick to Winslow, one of Momo's friends.
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ProdigalDumb

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #212 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:24 »

Is Hannelore rich though? Her parents are richer than god, sure, but she has a job. Even before she was a barista she had her online "counting" job, and worked as a freelance forensic accountant. She certainly has opportunities others don't, and a great safety net, but what proof is there she's rich? She lives in the same apartment Marten and Faye have been able to afford with Library Worker/Barista money - not exactly a gated community. To my knowledge she hasn't relied on her parents' wealth any more than Marten has with his own well off parents.

Beyond that - Winslow isn't a guy getting a new toy each week. It's been a while since I've read the archive, but I can't remember him asking for anything. He splurges once, doesn't get something that is top of the line, and is told to check his privilege. What's the right thing for him to do? He's an Apple product - they're known for the hardware going obsolete in a couple of years. Should he not use the opportunities he has available to him, and get the minimum hardware needed to survive? Should he go on a Ghandi-esque obsolescence strike and refuse to get any new chassis until they're free to all? Or worse, is the message that Winslow needs to only associate with those as well off as him? I've seen a lot of posts saying that what Winslow did was wrong - what was the right thing to do?
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oddtail

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #213 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:31 »

I've seen a lot of posts saying that what Winslow did was wrong - what was the right thing to do?

I think what people are objecting to is that Winslow showed off his new chassis in a way that may come off as bragging, even if he didn't intend it that way.

The correct way to go would have been to only casually, informatively tell people that it's his new body, without gushing so much (at least, not to everyone and not without testing the waters a bit). In his excitement, Winslow didn't think who he was talking to and didn't think about their problems. It's a bit like being super chipper about your new car when talking to a person who's currently so short on cash, they have to save up to get through the month. It's not EVIL maybe, but can test people's patience.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #214 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:32 »

Hannelore noted when she got the job that she didn't actually need it financially, but only wanted it to try to become more normal. I have the feeling that while yes she has done what she could to make her own way, with the counting/forensic accounting, that she does not really want for anything. Because let's be honest, she straight up says she can afford the chasis and that isn't something a barista pay would probably allow, she has more money than that.

(Also there is a difference between Marten's parents level of well off (which I assume to be very well off, but not "I can buy anything without thinking about it") and Hannelore's. A giant gulf. Kids of the ultra rich are not generally surviving all on their own.)
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #215 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:37 »

I agree, you can count Hannelore as wealthy. It just takes a single phone call, on a whim, for her to have a local restaurant bought out. I imagine a new AI chassis is peanuts compared to that. Note also that she was literally gifted one by her dad before (the trainer boyfriend).
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brasca

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #216 on: 17 Aug 2017, 07:39 »

I find it fascinating how much people are angry at May - yes, she's mean, but let's be honest here. She doesn't know Winslow well. If an acquaintance came and showed off at my place of work, I'd also tell them to do that somewhere else; I'm not as abrasive as May, but I think not faking happiness and telling him to leave the shop if he doesn't want to buy anything is perfectly fine. To repeat: they're not friends. They're friends of friends.
She doesn't have any obligation to congratulate him, or hide her own bitterness and disappointment. He came to her place of work, not the other way around.

Having worked in customer service I can sympathize to a point, but how many of her problems are caused not by her ex-con status, but her bad attitude?  If her manager walked in and saw her acting that way she'd probably blame him if she got written up or fired.

And yes Momo gets it, but if Winslow doesn't she could try explaining it in a way that's not so alienating.  Perhaps they get along better becsuse Momo wouldn't put up with her shenanigans right after meeting her.
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TinPenguin

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #217 on: 17 Aug 2017, 08:03 »

What a lot of text devoted to saying "Both May and Winslow behaved understandably but thoughtlessly."
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #218 on: 17 Aug 2017, 08:38 »

What a lot of text devoted to saying "Both May and Winslow behaved understandably but thoughtlessly."

Except quite a bit of that text is devoted explaining why one party or the other behaved thoughtlessly.

Both mast be at fault. I'll not dispute that. And both reasons are understandable. Does that mean we should condone both, that's another question.
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ChipNoir

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #219 on: 17 Aug 2017, 08:43 »

In all fairness, I think part of why people are angry with May, is because it's been somewhat disappointing for Winslow, so far. He's all excited, and the ones that should be able to really know what it means for him, have not responded in kind. It might be that his timing is off, I agree. But imagine, if you were to have been confined to one place, and then could suddenly go anywhere you want, what would you do?

Also, I'm not ruling out he'd just been passing by May's place of employment on the way from the library back home.

Honestly, what bothers me most is not May's response (which is entirely in-character and believable), but other people's reaction to her response.  There seems to be a base assumption that Winslow's privilege is responsible for the situation, which isn't right.  May being a dick is responsible for this situation.  Making this be about Winslow's "privilege" smacks of victim blaming.

Oh, and Momo?  No, no it's not "fair" that May decided to vindictively chew out Winslow out of jealousy for his good fortune.  That's about as unfair as it gets.  I understand that Momo is a "let's get along" kind of person, but as a previous poster mentioned, her passivity and agreeableness is actively enabling May being a dick to Winslow, one of Momo's friends.

Is he a victim? He got told fuck off, something that May just does to everyone, and if they know each other, it's a fast fact that what May says and what he feels isn't always a one for one thing.  He wasn't told he should die, or that she hates him, or anything remotely all that damaging. Just go the fuck away, I'm not interested in your news.

May basically told him to fuck off, and y'know, that's her prerogative. Does that make her a nice person for it? Not really. But this isn't anything startlingly new.  He came to her with expectations, putting an obligation on her. Why is that her responsibility to make him happy and the cost of her own feelings? And let's not make assumptions here: We have no idea what her situation was pre-crime. For all we know she really might have been just a minimum wage person in an even shittier chassis than the one she has now. I still have sneaking suspicions about the nature of AI civil rights.

I really do think Winslow's childishness is making people a little more protective of him than he deserves. The immediate responses to his new body and attitude is "OH MY GOD HE'S SO CUTE I WANNA SQUEEZE HIM!" from the community, and that's gonna make...a bit of a bias maybe?
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #220 on: 17 Aug 2017, 08:44 »

There's this literary device, I think writers call it "room for growth."

With a Deluxe Regular Boy chassis and mild personality, Winslow could be a very dull, static character.  Jeph's wising him up.  He'll remain mild mannered Winslow, but he's going to develop some street smarts.  That education will be the stuff of several strips.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #221 on: 17 Aug 2017, 08:55 »

True, though, for me personally, the cute thing doesn't hold true. There's also the fact that he's always been the nice, almost timid, and naive personality, where May by default is abrasive and vulgar. Sure, we se some glimpses of kindness, and of a super nature, but hardly enough to do away with her overall image. There is going to be bias. But then, if there weren't, it would mean Jeph is doing a put job in writing his characters.

While Winslow hasn't been told to go off and die, I should like to point out she did stress his new body was just a toy. As mentioned earlier in this thread, with other characters, that would be deemed absolutely unforgivable.

Character development is on order for both sides, I think.

Edit: Corrected the autocorrects
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ChipNoir

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #222 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:11 »

True, though, for me personally, the cute thing doesn't hold true. There's also the fact that he's always been the nice, almost timid, and naive personality, where May by default is abrasive and vulgar. Sure, we se some glimpses of kindness, and of a super nature, but hardly enough to do away with her overall image. There is going to be bias. But then, if there weren't, it would mean Jeph is doing a put job in writing his characters.

While Winslow hasn't been told to go off and die, I should like to point out she did stress his new body was just a toy. As mentioned earlier in this thread, with other characters, that would be deemed absolutely unforgivable.

Character development is on order for both sides, I think.

Edit: Corrected the autocorrects

I'm still gonna hold my grounds that yeah, Winslow's wording can give that impression that he just went off and got a body on a whim.  It means far more to him, but May doesn't have the benefit of having seen Winslow's reaction to it when he first booted up into Regular Boy.

Like I said before, it would be like someone telling Claire that they went and got a gender reassignment out of the country on a whim, just because they felt like it and happened to have the ability to. I think we'd see an even bigger explosion from Claire there in that light, and I'm still holding onto some hope that Claire might explain that to Winslow.
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flondrix

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #223 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:15 »

Momo's got a legit beef with Winslow.

What has Winslow ever done to Momo?
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #224 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:23 »

The only way Winslow could have avoided the resulting angry outburst would have been to quickly exit stage right before May could ask any questions. Really, his best overall move would have been to avoid May altogether for as long as possible.

This is the reaction my Social Anxiety Disorder generally picks - avoid.  Almost any kind of interaction with people terrifies me.  I'm terrible at picking up on social cues, and can so easily run into the sort of problem that Winslow did - there's a button that says 'Do Not Press", but he couldn't read that sign, so he pushed it.  Explosion.  Pain.  So yeah, I'll push a button and get a faceful of rage, and then hopefully (but only if someone is nice enough to explain it to me) I can translate what happened and what I did wrong so I won't do it again.  But that's just the one situation - there's hundreds more buttons out there, I have no idea which ones explode, and I extremely don't like the explodey parts.  So I don't touch them.  No friends, can't date.  I rarely post here because, as we can all see in this very discussion, people get heated about these issues.  And I'll see a moderator post an official "Careful there, pal" message and look at the original message and think to myself "Well, that was certainly not a nice thing to say ... but I don't remember that particular thing being explicitly forbidden in the Rules thread."  And that makes me worried that something I say will get me banned or at least scolded, because I'm not picking up on the implied stuff.  I have no idea if this very post is going to get flagged. 

The point I'm sort of struggling to get to is that I feel for Winslow here.  I hope his brain isn't as screwed up as mine is and he can get over this and learn from it and overall go on to have nice experiences.  But yeah, my gut reaction is also "Well, don't talk to her again.  Ever."

You're doing fine! Please don't worry!

Our job as we see it is preventing flame wars. We speak up as early as possible, and that's what you're seeing -- gentle nudges as the discussion starts to drift out of its lane.

It's possible and welcome to be forthright as long as it doesn't turn personal. A good example is Akima's posting history. She's direct, uncompromising, and civil.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #225 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:24 »

Welcome, new people!
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sidestephen

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #226 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:37 »

It's kind of weird for May to blame Winslow for being a dick (sic) when she, essentially, is a dick herself. It's not like all her problems are direct consequences of her own actions, right?

At least Jeff is trolling us guys pretty hard with the Momo/May ship. Which is good, by the way.

p.s. May should have been working at Coffee of Doom. Her MO just fits.
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #227 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:37 »

Momo's got a legit beef with Winslow.

What has Winslow ever done to Momo?

May, not Momo.

Personally? Nothing. Essentially he went up to someone who's struggling with a crappy job to pay for jury rigged repairs to keep the falling apart car she's relying on to keep said crappy job and have a semblance of a life on the road and a guy who's a friend of a friend shows up at said work and say 'Hey, look at this brand new expensive car my mom just bought for me. I was tired of my old car so I asked for a new one this morning.'

Yeah, I can see why May would be testy that situation. Why it feels like Winslow is shoving his rich-boy privilege in her face that he's just given a much better version of what she struggles hard to have on a whim through no effort of his own. As readers we see and know a lot more. We have the luxury of seeing this from both May and Winslow's side and have knowledge the the one doesn't have about the other.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #228 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:38 »

The problem people are having is not saying one side or the other is totally in the wrong. They aren't. They both have reasons for feeling the way they did. They both made errors in how they approached those feelings.

The problem people are having is that in universe, it is being treated as all Winslow's fault.

And "Well, May is an abrasive asshole, so what can you expect?" is a terrible excuse for shitty behavior. "Well Faye is an alcoholic, so what did you expect?" "Well Steve is just a bro, so what did you expect?" "Well Dora is just extremely insecure, so what do you expect?"

Having a character flaw does not excuse your actions. Just because abrasive is her default doesn't mean that it is ok.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #229 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:40 »

Momo's got a legit beef with Winslow.

What has Winslow ever done to Momo?

May, not Momo.

Personally? Nothing. Essentially he went up to someone who's struggling with a crappy job to pay for jury rigged repairs to keep the falling apart car she's relying on to keep said crappy job and have a semblance of a life on the road and a guy who's a friend of a friend shows up at said work and say 'Hey, look at this brand new expensive car my mom just bought for me. I was tired of my old car so I asked for a new one this morning.'

Yeah, I can see why May would be testy that situation. Why it feels like Winslow is shoving his rich-boy privilege in her face that he's just given a much better version of what she struggles hard to have on a whim through no effort of his own. As readers we see and know a lot more. We have the luxury of seeing this from both May and Winslow's side and have knowledge the the one doesn't have about the other.

Bull, she admits that the problem was that he didn't think when talking to Momo about it, meaning she knew that he had zero malicious intent.
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JoeCovenant

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #230 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:41 »

I am so glad to be reading this thread and not needing to post cos everything I have wanted to say has been said.

(Phew! I'm not alone!!)  :)
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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #231 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:42 »

Having a character flaw does not excuse your actions.
Yeah. Pretty much that.

You may have lived a shitty life, but that does not give you a valid excuse to be a shitty person.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #232 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:51 »

@ChipNoir: Stand your ground, by all means. However, may I submit another analogy for your consideration? Suppose their is someone who is privately struggling with his sexuality, that had some friends that are out. One day, he decides he can no longer deny his issues and decided to come out. His family is accepting. Then he goes and tells his friends, one of which acts like it's no big deal and blows him of, and the second of which how's up at him, telling him to take his heteronormative ass, and his stupid fling out of her sight. Just because she had trouble coming out. Now, what does that picture look like?

I'm trying not to include either character's feelings and emotions, but it seems like in sorry, that is happening for Winslow. Let's see how Jeph resolves the situation, however.

@Emperor Norton:I agree entirely, a character flaw should not be seen as a valid excuse for ones actions.
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flondrix

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #233 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:59 »

p.s. May should have been working at Coffee of Doom. Her MO just fits.

Not with the new kinder, gentler Coffee of Doom.
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swapna

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #234 on: 17 Aug 2017, 09:59 »

In all fairness, I think part of why people are angry with May, is because it's been somewhat disappointing for Winslow, so far. He's all excited, and the ones that should be able to really know what it means for him, have not responded in kind. It might be that his timing is off, I agree. But imagine, if you were to have been confined to one place, and then could suddenly go anywhere you want, what would you do?

Also, I'm not ruling out he'd just been passing by May's place of employment on the way from the library back home.

Honestly, what bothers me most is not May's response (which is entirely in-character and believable), but other people's reaction to her response.  There seems to be a base assumption that Winslow's privilege is responsible for the situation, which isn't right.  May being a dick is responsible for this situation.  Making this be about Winslow's "privilege" smacks of victim blaming.

Oh, and Momo?  No, no it's not "fair" that May decided to vindictively chew out Winslow out of jealousy for his good fortune.  That's about as unfair as it gets.  I understand that Momo is a "let's get along" kind of person, but as a previous poster mentioned, her passivity and agreeableness is actively enabling May being a dick to Winslow, one of Momo's friends.

Is he a victim? He got told fuck off, something that May just does to everyone, and if they know each other, it's a fast fact that what May says and what he feels isn't always a one for one thing.  He wasn't told he should die, or that she hates him, or anything remotely all that damaging. Just go the fuck away, I'm not interested in your news.

May basically told him to fuck off, and y'know, that's her prerogative. Does that make her a nice person for it? Not really. But this isn't anything startlingly new.  He came to her with expectations, putting an obligation on her. Why is that her responsibility to make him happy and the cost of her own feelings? And let's not make assumptions here: We have no idea what her situation was pre-crime. For all we know she really might have been just a minimum wage person in an even shittier chassis than the one she has now. I still have sneaking suspicions about the nature of AI civil rights.

I really do think Winslow's childishness is making people a little more protective of him than he deserves. The immediate responses to his new body and attitude is "OH MY GOD HE'S SO CUTE I WANNA SQUEEZE HIM!" from the community, and that's gonna make...a bit of a bias maybe?

... I've been sitting at a response, but thank you for saying it way better. I also think that we do know Winslow a lot better than May does, and therefore know how childish/sheltered/friendly he actually is, but as mentioned - I don't think they know each other that well

The problem people are having is not saying one side or the other is totally in the wrong. They aren't. They both have reasons for feeling the way they did. They both made errors in how they approached those feelings.

The problem people are having is that in universe, it is being treated as all Winslow's fault.

And "Well, May is an abrasive asshole, so what can you expect?" is a terrible excuse for shitty behavior. "Well Faye is an alcoholic, so what did you expect?" "Well Steve is just a bro, so what did you expect?" "Well Dora is just extremely insecure, so what do you expect?"

Having a character flaw does not excuse your actions. Just because abrasive is her default doesn't mean that it is ok.

I think the issue here is he wanted something from her (validation, congratulations, whatever), and she didn't give it.Yeah, sure, she should have been nicer. There is no excuse for being an ass. What is okay is not giving him what he wants, because it comes at a cost that she's not willing to pay; she's unwilling to bite back her feelings and fake happiness for him. Fair enough.

As for other characters: Momo just lets her vent and cheers her up afterwards, and she hasn't seen the effects on Winslow. She knows that he basically did the same to her - showed up at her place of work, just to show off his new body and with nothing else to say, or with no interest in what or how she's doing.
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flondrix

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #235 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:06 »

@Emperor Norton:I agree entirely, a character flaw should not be seen as a valid excuse for ones actions.

"My surname is Li and my personal name is Kao and I have a slight flaw in my character."
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #236 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:22 »

If someone I was an acquaintance of, came up to me to share news about a lifechanging positive event.

I don't care if it is something I can not have.

I don't care if it is something I desperately want.

I don't care if it is something I feel they got handed to them easily.

I would not have to FAKE happiness for them. I would be happy for them. The whole concept that it is some kind of social burden to be happy for someone who had basically their life changed for the better is... bizarre to me. Yes, I might feel some envy, yes, I might feel that they are privileged and maybe a bit oblivious, but the idea that I would have to swallow those feelings and FAKE happiness for them... I want good things to happen to people. I'm not the only person that matters. Good things happening to others is good.

I don't have healthcare. I have legitimate back problems, possible nerve issues, that I cannot go see a doctor about. This is as analogous to May's situation that I think we can get. I don't know what is wrong. I might have a bulging disc. I might have a deteriorating disc. I might end up like my dad and be in 24/7 excruciating pain and have to be on morphine constantly for the rest of my life (whenever I can actually afford it). I don't know. I really don't. By delaying and being unable to go, I may be doing increasingly more damage that could be prevented. Who knows!

But I would never, ever lash out at someone who could go to the doctor when they needed to. That is what everyone should be able to do.
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Magniras

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #237 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:28 »

I'm going to double down on my earlier post, actually.

Momo knows Winslow. She knows exactly what he's gone through prior to this new body, and what it would mean to have a full range of motion.

And then, I'm going to triple down.

Bubbles is in the wrong here.  She met Winslow, and had to have seen how hard getting around was for him. The fact that she's now criticizing him for being happy abot being able to move normally is appalling, and abhorrent to me.

I hope, dear GOD I hope, that Hanners stops being Hanners, and rips all three AI a structurally superfluous new behind as Hannelore Ellicott-Chatham.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #238 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:39 »

I should be extremely disappointed if someone shouldn't tell May off. And I think Momo does owe Winslow an explanation as well.

Plot twist: the one calling them out on it is Pintsize.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #239 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:42 »

On a side note, I do think that Winslow doing something to help others is still a good idea. And he is friendly and a good person, he is mostly just naive.

I think it would be interesting for him and Hanners to set up a kind of repair fund for underprivileged AIs. They could contract with Bubbles and Faye for the work, this would tie them more into the new central plots of the comic, and would be something I think he would really care about doing once he got involved, plus more business for Bubbles and Faye, so wins all the way around.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #240 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:45 »

That would effectively be a great resolution, that ties it nicely together.

Winslow definitely needs to grow a bit; acclimatise to the wide world that's available to him now.
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blt

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #241 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:50 »

Equally seriously, I'm wondering what Pintsize's reaction will be. Something like this?


"So, why do you stop?"
"I think I lost an iron, boss"

?

A horseshoe.
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Magniras

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #242 on: 17 Aug 2017, 10:53 »

That would effectively be a great resolution, that ties it nicely together.

Winslow definitely needs to grow a bit; acclimatise to the wide world that's available to him now.

Except it would require Hannelore to access her parents money, something she's never given any indication of doing.  She had a job before COD, and I'd be willing to bet that she bought Winslow's new chassis with her own savings, not her parents'.
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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #243 on: 17 Aug 2017, 11:17 »

Except it would require Hannelore to access her parents money, something she's never given any indication of doing.  She had a job before COD, and I'd be willing to bet that she bought Winslow's new chassis with her own savings, not her parents'.
Both Hannelore's parents try to make up for their inadequate parenting styles with money.  I suspect any one of us could live quite comfortably for a year in the manner to which we'd like to become accustomed on one month of Hanner's allowance. 
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #244 on: 17 Aug 2017, 11:22 »

That would effectively be a great resolution, that ties it nicely together.

Winslow definitely needs to grow a bit; acclimatise to the wide world that's available to him now.

Except it would require Hannelore to access her parents money, something she's never given any indication of doing.  She had a job before COD, and I'd be willing to bet that she bought Winslow's new chassis with her own savings, not her parents'.

Except for the time she called her mother to buy out the restaurant that gave her friends food poisoning...
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #245 on: 17 Aug 2017, 11:25 »

Equally seriously, I'm wondering what Pintsize's reaction will be. Something like this?


"So, why do you stop?"
"I think I lost an iron, boss"

?

A horseshoe.

Please see also reply #206, where I explained myself a bit better.
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Emperor Norton

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #246 on: 17 Aug 2017, 11:26 »

Also, the way to do it is to set it up as a charity. Hannelore is meticulous, so she could do the paperwork I believe, then you approach your parents about donating to the charity (good PR, good cause, tax write off, and it is for your daughter's new thing), and see if they can maybe ask some colleagues to perhaps donate.

THat is different than just asking for money.

(Edit: Also I could seriously see Hanner's mom donating an absurd amount of cash because of a complete nonunderstanding of the operating costs of a small charity, which would make a funny strip).
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #247 on: 17 Aug 2017, 11:28 »

(Edit: Also I could seriously see Hanner's mom donating an absurd amount of cash because of a complete nonunderstanding of the operating costs of a small charity, which would make a funny strip).
Or for tax reasons...

They might donate parts and supplies, though.
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sitnspin

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #248 on: 17 Aug 2017, 12:01 »

Hanners pays her own way. She has a job. Even before starting to work at CoD, she had her own business.
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Cornelius

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Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #249 on: 17 Aug 2017, 12:09 »

Hanners pays her own way. She has a job. Even before starting to work at CoD, she had her own business.

True, she has a job. I don't believe there's even reason to believe she's entirely given up her counting business.

On the other hand, she's begun to realise that she does have some responsibility, on account of who her parents are. Last time it was mentioned, she was wondering how she would have to take that responsibility. This might be a good opportunity for her to be an agent for good, rather than the evil mastermind she dreads becoming if she follows in her mother's footsteps.
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