Jeph Jacques's comics discussion forums

  • 20 Oct 2019, 06:30
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

Winslow Meets The World! Who'll have the most interesting response to Winslow 2.0?

Momo
May
Bubbles
Faye
Pintsize
Station
Spookybot
Spathe Ham and Waffles
Purple Monkey Dishwashers
Mods, help me!

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 9   Go Down

Author Topic: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)  (Read 27456 times)

Nepiophage

  • FIGHT YOU
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 392
  • Just say NO to work!
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #50 on: 14 Aug 2017, 22:25 »

Does anyone have an opinion as to why the miscellaneous test in the upper left corner is "De Vermis Mysteriis", or "Mysteries of the Worm" in Latin?  Wikipedia has a page on the subject, where it's the title of a fictional book in the Cthulhuverse, but I don't see what that has to do with this comic.
I think it's an erotic manual called De Figuris Veneris (or De Veneris Figuris, as here), part of Smif library's massive collection of Victorian porn.
Logged
Quote
Pintsize: It is hard to get a lady to evaluate to true.
The two laws of internet interaction.
1. Whatever you say someone will be offended.
2. Whoever you are, there is something to offend you.

QuestionableIntentions

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 113
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #51 on: 14 Aug 2017, 22:34 »

What the hell, May?

Did she just call his new body a toy? If this were gender reversed there would already be a shit storm in the forum.

Wait till Claire hears about what you said, May.
Logged

Milayna

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 200
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #52 on: 14 Aug 2017, 22:57 »

What the hell, May?

Did she just call his new body a toy? If this were gender reversed there would already be a shit storm in the forum.

Wait till Claire hears about what you said, May.
Hmmmm. Claire snapped at Pintsize when he was blase about changing bodies on a whim. http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=3185 But the situation is different; May isn't reacting from a position of being trans, but of being poor. That context could make a big difference in Claire's metareaction.
Logged

BenRG

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,484
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #53 on: 14 Aug 2017, 23:33 »

In a lot of ways, I feel for May. Yes, Winslow didn't deserve to have her lashing out at him but there is a lot of things in this strip about which you can't help but empathise with her feelings of resentment. Winslow has a lot of options that she doesn't and, as a Companion AI, essentially is 'kept' by his human. May, on the other hand, has to literally work to keep body and soul together.

So, there she is, in a job she despises, mentally going through today's error log of all the things going wrong with her body and listing what repairs she needs to prioritise compared to her savings. Then Winslow walks in, wearing a factory-fresh chassis and treating the experience like he's bought a new cardigan. Yeah, I'd probably feel bitter too.

Onto another subject being discussed today: Yes, I think that Winslow is still a companion AI. I have seen no indication that Momo is not still performing her duties in that area. Even after she was in her new body, she kept on at Marigold to eat healthily and was a benevolent interventionist in Marigold's relationship with Dale. There is more to being a Companion than sitting on someone's desk and trying to stop loneliness or introversion drive them into depression. Sometimes, it means being a speaking alternate perspective. There seems to be a contract involved; it's very much a job and a vocation.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

foolsguinea

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #54 on: 14 Aug 2017, 23:34 »

Well, things got real with Tuesday's comic.
Logged

Storel

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,051
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #55 on: 15 Aug 2017, 00:16 »

Does anyone have an opinion as to why the miscellaneous test in the upper left corner is "De Vermis Mysteriis", or "Mysteries of the Worm" in Latin?  Wikipedia has a page on the subject, where it's the title of a fictional book in the Cthulhuverse, but I don't see what that has to do with this comic.
I think it's an erotic manual called De Figuris Veneris (or De Veneris Figuris, as here), part of Smif library's massive collection of Victorian porn.

Huh? No, the actual title of the comic is "Number 3546: De Vermis Mysteriis". UmberGryphon was wondering if anyone knew what the title has to do with the comic.
Logged

iwdy

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #56 on: 15 Aug 2017, 01:17 »

Wasn't May's face a different color? Or did I miss something?
Logged

BenRG

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,484
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #57 on: 15 Aug 2017, 01:29 »

@iwdy,

May had a repair that gave her a khaki face but she didn't like it so she prostituted herself(1) to Pintsize to get enough money to buy Derma (the technical name for androids' pseudo-skin) of a colour that matched the rest of her body and asked Faye and Bubbles to fit it.

Huh? No, the actual title of the comic is "Number 3546: De Vermis Mysteriis". UmberGryphon was wondering if anyone knew what the title has to do with the comic.

Nothing and that sometimes happens. IMO, Jeph was just telling us what book Momo is holding and perhaps reminding us that she has shown a definite interest in humans on a sexual level.

Now I think about it, maybe that's why she was in such a hurry to leave; either she was embarrassed to be seen by a friend holding that book, she wanted to avoid a possible conversation about it or she was... er... doing something with it before Winslow arrived.

---------------------------
(1) I mention this specifically because it emphasises May's bad economic situation; she has to commit crimes just to afford basic necessary repairs, let alone get a full chassis upgrade. As I've already said, I understand her bitterness.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #58 on: 15 Aug 2017, 03:33 »

all companion AI's we've seen have been small chassis
They've been in small chassis. The body is not the AI...or is it? There's an interesting question. Is Winslow the same AI in a different body, or does the new body change who he fundamentally is?

It changes everything about him; who he is, his purpose in life, how he can achieve that purpose.
It changes the fundamental relationship between him and Hanners and others around him.
Before, Winslow was a companion for a deeply troubled woman who couldn't handle many types of interaction. However over time, Hanners has worked on many of her issues. She's not "cured", but she is in a far better place than she was post her first appearance.

A companion AI feels like a stopgap fix to a deeper personal problem, to be someone to provide companionship to a human while also subtly working to help develop someone's interpersonal skills. Likewise, the AI is in a caring environment which allows themselves to develop. Pintsize works as something of a troll, to provoke Marten into developing past the milquetoast personality he had at the beginning of the comic. Momo worked to remind Marigold to get away from the computer and not to surrender to the hikikomori lifestyle. She still provides companionship through being a roommate, ensuring that Marigold wasn't lonely when Angus left. Both AI have grown in response to their relationships to their respective human friends.

But what about Winslow? In the case of Pintsize and Momo, outside influences helped their humans develop but in such a way that the respective AI were still an integral part of their lives. Pintsize is a troll and a disgusting one at that, but at the same time, he serves as an outlet for some of the issues Marten and Faye possess and as something of the gadfly. Momo still provides companionship for Marigold, as a best friend and as a roommate while at the same time, allows Momo to stand on her own two feet with a great deal of independence. But Winslow? Can we really say that Winslow has grown since his first appearance? Hanners has, in how she interacts with people and lives her life. When she became a main character first, there was no way that Hanners would go into the basement of Coffee of Doom to roast coffee. Now look at her. But Winslow feels like he's been left behind in the dust when it comes to social interaction and knowing what he wants.

Its too much too soon for a little AI who isn't ready for the change in dynamic.
Logged
Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

SmilingCat

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
  • You is friend or food?
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #59 on: 15 Aug 2017, 03:49 »

May's response was out of line. None of her problems were winslow's fault.

That said, I too have worked in a convenience store, so I can relate to May.  :-P
Logged

oeoek

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 194
    • friggin artists!
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #60 on: 15 Aug 2017, 06:04 »

Winslow reminds me of a person on the first day of a long awaited vacation.
Ahhh, peace and quiet at last! ... Uhm. Peace... Quiet... yes. uhm... Now what?

Apart from getting up under his own steam after falling over, I would say he has not really given much thought to being a full bodied boy yet... And the change seems to be bigger for him than was for example Momo, who already had the ability to shoot eels from a never disclosed aperture, and who was already able to fight and bring in a full grown squirrel.

I am probably reading too much into it, but Momo's light hesitation (W-well, I have got to get back to work) suggest mixed feelings at this point. Remember Winslow's despair when he came across her former empty shell? It spoke some of more than just casual concern. Is momo aware of that?

As for May, although not really appropriate, I can understand her speaking from frustration of her own present vessel. Still, I would expect someone looking that bored at work would welcome any any chance for more fun more heartily.
« Last Edit: 15 Aug 2017, 10:14 by oeoek »
Logged

brasca

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,293
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #61 on: 15 Aug 2017, 06:35 »

I might be more sympathetic with May if she wasn't responsible for her current state.  Perhaps she could've gained a function chassis at some point, but she chose to embezzle enough money to buy a flight capable model which got her sent to AI jail.  Yes Winslow has a benefactor, but she also benefited from Dale's patience and generosity. 
Logged

ChipNoir

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #62 on: 15 Aug 2017, 06:41 »

What the hell, May?

Did she just call his new body a toy? If this were gender reversed there would already be a shit storm in the forum.

Wait till Claire hears about what you said, May.

She's not calling it a toy, she's saying that she thinks Winslow is treating his new body like a toy. We've seen two Androids now that have made it clear that being a full sized human is a total paradigm changer. But May doesn't have the benefit of having seen Winslow's initial reaction to his new body.

I think Claire would agree, but would at least have the patience to explain this to Winslow. For her, this would be like a CIS person saying "Hey, I decided to get a gender change! Aren't my new boobs hot?" after Claire has spent years struggling to get to the point where she is, with therapy, hormone replacement, all the social backlash that's likely gotten her, and ultimately the expense and trauma that transitionary surgery is going to cause her.

It's...easier for an AI in short term thinking: Buy a body, upgrade. But that's 'now'. We don't know how old May is. She could easily be much older (By AI standards) and have predated the kind of luxury that even Momo had, getting an AI chassis with some hardwork. That might have been an interesting motivation behind such an extreme crime, rather than just "I did it for the lulz.".

Even if its not the case, this is an important part of AI political history, and Winslow's blase excitement can be read as just blithely ignoring her, and everyone else's struggle to get to this point. And Y'know, that is a responsibility everyone has to take. He's naive, but Momo still went out of her way to learn about their history. Winslow has no excuse not to have tried to learn that if he hasn't.


Logged

shanejayell

  • I'm Randy! I'm eternal!
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 654
    • Church of Yuri
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #63 on: 15 Aug 2017, 07:07 »

Well, I think May was being dickish, but I can see where she's coming from.  8-)

Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #64 on: 15 Aug 2017, 07:27 »

I might be more sympathetic with May if she wasn't responsible for her current state.  Perhaps she could've gained a function chassis at some point, but she chose to embezzle enough money to buy a flight capable model which got her sent to AI jail.  Yes Winslow has a benefactor, but she also benefited from Dale's patience and generosity.

So even though May has paid her debt to society in Robot Jail, she still has to suffer?
Winslow walking in and showing off his new chassis would feel like that, showing off. Gloating. A reminder of everything that May has lost.
Remember, May isn't living with Dale because they got partnered up through a service. Its because she's still a parolee and needs a secure and steady address to live as part of her parole. And her body is still falling apart and she probably still has to keep that as part of her parole. So the fact that May still has to jump through hoops for anything but an AI like Winslow can just ask to get a new chassis and gets to show it off, would be a huge blow to her self esteem.

Is she right to shout at Winslow like that? Maybe not.
Is she right to feel angry that her life has turned to crap because of her own mistakes? Yeah.
Logged
Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

Nunavuter

  • Notorious N.U.R.R.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #65 on: 15 Aug 2017, 08:03 »

A minor observation regarding the convenience store: it seems in the future they have to put tobacco products in cabinets so as to conceal the packages. Displaying tobacco products was banned in Canada in 2008 so the sort of cabinets depicted behind May are universal. A while back Pintsize had a stack of Canadian Tire money, and now we see that the convenience store May works at keeps smokes in tobacco cabinets. Something odd is happening in the Massachusetts of the future. What's next? Selling milk in 4-L bags?  :)
Logged

pwhodges

  • Admin emeritus
  • Awakened
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 16,162
  • I'll only say this once...
    • My home page
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #66 on: 15 Aug 2017, 08:08 »

Note that Jeph himself moved to Canada two years ago, so his perspective might have changed a bit.
Logged
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important."  (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?"  (from: The Eccentric Family )

Stoutfellow

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 233
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #67 on: 15 Aug 2017, 08:39 »

It occurred to me to wonder whether, in the QCverse, Massachusetts (and perhaps other northeastern states) have seceded and joined Canada, but then I remembered that Jimbo "ain't allowed in Canada ever again", so...  Come to think of it, how long has it been since we saw Jimbo?
Logged

brasca

  • Scrabble hacker
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,293
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #68 on: 15 Aug 2017, 08:40 »

I might be more sympathetic with May if she wasn't responsible for her current state.  Perhaps she could've gained a function chassis at some point, but she chose to embezzle enough money to buy a flight capable model which got her sent to AI jail.  Yes Winslow has a benefactor, but she also benefited from Dale's patience and generosity.

So even though May has paid her debt to society in Robot Jail, she still has to suffer?
Winslow walking in and showing off his new chassis would feel like that, showing off. Gloating. A reminder of everything that May has lost.
Remember, May isn't living with Dale because they got partnered up through a service. Its because she's still a parolee and needs a secure and steady address to live as part of her parole. And her body is still falling apart and she probably still has to keep that as part of her parole. So the fact that May still has to jump through hoops for anything but an AI like Winslow can just ask to get a new chassis and gets to show it off, would be a huge blow to her self esteem.

Is she right to shout at Winslow like that? Maybe not.
Is she right to feel angry that her life has turned to crap because of her own mistakes? Yeah.

Yes she paid her debt, but that doesn't change her culpability for her current state.  Someday Corpse Witch will have paid her debt one day and may be in a similar spot.  How many would be sympathetic with her plight?

While we're on the subject of privilege let's consider Winslow's benefactor, Hannelore.  She has the money to buy this since her parents are super rich and she can ask them for money.  She's only a barista because she wants to live a normal life to overcome her anxieties.  If she were disowned the situation would be quite different.  By May's logic Hannelore is a rich girl slumming it and yet she's said nothing like that to her.  Perhaps her admiration blinds her.
Logged

hakko504

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 311
  • Geek! Beep Boop!
    • My Profile at Boardgamegeek
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #69 on: 15 Aug 2017, 08:59 »

Come to think of it, how long has it been since we saw Jimbo?
Last appearance was in 2667
« Last Edit: 15 Aug 2017, 09:04 by hakko504 »
Logged
"Be excellent to each other!"
Bill S. Preston & Ted "Theodore" Logan

bhtooefr

  • Vulcan 3-D Chess Master
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,785
  • ⌘-⌥-⌃-N
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #70 on: 15 Aug 2017, 09:38 »

I doubt that Jimbo would've been deported from an annexed Massachusetts, though, to another US state, after Massachusetts seceded (assuming that Massachusetts or New England is now a Canadian province in the QCverse) - annexation changes things as far as permission to be in the country.

In any case, another factor to consider that could partially explain things with May: She isn't even a humanoid AI. She identifies as a fighter jet, not a humanoid, and likely deeply resents having to spend considerable effort just to keep her humanoid chassis functioning for her survival.
Logged

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,810
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #71 on: 15 Aug 2017, 10:13 »

There is a legal contract between the organic and the AI for a companionship gig, but Momo said the contract usually winds up superfluous as a genuine friendship develops.

Either party can close out the contract at any time (I think that's what Jeph said). It would be a major event if anyone had, and probably would have been mentioned in the strip. I figure Momo and WInslow are legally and practically companions still even as the relationships have grown and changed.
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

TinPenguin

  • Bling blang blong blung
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,114
  • Cogito ergo potato.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #72 on: 15 Aug 2017, 11:22 »

I am probably reading too much into it, but Momo's light hesitation (W-well, I have got to get back to work) suggest mixed feelings at this point. Remember Winslow's despair when he came across her former empty shell? It spoke some of more than just casual concern. Is momo aware of that?

Momo is a nice person, but I'm pretty certain the only reason she ever hung out with Winslow and Pintsize was because they were the same size and lived in the same building and there simply wasn't anyone else she could socialise with as an equal. And when you have a headful of social protocols, you need to use them on someone. But her horizons have broadened immensely as a result of her new body, such that even now that Winslow has caught up, she has already left him far behind. It's like the guy you hung out with in school because nobody else would play with you suddenly moving in next door and expecting to pick up where you left off.
Logged

Reaver

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 66
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #73 on: 15 Aug 2017, 12:41 »

I just don't get how everyone can see Winslow's "Hi May! I got a body to be just like you and Miss Bubbles and Momo!" as him rubbing his body in their face (Archer moment: Um phrasing)

He's not coming to see his friends to show off, or brag about his body, he's coming over to see them and basically going "Look we're the same now!" It's someone who's been in a tiny body, that gets little to no attention (save for bullying from Pintsize) trying to match his peers, and getting called a spoiled brat with a new toy, because his person could afford to get him something nice.

I understand that May is bitter, but she's got a home, and a job (even if she hates it) and has been given a  LOT of tolerance and love from people despite her really offputting and mean personality, being hostile to Winslow over his new body is just unnecessary and not "justified"  in the slightest.

Logged
Bravery is looking down the dark hall, knowing that you are utterly terrified of the dark, and charging in anyways.

BenRG

  • Preventing third impact
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6,484
  • Boldly Going From The Back Seat!
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #74 on: 15 Aug 2017, 12:53 »

@Reaver,

It isn't what us or any other objective third-party observer might think. What you need to do is climb into May's head and see things from her perspective. You will never understand her behaviour until then.
Logged
~~~~

They call me BenRG... But I don't know why!

OldGoat

  • The Tickler
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 989
  • Give me heresy, or give me death.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #75 on: 15 Aug 2017, 12:58 »

So even though May has paid her debt to society in Robot Jail, she still has to suffer?
If she's on parole, she has not finished her sentence.  She is, in return for her word of promise to behave, her parole, being allowed to serve her time outside of Robot Jail.  But she is still under sentence so her debt to society is not yet paid in full.

Likewise when a convicted person completes the confinement portion of their sentence, if statute or court require probation, they still owe on their "debt to society."

The argument becomes valid when a person has successfully completed their sentence and is no longer under court supervision, especially if gainful employment is difficult to find due to their status as an ex-convict.
« Last Edit: 15 Aug 2017, 14:43 by OldGoat »
Logged

SmilingCat

  • Curry sauce
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 255
  • You is friend or food?
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #76 on: 15 Aug 2017, 15:14 »

Whether or not May has paid her debt to society is irrelevant,  it's an issue of her being too poor to afford a better body. It's very much a question of how capable of a body should an AI be entitled to, and what quality of affordable maintenance she should be entitled to.

It's basically a health care issue mixed with a feeling of envy for people who don't have the problems. As a cripple, I can relate to a degree.
Logged

Shjade

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339
  • What.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #77 on: 15 Aug 2017, 15:16 »

While we're on the subject of privilege let's consider Winslow's benefactor, Hannelore.  She has the money to buy this since her parents are super rich and she can ask them for money.  She's only a barista because she wants to live a normal life to overcome her anxieties.  If she were disowned the situation would be quite different.  By May's logic Hannelore is a rich girl slumming it and yet she's said nothing like that to her.  Perhaps her admiration blinds her.

Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.
Logged
"People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway."

themacnut

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
    • The Vanguard-Superhero Space Opera Action
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #78 on: 15 Aug 2017, 15:34 »

Wow May, enjoying the taste of those sour grapes? As if it's Winslow's fault you're in the position you're in.

Logged
The Vanguard - superhero space opera

castn

  • Not quite a lurker
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #79 on: 15 Aug 2017, 15:50 »

He's not coming to see his friends to show off, or brag about his body, he's coming over to see them and basically going "Look we're the same now!" It's someone who's been in a tiny body, that gets little to no attention (save for bullying from Pintsize) trying to match his peers, and getting called a spoiled brat with a new toy, because his person could afford to get him something nice

The thing is, they aren't the same now. Physically: yes. But both Momo and May own their bodies at a high price. May has to upkeep hers (so much so that she can't afford to save up for an altogether new chassis) and Momo's dynamic with Marigold was altered when her chassis price put such a significant dent in Marigold's bank account. They both had problems acquiring the autonomy that most able humans get at birth.

Winslow is privileged. Even outside of that fact that his body costs him next to nothing on a material and emotional level, he is also an AI whose human is the daughter of a v important man in AI culture. To him, getting a body is a decision and an exciting one. To Momo and May, keeping theirs is a hard won achievement. He isn't intentionally bragging but he isn't exercising social acumen either - Momo might forgive that but May won't.

May's status as a felon or ex-felon is irrelevant to the morality of the scenario. It is only relevant in the social context of readers who make judgement calls on whether or not  someone "deserves" to be cheated by systemised descrimination just because they have a criminal record. I'm not saying she's right for calling out her friend in that way but this is May we're talking about - if you wanna criticise her words, critisize her rudeness in general instead of her viewpoint on the subject.

Winslow's feelings are hurt but he can move on, and be more aware of the context in which he celebrates his new chassis. Not everyone's gonna get a tactful privilege talk! Some people just gotta deal with May's level of upfrontness, and realise it's a small price to pay for acknolwedging the rights/wealth they've had compared to a majority of people (or AIs).

It's not Winslow's fault that May is in her position, but she doesn't owe him tact if he's not going to be considerate of the disparity between their circumstances. He's being a dick out of ignorance but he's ignorant because he can afford to be ignorant.
Logged

flondrix

  • Furry furrier
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #80 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:04 »

Huh? No, the actual title of the comic is "Number 3546: De Vermis Mysteriis". UmberGryphon was wondering if anyone knew what the title has to do with the comic.

Nothing and that sometimes happens. IMO, Jeph was just telling us what book Momo is holding and perhaps reminding us that she has shown a definite interest in humans on a sexual level.

No, no, no.  De Vermis Mysteriis by Ludwig Prinn is one of the books mentioned in the Cthulhu Mythos that is full of Things That Man Was Not Meant To Know.  Such books are extremely rare, mainly because when someone does find them and read them, something dreadful and destructive inevitably happens.  One of the few institutions that holds copies of them is an obscure liberal arts college in the state of Massachusetts, like the one at which this comic is set.  I'm not saying that the book does not contain sexual horrors--how would we know?--but that is not what this is about.
Logged

zisraelsen

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #81 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:13 »

So, how could Winslow have approached the situation better? He obviously needed to address the new chassis at some point, which is something Momo never needed to do (she was already in her new chassis when May was introduced). Was he tactless in his choice of words, or in his timing, with her at work? Would this tension have existed no matter how he tried to approach it, just by virtue of how easily he acquired something May is so frustrated to be denied?
Logged
Zack is easier to type than Zisraelsen, so

ChipNoir

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #82 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:30 »

It would have required knowledge that he just didn't have, and really, why would he? He's sheltered as hell.

I've grown up stumbling more than a few times into situations where I realize that I had lessons I needed to learn about the world and the minorities and groups that live in it. I thought I had everything understood, just being a homosexual, and ergo a minority myself. But when it came to understanding Transgenders, or POC, I had sooooo much to learn and process. It wasn't an easy thing to grapple with either. I learned though, and I think I'm a better person for my broadened perspective.

 Sometimes there isn't anyone there to teach you those lessons, and it means you learn the hard way. Is it fair? No. Should we all try to be understanding when it comes to teaching people about understanding privilege, consideration for struggle and other issues? Yeah!

Is May the ideal person to do that? Nooooope. That was gonna go wrong almost by fate. May is never going to be the right person to teach about these sorta things. Or maybe she'll come around, who knows? She's surprised us before. I really think Claire or Momo would be the BEST person to teach Winslow about these things.

What does matter is that Winslow develops to courage to understand he made a mistake, and better himself, and hopefully appreciate his body even more knowing what it's really worth.
Logged

zisraelsen

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #83 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:48 »

Yea, I can relate to that. I'm a straight, white, cis male (The Quadfecta!) and try hard as I can to avoid doing to others what Winslow is to May. Sometimes I do anyway. I asked the question to see if there was a lesson to be learned from the interaction.

In my mind, seeking out people in order to show off his new body was Winslow's main misstep. This friend group is entangled (and plot-driven) enough that I'd think that allowing May to be reintroduced to him naturally wouldn't take long and would be the tactful thing to do.
Logged
Zack is easier to type than Zisraelsen, so

themacnut

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
    • The Vanguard-Superhero Space Opera Action
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #84 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:51 »

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

It is a natural response of course; the privileged are generally envied, even hated by those who aren't. But that response does not help the non-privileged person better their circumstances. All it does is make them look like the fox who couldn't get those sweet grapes.

Logged
The Vanguard - superhero space opera

zisraelsen

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 227
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #85 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:57 »

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

It is a natural response of course; the privileged are generally envied, even hated by those who aren't. But that response does not help the non-privileged person better their circumstances. All it does is make them look like the fox who couldn't get those sweet grapes.

But if that were really where May were coming from, wouldn't she be envious of any AI with a better chassis? She doesn't seem to be; Momo's chassis is way more advanced than May's and they are good friends (from May's perspective anyway). The problem, whether it was his fault or not, seems Winslow-specific.
Logged
Zack is easier to type than Zisraelsen, so

ChipNoir

  • Larger than most fish
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 103
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #86 on: 15 Aug 2017, 16:58 »

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

It is a natural response of course; the privileged are generally envied, even hated by those who aren't. But that response does not help the non-privileged person better their circumstances. All it does is make them look like the fox who couldn't get those sweet grapes.

Again. I'm really not sure it's a wealth thing so much as a liberty thing. "Decided" is a bolded word here. I think May's really issue is the flippancy with which he's talking about something that should be treated with a lot more reverence.
Logged

Shjade

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339
  • What.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #87 on: 15 Aug 2017, 17:09 »

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.
How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.
Logged
"People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway."

themacnut

  • Vagina Manifesto
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
    • The Vanguard-Superhero Space Opera Action
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #88 on: 15 Aug 2017, 18:04 »

Winslow wasn't "flaunting" anything. He just wanted to share good news with someone he mistook for a friend. Which was his only mistake. Sadly his social skills and experience are not developed enough to realize this.

Logged
The Vanguard - superhero space opera

comicalArchitect

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 136
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #89 on: 15 Aug 2017, 18:59 »

So apparently Winslow's plan is to start giving back, likely to other AIs. What if this involves him getting a job at one of the comic's locales? I would like to see him work at Secret Bakery; it would bring disparate strands of the comic together, and CoD is overstuffed as is.
Logged

fayelovesbubbles

  • The German Chancellory building
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 482
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #90 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:00 »

Bubbles is so sweet to Winslow.<3<3<3

I love Bubbles.
Logged
...and Bubbles loves Faye.

Castlerook

Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #91 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:03 »

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

It is a natural response of course; the privileged are generally envied, even hated by those who aren't. But that response does not help the non-privileged person better their circumstances. All it does is make them look like the fox who couldn't get those sweet grapes.

Again. I'm really not sure it's a wealth thing so much as a liberty thing. "Decided" is a bolded word here. I think May's really issue is the flippancy with which he's talking about something that should be treated with a lot more reverence.

Highlighted what I think to be the crux of the matter.

How big a deal is it for an AI to have a chassis? Is it empowering, to be able to freely move about and really interact with the world? To not be limited to such a small frame but to have some kind of experience of what it is to be human?

Or is it something akin to changing our clothes for us? At home, I wear a pair of tracksuit pants; if I go out I wear jeans; if I have to go to work or an important event, I wear a suit - a nice experience but it ends when I get home and I pull on the tracksuit pants. But that's us humans.

But consider what its like for an AI. You're formed and have no form to begin with. You might be lucky enough to be allowed to become a companion, like Pintsize, Winslow or Momo, or to find some other purpose that requires a chassis or shell, like Bubbles. But at the end of the day, its not a right, its a privilege. Its a privilege to be able to port yourself into a chassis that isn't falling apart, that feels like another prison sentence when you've already completed your time.

Winslow isn't in the wrong here, he's just excited to be showing off his new body, but to May its (unintentional) flaunting of something she has been denied even though she has served her time and completed her punishment. It might be anger on May's part and it might be displaced towards Winslow, but at the same time, she has a right to feel angry because it just feels like punishment after punishment after punishment.
Logged
Whenever someone says "I'm not book smart but I am street smart.", all I hear is "I'm not real smart, but I am imaginary smart."

blt

  • Bizarre cantaloupe phobia
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 203
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #92 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:15 »

Bubbles remains my fave.

The whole discussion pretty on the nose given current events.  Not sure how far ahead Jeph's strip buffer goes but it seems to have lined up.
Logged
"I hate Fayelhotehp, She Who Smites the Morning, she's a bully and a monster."

Is it cold in here?

  • Administrator
  • Awakened
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 19,810
  • He/him/his pronouns
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #93 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:21 »

Come to think of it, how _did_ May get parole?

Every time I imagine a parole board hearing I see it going badly for her when she begins mouthing off to them.

Maybe participating in the VR work release program made a good impression, but if the parole board took a look at the tapes of her interactions with Dale ...
Logged
"Non-compliance is a social skill"
Quote from: an unnamed minister's sermon
In your face, darkness!  We are the light and we outnumber you!

snufflebottoms

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 147
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #94 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:27 »

May was out of line and there is no excuse for it. Full stop. She was a raging bitch and Winslow wasn't even the tiniest bit rude. Now he's going to do something nice for her (or it appears that he is) because she basically verbally assaulted him. And it's going to turn into a lesson about him "checking his privilege." 

I'd like to invoke the "if someone gets excited about something and you make them feel bad for being excited, you are the worst kind of person." No amount of money that his companion has or gifts him gives May the green card to treat him like shit. It kind of reminded me of when everyone tolerated Faye's physical violence because she was "physical violence girl." May is basically "talks to you like you're shit girl." It's not cute and I'm going to be very pissed off if this arc doesn't end with everyone in story acknowledging that May was 100% at fault and Winslow 0%.

May's not a friend and he should find better people (and by people I mean people and robots) to spend his time with. I'm so over her antics.

Logged

Shjade

  • Pneumatic ratchet pants
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 339
  • What.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #95 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:37 »

May's not a friend and he should find better people (and by people I mean people and robots) to spend his time with. I'm so over her antics.

May's definitely not the best person to be around.

She's also not wrong.

Did Winslow mean to shove it in her face and/or think it's not a big deal to get what he wants because he wants it? Nah, it's not something he's ever had to think about that way, and he acts like it.

Which is her point.

I dunno where you came up with that idea re: you're the worst if you wet blanket someone's excitement, but if you think that's the worst kind of person, you, yourself, should probably spend some time reflecting on your values. There are far worse kinds of people, I can assure you.
Logged
"People are illogical, unreasonable, and self-centered. Love them anyway."

Roxtar

  • Balloon animal serial killer
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
  • Slacker
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #96 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:45 »

"hey winslow, i know you were a glorified mp3 player until a few hours ago... but how DARE you take any joy in your newfound freedoms/abilities!?!?! especially when thwarted terrorists such as myself have to work menial positions!?!?!"
Logged
You told us about your trigger. people informing others of their triggers is one of my triggers. please refrain from doing that again. Oh, I've just triggered myself... which sounds more enjoyable than it really is.

Perfectly Reasonable

  • Psychopath in a hockey mask
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 636
  • Be nice to everybody. So you're better than them.
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #97 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:47 »

Momo and her job:
My head canon is that Momo acts as an intelligent interface to the library's search functions.  Something that human librarians do IRL, but Momo has an advantage: she can get right down to the bare metal. So she has unique qualifications for her job.

May, OTH, does not have the skills or inclination for such a job. Given her history, who would give her another banking job? So she is stuck with jobs any unskilled meatbag could do. She needs to learn responsibility. Impulse control.

And Winslow? Wants for nothing --- except respect.

Ghost. Shell.
How much does the shell affect the ghost?
Logged
What would I do if I were smart?
I guess first I'd stop taking the stupid pills.

snufflebottoms

  • Obscure cultural reference
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 147
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #98 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:47 »

May's not a friend and he should find better people (and by people I mean people and robots) to spend his time with. I'm so over her antics.

May's definitely not the best person to be around.

She's also not wrong.

Did Winslow mean to shove it in her face and/or think it's not a big deal to get what he wants because he wants it? Nah, it's not something he's ever had to think about that way, and he acts like it.

Which is her point.

I dunno where you came up with that idea re: you're the worst if you wet blanket someone's excitement, but if you think that's the worst kind of person, you, yourself, should probably spend some time reflecting on your values. There are far worse kinds of people, I can assure you.

She is absolutely 100% wrong. She would have been nasty no matter how well Winslow stepped on those eggshells. It's the kind of person she is.

I didn't come up with that bit about making people feel bad, it's a thing circulating on Facebook but it makes a good point. Namely, if something makes someone happy and you have to find some reason to shit on it (and there are people that do this regularly) then you're a shitty person, not them. And yeah, I mean things like embezzlement and stealing a fighter jet are worse than being mad at someone else's good fortune but let's not get into semantics.
Logged

Reaver

  • Emoticontraindication
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 66
Re: WCDT Strips 3546 to 3550 (14th to 18th August 2017)
« Reply #99 on: 15 Aug 2017, 19:52 »

Just saying, when my friend came to show me his brand new Prius, while I was working my crummy minimum wage job (And relying on rides to work via my parents) , and he worked at a bank that paid good money, I didn't glare at his car and tell him he was a shit head for rubbing his privilege in my face.

....I did however ask if he'd drive me to work and I'd pay him for gas :P
Logged
Bravery is looking down the dark hall, knowing that you are utterly terrified of the dark, and charging in anyways.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 9   Go Up