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[OldGoat]

Cheese whiz on toast.

Yum....

Vegemite with plenty of butter, especially on sour dough.  (Thank you, my Australian Brothers and Sisters.)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Of course Jeph is setting up conflict in Marten & Claire's relationship - without it they're static characters and static characters are boring.  For cryin' out loud, he's writing them like real people in a real relationship!  A bump doesn't signal a breakup.  Further, I read 2807-2808 to mean Jeph intends their relationship to be durable.

~~~~~~~~~~~

While searching for the cite above, I stumbled across #2836.  Claire may already know about the circumstances of Marty's promotion.

[Emperor Norton]

So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account.

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

Idk man, I'm not the person saying that anyone without a budget isn't "really an adult" and that anyone who doesn't have a savings account is bad with money or just isn't planning.

More than likely, he makes enough to get by and not much more than that. The time he got the guitar is one of the few times he has ever seemed to have any money, it isn't showing a pattern of behavior when the sample size is 1. And yeah, it might have been a good idea to save it, but poor people get told all the time "Hey you can never have anything nice, remember that one time you bought something nice, that is why you are where you are."

He seems to get by and pay his bills and not be going into debt. I know a hell of a lot of adults, even with budgets, that don't seem to manage that.

[themacnut]

So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account.

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

Idk man, I'm not the person saying that anyone without a budget isn't "really an adult" and that anyone who doesn't have a savings account is bad with money or just isn't planning.

More than likely, he makes enough to get by and not much more than that. The time he got the guitar is one of the few times he has ever seemed to have any money, it isn't showing a pattern of behavior when the sample size is 1. And yeah, it might have been a good idea to save it, but poor people get told all the time "Hey you can never have anything nice, remember that one time you bought something nice, that is why you are where you are."

The problem with making "enough to get by and not much more" is if you lose your job, you're scrambling to find another before next month's bills come due. And if you can't find another one within a couple of months (and one with income roughly equal to the one you lost), then you're facing eviction and/or foreclosure; in other words, homelessness. Having roommates helps forestall this, but they can only carry you so long - if they could easily afford rent by themselves, they'd likely be living by themselves.

A good way for Marten to start a savings account IMO, is to have his employer direct deposit his check into a bank with low of no minimum balance requirements. Such banks are not easy to find, but are worth searching for. Long as he's not spending every cent of his paycheck every time, he'll gradually build up a balance in the account.

[Emperor Norton]

Man, if you believe the only thing that is needed for people to stop living paycheck to paycheck is for them to make better choices, then you live a much more privileged life than most people I know.

[Thrillho]

So either Marten is terrible with money or he has no plans in case there's a big emergency.

Because yes, that is the only reasons possible that someone doesn't have a savings account.

Well, let's see. Marten is impulsive when it comes to money, best observed when he bought a very expensive guitar after coming into some money.

Also, unless the apartment was something of a steal, until recently most of his money would have been going towards rent or bills or food.

But go ahead, sit back and contribute nothing to the discussion.

I think the point was more how judgemental your post sounded against people with no savings account. Either he is bad with money or doesn't plan for emergencies - saying that kind of thing tars a lot of people. I don't think you meant to, mind, just a way of interpreting what you wrote.

[Emperor Norton]

Honestly, in the discussion of privilege, Marten is fairly privileged in general when it comes to financial stuff. Not because he has money (he doesn't), but because if an absolute disaster was to happen, that he himself couldn't cover, he has two loving parents who both are implied to be very well off financially. I'm sure he would do everything within his own power to deal with it himself first, but I seriously doubt he would ever be homeless.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

There's this guvmint poll which asks people if they could cope with a sudden financial emergency. Like $400. More than half said "No". This is WORRISOME.

[Emperor Norton]

There's this guvmint poll which asks people if they could cope with a sudden financial emergency. Like $400. More than half said "No". This is WORRISOME.

I mean, recently I gave 50 dollars to a friend to help him buy a bicycle cause his car broke down (in the permanent kind of "cheaper to just find another 1k junker than fixing this one). He had no way to get another car, but with a bike at least he could get to work and back and not lose his job (also 10 miles of bike riding a day is probably doing a good thing for his fitness I guess. Not fun in the Georgia heat though).

[snufflebottoms]

Even if you only have enough to get by, having a budget makes sense. $x for rent means I can spend $y and $z on food, gas and insurance etc.
But not having one doesn't make you a bad adult. I have one but it's not formal and certainly not an Excel sheet.

[hedgie]

I didn't bother with a budget when I lived in SF (one of the pros of being rent-controlled was not having to worry about huge increases).  My pay went straight in the bank for rent/bills.  anything leftover was gravy.  Tips averaged to enough pocket money to cover luxuries and indulge myself.  Then again, I *was* about Marten's age at the time.

[Carl-E]

I currently have 3 jobs, one crappy full time tech support job so I can have lousy health insurance (worse than most cheap ACA plans), and two part time. 

But I went so far into debt in the time period after my last well-paying teaching job went south that every thing I make - plus some - is going into paying down the debt. 

Months I can't make ends meet, I raid my retirement fund, which is now less than half the size it used to be.  Then I wind up owing penalties to the IRS for early withdrawal, and have to borrow to cover that... 

No, I don't have a savings account.  I used to, but the economy has not been nice the last 10 years or so, and 56 is a really hard to hire age in the teaching field. 



My budget beats me up an a regular basis.  I stopped looking a long time ago. 




So, I'm sitting out the rest of this financial discussion.  Just wanted to put in my 2 cents. 

can't really afford much more...

[OldGoat]

Comic's up!  Jeph runs the gamut of eye expressions in frames 3 and 4.

[Case]

And this, dear children, is why we neverever come between a lovestruck librarian and the object of her adoration (least not without protective eyewear):

Love Blinds ...

[cybersmurf]

See Claire? Nothing is as 'bad' as it seems. You did overreact a bit, but given the circumstances that's not too bad and forgivable.

[Mr_Rose]

I like Tai’s wincing in the third panel, presumably to help protect against the glare from Claire’s sudden glowing…

[BenRG]

We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Big of Jeph to draw a correction strip, isn't it?

[cybersmurf]

We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Big of Jeph to draw a correction strip, isn't it?

I think I still have a blind spot from that... glow.

Also, it'd be in character for Marten to overlook the detail, either because he did actually forget, or he tried to keep friction down at the moment. Or a combinations of both.

[Tova]

I guess we're safe from implosions for the time being.

[Near Lurker]

I'd just assumed she meant Natasha, but I guess that doesn't make sense, does it?

[cybersmurf]

Natasha was a mess.

[bhtooefr]

Clearly Marten is osmium.

[jwhouk]

And this, dear children, is why we neverever come between a lovestruck librarian and the object of her adoration (least not without protective eyewear):

Love Blinds ...

(Yeah yeah)... Love BLINDS (Love blinds) Yeah yeah (Love blinds)

SHOO-dooo-wop, shoop shoop...

(URL for those who are clueless)

[cesium133]

Clearly Marten is osmium.

Oganesson.

[Welu]

Fair play, Jeph. This strip me me laugh pretty hard.

[bhtooefr]

Oganesson.

Oganesson isn't stable, though, and AFAIK its density isn't actually known.

Osmium, OTOH, is stable, and is known (and extremely high) density.

[Case]

Clearly Marten is osmium.

Oganesson.

"He's not dense, he's heavy?"

(Fascinating stuff, btw ) )

[brasca]

We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.

[pallanox]

I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

[Case]

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Is it lonely there at the centre of the universe?

[War Sparrow]

We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.

In my experience, university libraries are noisy places, because young adults cannot be quiet for more than 5 minutes. (Get off my lawn!) Of course, data point of 2, and my first university was tiny compared to most others, apparently.

My current university, bless them, has silent floors, where if you are heard making unnecessary noise, you are quietly told to hush or leave. Claire could not be there, because I will call shenanigoats if she doesn't have a theme song.

[cesium133]

Oganesson.

Oganesson isn't stable, though, and AFAIK its density isn't actually known.

Osmium, OTOH, is stable, and is known (and extremely high) density.

I thought you were referring to Claire calling him "noble".

[shanejayell]

Aww. 

[bhtooefr]

I was, but I was calling him noble and dense.

[Case]

I was, but I was calling him noble and dense.

If Oganesson were a gas at standard conditions (which is not at all clear), it would be the densest noble gas known to exist. 

That is, for values of 'density' and 'noble' that can be applied to an element with a half-life measured in microseconds, that has been synthesized only in single numbers of atoms, and is expected to have a positive electroaffinity - which doesn't matter so much, since most chemical reactions happen on timescales beyond the half-life of Oganesson.

[bhtooefr]

Osmium is a noble metal, though, that is the densest stable element known to exist.

[cybersmurf]

Claire obviously likes to reject reality and substitute her own. That's OK, as long as she can handle the "sync" with real life. But the way I see it, it's balanced out by her working against herself every now and then.

[Case]

Claire Humans obviously likes to reject (sic: objective) reality and substitute her their own (reality). That's OK, as long as she they can handle the "sync" with real life, which most humans do not manage for timescales exceeding the half-life of a pissed-off transactinide.

Claire is a human being.

FYP

[Is it cold in here?]

A human being with strong needs for safety which she depends on structure to provide.

She may be scared that she's wound up intimate with someone who doesn't track his finances.

[dutchrvl]

Also...Claire. You have lived with Marten how long? What on earth made you think Marten would use a budget?!

Without wanting to start anything this whole arc is not painting Clare in a good light. I mean, generally speaking, one of the first things you do when you move in together is do a budget, even if its as simple as Martens is yet its coming up now?

Like Marten has learnt to not disregard what Clare says and dig deeper (and thats good) but has Clare learned to communicate better?

Seems to me Clare was doing a boy who cried wolf thing in that she'd say something about being stressed and Marten would ask whats wrong and she'd tell him everythings ok so Marten learnt that Clare didn't need help with stress, until she did and then Marten had to admit his failure whereas Clare doesn't think she had anything to do with it

Underlining is mine.
I just wanted to point out that that is not necessarily true. When me and my gf moved in together, we only discussed aspects in more general terms, i.e. what our max budget would be for our rental place. Apart from that, we only make budgets for certain things, like vacations, but not for our day-to-day life. We basically just pay separate things and more or less keep an eye on whether we are more or less paying our fair share.

I do realize that our approach is a relatively less common one, and perhaps it only works well since we have similar incomes and spending habits, but so far it has been totally fine for almost 7 years. Just wanted to mention that different approaches work for different people.

[dutchrvl]

I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Meh, was Claire really trying to get her facts straight though? It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight. If Claire had asked Tai about the details of Marten's employment, the conversation here would've gone quite different.

From me, Claire would've gotten kudos if she had gotten the facts from Tai first, before fussing to Marten about it.

[Case]

<snip>

Underlining is mine.
<snip>

Also depends on culture - some of the best justifications presented here (cf. eg. themacnut's post above) to support the stance that budgeting is a skill without which an adult homo sapiens cannot be considered an adult apply only in the US and similar societies, that have virtually no social safety net, where social security contributions are not automatically deduced from paycheques, and where employers actually use cheques to pay wages.

Eg. in Ireland & Germany, employers and employees each pay half of social security contributions, where 'social security' is an umbrella term for health insurance, unemployment insurance, retirement plans (in Germany, also often care-insurance). Typically, the employer transfers both their-, and their employees social security contributions to the respective institutions - i.e. social security is deduced from a paycheck as if it were a tax.

Meaning that even people who have never made a budget in their lives enjoy strong protections against the most extreme vagaries of life, i.e. illness, unemployment, homelessness and hunger.

[bhtooefr]

Oh, but it's so much more convoluted than that in the US.

Employers are supposed to take all of the expected taxes out of paychecks and transfer them, and Social Security and Medicare taxes are supposed to come out. Those are actually the two most important ones for employers to get right, IIRC.

Social Security and Medicare taxes are the easier ones, but then there's federal, state, local, and school taxes, that can be difficult to calculate, so often the employer will get it wrong, and you'll either owe money or be owed money by at least one taxing body.

[Emperor Norton]

Oh, but it's so much more convoluted than that in the US.

And this isn't even touching on being self-employed...

[zechstyr]

We're being reminded here that one of the big drawbacks of being around a Disney Princess is the special effects! Claire's sparkly love may be cute but it's also really dazzling!

Well as long as Claire isn’t being noisy.  They are in a library afterall.

In my experience, university libraries are noisy places, because young adults cannot be quiet for more than 5 minutes. (Get off my lawn!) Of course, data point of 2, and my first university was tiny compared to most others, apparently.

My current university, bless them, has silent floors, where if you are heard making unnecessary noise, you are quietly told to hush or leave. Claire could not be there, because I will call shenanigoats if she doesn't have a theme song.

Can confirm that libraries are noisy places nowadays.  The ol' shushy librarian is a stereotype we try to squish.  My library's set up as a collaborative work area with some areas specifically designated as quiet zones.

[Lucina]

I was now going to mention his guitar splurge.

Kudos for Claire trying to get the facts straight.  Spreadsheets are a hell unto themselves.

Meh, was Claire really trying to get her facts straight though? It reads more as if Claire was venting about her conversation with Marten to Tai, and Tai corrected her when she realized Claire did not have her facts straight. If Claire had asked Tai about the details of Marten's employment, the conversation here would've gone quite different.

From me, Claire would've gotten kudos if she had gotten the facts from Tai first, before fussing to Marten about it.

I'm sorry but why would Claire specifically ask Tai, when Marten didn't correct her? She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong. That she realized how her behavior was wrong when she found out, as well as that Marten was deliberately holding back the information to give her space to be upset and work it out, is pretty much what she'd need to do in this situation. Where the original wrong assumption came from would need Jeph to clarify, she's clearly picked up bits and pieces but we don't know exactly what.

[bhtooefr]

And this isn't even touching on being self-employed...

Or even multiply employed or having variable income, or having a mix of 1099 (self-employment and other things that aren't in the scope of employment) and W-2 (employment) income.

(For a few years, I had to do my taxes twice, too, because my dad used to show livestock under my name, so I got 1099s for the premiums from that, and had to calculate my taxes with and without the 1099s included to know how much he owed me for taxes.)

[pwhodges]

Can confirm that libraries are noisy places nowadays.  The ol' shushy librarian is a stereotype we try to squish.

In the university library which my wife was deputy head of in her last job, there was a period when the students found it necessary to shush the librarians.

[Case]

She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong.

Neither did she have a reason to assume that the idea she had was right - hypothesis testing is not only for scientists; most modern societies cherish critical thinking, even while many of their members treat their prejudices and biases as "fundamental and universal truths, until proven otherwise denial of their defectiveness has become impossible" (*)


(*) With the added corollary that error will only be acknowledged when all who could feel the merest hint of embarrassment or discomfort have long passed away, and that as soon as the new truth has become accepted, nobody must ever mention that parties unknown have once believed in quite different 'truths'.

[Lucina]

She had no reason to assume the idea she had was wrong.

Neither did she have a reason to assume that the idea she had was right - hypothesis testing is not only for scientists; most modern societies cherish critical thinking, even while many of their members treat their prejudices and biases as "fundamental and universal truths, until proven otherwise denial of their defectiveness has become impossible" (*)


(*) With the added corollary that error will only be acknowledged when all who could feel the merest hint of embarrassment or discomfort have long passed away, and that as soon as the new truth has become accepted, nobody must ever mention that parties unknown have once believed in quite different 'truths'.

I mean, sure, but most of us probably have some detail off about our partner's life before we got together that we think we know, but don't. That's not exactly unusual.

[Case]

I mean, sure, but most of us probably have some detail off about our partner's life before we got together that we think we know, but don't. That's not exactly unusual.

Ain't that the truth ... 

Fwiw, in my headcanon, Claire 'just happened' to be around when she struck a conversation with Thai, and brought up the conditions of Marten's employment as casually as possible, since Marten had worried about it himself. She felt a little guilty about going behind his back, but figured that where Marten's wellbeing is concerned, it's better to be safe than sorry, particularly given his laisez-faire approach to finance and employment.

Since Claire is so 'casual' going about her little it's-for-their-own-good schemes that even her brother smells them from a mile away, Thai probably read her like a book before she had finished the first sentence, and started asking some questions.

Or maybe this is not the first time that Claire has confided in Thai? In my alma mater, more experienced grad students would feel a duty to advise and assist their fledgeling peers, up to & including providing the occasional shoulder to cry on.