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Poll

Where Next For May?

A new job because dancing outside of Union Robotics with a sandwich board is her dream!
- 1 (2.8%)
A new body because Sven has convinced her that anthropomimicary is the way to go
- 6 (16.7%)
A new body because she still wants to be a fighter jet (or, at least, a traffic monitoring drone)
- 1 (2.8%)
Go wild with experimenting on just how close to the full experience she can get with humans
- 4 (11.1%)
Spend a long time grumbling in front of Momo that she's spoiling her fun
- 3 (8.3%)
Go to Punchbot and ask for a gig at the Robot Fighting Arena; ANY gig
- 5 (13.9%)
Sell her soul... or at least her runtime... to the devil... or at least Spookybot to have a wish granted
- 0 (0%)
The probation hearing is here! What is to be her fate?
- 13 (36.1%)
Inception (Robo-Jail Version) - Just how much of what she's experienced is real?
- 2 (5.6%)
Other (please specify in comments)
- 1 (2.8%)

Total Members Voted: 36


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Author Topic: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)  (Read 11127 times)

Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #50 on: 10 Jun 2019, 11:55 »

So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?
More than likely May will see it as another string controlling her life.
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SmilingCat

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #51 on: 10 Jun 2019, 11:58 »

So if May and Sven start a regular relationship, and if Sven buys her a new body, is that a friend being generous to a friend or is it sex work? How will May see it?

Financially, it would be like him buying her a car. Even if he could afford it and doesn't care about the expense, she'd feel a heavy burden of gratitude that would color her interactions with him. People aren't wired to shrug off that kind of generosity from other people they like.
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Marco

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #52 on: 10 Jun 2019, 13:11 »

Welcome, new people!

(snipped)

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.

My brother was in and out of prison from his teens to his late twenties, and he'd agree with that. (He now has a job that comes with a home, and is okay.) He does tend to lash out at those closest to him, which is something he certainly shares with May. He also tends to take advantage of people, something that May also does, I think. Where he differs from May, though, is that he's lost that chip on his shoulder. He owns his mistakes, and has moved on as best he can with the consequences of those mistakes. He's built a life for himself from grit, personality and talent, and has also made some effort to repair the close relationships he had with family and friends.

As an aside, nobody in our immediate family judges my brother anymore for the crimes which imprisoned him years ago (none of which were violent). The relationships he damaged were due to him being a selfish, arrogant, thoughtless jerk. (That was a trait that was sometimes evident in his crimes.)

I guess the whole issue here is the time frame. How long (in QC time) is May out of jail? For meat people, changing this kind of "automatic lashing out" behaviour takes time. Add to it being prone to extreme emotional responses - QC AIs are usually more emotive than humans, and May in particular is not the most cold analytic person we know...
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #53 on: 10 Jun 2019, 14:35 »

Bear in mind that the US prison system isn't exactly a system that seeks to help prisoners. It has one of the highest recidivism rates in the world.

As AI are a relatively new phenomenon, we can presume that Robot Jail hasn't had all the kinks worked out.

Now consider May. May went to prison for what amounted to fraud and firearms violations (money and trying to buy an illegal jet). A quick look at Federal Sentencing Guidelines tells us that Humans face up to between 50 to 60 years in prison.

We can also presume that time is different for AI.

So consider now that May has possibly the equivalent of 60 years in prison. She's done her time and has not received any training or counselling about her crime or time in prison (I'm not counting the group meetings as that seems to be more a general support for AI). She's been shoved into a chassis that has literally fallen apart on her and the government seems intent to leave her there. All around her, AI are upgrading their chassis or integrating themselves into society. Meanwhile, she's still in the corpse's shell. So she acts out. She's abrasive. She's kinda shitty towards people. She looks at the world as though it's going to hit her again. And she's preparing to hit back if she needs to.

And yet, when May has an intimate encounter, she's confused, she doesn't really know what to say or tell people and suddenly the closest person she has to a best friend comes in and (to May's ears) insinuates that she's been doing nasty things to livestock. And when the truth of the situation comes out, yes, Momo had a crush on Sven, but she had no special claim to him, again, May feels like the world has punched her again. And now, Roko has come in with a brand new chassis.

Yep, if I was May, I'd be pretty pissed off too.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #54 on: 10 Jun 2019, 15:12 »

Welcome, new people!

(snipped)

One thing that scares me here is that May's tendency to lash out and assume the worst may hurt her in ways that are hard to fix. On prisontalk.com, the fraction of posters who have re-established themselves in society after parole say the only way to succeed is to let go of victim mentality. Nothing easy about that, of course, when someone has been treated as unfairly as the criminal justice system treats people, but if May needs to do that work in order to succeed I want her to succeed.

My brother was in and out of prison from his teens to his late twenties, and he'd agree with that. (He now has a job that comes with a home, and is okay.) He does tend to lash out at those closest to him, which is something he certainly shares with May. He also tends to take advantage of people, something that May also does, I think. Where he differs from May, though, is that he's lost that chip on his shoulder. He owns his mistakes, and has moved on as best he can with the consequences of those mistakes. He's built a life for himself from grit, personality and talent, and has also made some effort to repair the close relationships he had with family and friends.

As an aside, nobody in our immediate family judges my brother anymore for the crimes which imprisoned him years ago (none of which were violent). The relationships he damaged were due to him being a selfish, arrogant, thoughtless jerk. (That was a trait that was sometimes evident in his crimes.)

I guess the whole issue here is the time frame. How long (in QC time) is May out of jail? For meat people, changing this kind of "automatic lashing out" behaviour takes time. Add to it being prone to extreme emotional responses - QC AIs are usually more emotive than humans, and May in particular is not the most cold analytic person we know...

I disagree that the whole issue is the time frame. May has been out of jail for long enough to form relationships, get a job, and get stable living arrangements. She seems determined, however, to either toss her relationships aside, or else throw them back in people's faces. I think that she is well aware that she's rather a selfish, mean person, and can't be bothered to even try to change. As I said in another comment, I do think she's been treated unfairly, and should have received more official support. However, she's clearly got a chance at a decent life, and she consistently uses it to make other people feel like crap. Not aboard the May train.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #55 on: 10 Jun 2019, 15:16 »

We can also presume that time is different for AI.

So consider now that May has possibly the equivalent of 60 years in prison.

That only made me think of:

Quote from: Star Trek: First Contact
"And for a time, I was tempted by her offer."
"How long a time?"
"0.68 seconds, sir. For an android, that is nearly an eternity."
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #56 on: 10 Jun 2019, 16:15 »

<snip> Yep, if I was May, I'd be pretty pissed off too.

I don't think there's a ton of disagreement about whether or not May have a right to be pissed ( I could be wrong here, I only speak for myself).

When I describe her character (i.e. she is a jerk), it is less important to my analysis whether or not her backstory is compelling enough to make sense of her pattern of behavior and whether or not that story is sympathetic. I do feel for May's situation and I think Jeph has crafted a personal history that makes May's character make sense.

At the end of the day, the reason for her pattern of behavior doesn't change what that pattern is or what it says about who she is today. She is a jerk and a bully. The May I've observed is mean to people around her, even when those people are nice to her.  And it is so overt, that I believe May both knows and intends to hurt those around her as an expression of her frustration. The lack of sincere apology makes me believe that May probably feels that her situation justifies this treatment. I disagree that it justifies it and I think that if it continues, those around her should not tolerate it anymore.   
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David F

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #57 on: 10 Jun 2019, 17:12 »

She is a jerk and a bully. The May I've observed is mean to people around her, even when those people are nice to her.  And it is so overt, that I believe May both knows and intends to hurt those around her as an expression of her frustration.

I see May very differently.  She has almost no filter, and a penchant for profanity.  (Poor impulse control is pretty much her defining characteristic from the beginning.)  The moment Dale sort-of agreed to the "Virtual Companion" beta, she dropped the facade and started swearing.  And yet, he stuck it out with her, because he saw that underneath the crudity, she's actually a pretty decent person.

The same applies here.  May's initial reaction to Roko is friendly, noticing that her appearance has changed and asking after it.  Sure, she lapses shortly thereafter into a venting diatribe (notable perhaps for the relative lack of profanity) that could perhaps be summed up as "Augh, not another friend with a brand new body, why me?"

She imputes a less than charitable motive to Roko, but doesn't directly insult her.  For May, that's positively friendly.  Compare that to her initial exchanges with Dale, where she flings random insults rather like a monkey flinging excrement...

May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #58 on: 10 Jun 2019, 17:16 »

May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.

Exactly. May has been through the wringer and its natural for her to be standoffish with people she doesn't know that well.

May is like a dog, one that's been beaten and abused. When a dog has been kicked enough times, you can't be surprised when it bites.
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Is it cold in here?

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #59 on: 10 Jun 2019, 17:52 »

I do understand May and can have compassion but I would draw lines with anyone who acted toward me like May does to others.

To her credit, she can be self-aware, as for example when she patched things up with Winslow.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #60 on: 10 Jun 2019, 17:53 »

Who'd she bully?

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #61 on: 10 Jun 2019, 18:52 »

Just because May's had a hard life, doesn't mean she's automatically got a "get out of consequences for her choice of actions free" card to go with it.

She has a right to be upset at Momo, she has a right to be confused about what she did with Sven.

She also has every right for Roko to fricken snap at her for her insensitive actions, Roko's been through some heavy shit, she doesn't feel at home or comfortable in a body she didn't want, while May  makes light of the fact that Roku got crushed, and now has things she has to do for her new body.

May is not a delicate broken  glass vase that needs to be handled with delicate touches.

She's a adult that needs to learn that if you just snap at everyone b/c you're having a hard time, you'll find yourself alone, nobody needs to take her crap just because she's got it bad.


Also "MAH NEW CAH SMELLEN ASS"
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #62 on: 10 Jun 2019, 19:06 »

I see May very differently.  She has almost no filter, and a penchant for profanity.  (Poor impulse control is pretty much her defining characteristic from the beginning.)  The moment Dale sort-of agreed to the "Virtual Companion" beta, she dropped the facade and started swearing.  And yet, he stuck it out with her, because he saw that underneath the crudity, she's actually a pretty decent person.

Unfiltered and impulsive are traits that May has but that just means that the character doesn't hold things back and acts on whims. I think Emily, for example, is impulsive and unfiltered but Emily isn't mean and May is. It's also possible for May to be the jerk with a heart of gold trope but I stand by the jerk portion. In other words, I'm not saying she's irredeemable but she is undeniably a mean person.   

The fact that the way she talked to Roko is "positively friendly" for May is also kind of my point ... that's her "nice." And yeah, she apologized to Winslow .. sort of ... I mean after Hanners stood up to her.  May is hardly the only character that does this and I'm still interested it reading their stories for sure - the drama makes the story more interesting to read. Doesn't make her less of a jerk, it's just part of the character, along with poor impulse control, etc. which has a back story to inform it imo.


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SmilingCat

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #63 on: 10 Jun 2019, 19:08 »

May has her kinks, but the hilarious boston accent clearly isn't one of them.

(or at least not paying for it...)
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #64 on: 10 Jun 2019, 19:49 »

So Roko's Bawstin accent comes out when she's angry.

I seem to recall another character whose Southern accent (and contractions) only came out when she was drunk...
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #65 on: 10 Jun 2019, 20:14 »

Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #66 on: 10 Jun 2019, 20:50 »

I think this is sort of good for both of them. They way Roko is directly calling May on her shit is something she needs to hear, and while this isn't the best way for it to happen, that's the frankest I think we've seen Roko be about her situation on screen.

Also I'm just always in awe of the depth of Jeph's characters. That like us they rarely learn the first time. Also I feel like May is abrasive like Faye was but it's taking different turns, as May and who she is close to are still different people. New characters are getting fleshed out and I'm happy that I'm enjoying his storytelling with them as well as I did the previous ones.
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alc40

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #67 on: 10 Jun 2019, 21:10 »

Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
An AI rights nonprofit.

But it seemed like Roko got the idea of going into that line of work from May's problems with her body, so I'm not sure why the latest comic makes it seem like some new realization.  I suppose Roko might have forgotten about it for a while with the trauma & disruption from her body being destroyed, so this might be more remembering than a new realization.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #68 on: 10 Jun 2019, 21:55 »

She’s not being a jerk, either. She’s in a bad place. Just like Momo was in a bad place. She thinks she has lost one of her very few friends. She doesn’t know about the dysmorphia.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it’s easy for us to judge from our comfortable, omniscient perspective. I would have thought that this audience would appreciate that, honesty.

I would really like to come here and find compassion instead of judgement one day. I would not share details of my life to some of you in a million years.

I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

(I realize I’m actually being judgmental myself here though.)
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #69 on: 10 Jun 2019, 23:24 »

Well, I have to congratulate Roko for not tolerating May's hostility and anger transfer. By the looks of May's expression in panel 3, this isn't something that happens too often to her. Dale tends to let her run out of steam and then talk to her; Momo and Winslow are more likely to get so upset that they have to retreat. Roko instead tells May the truth: That she's being self-centred in assuming that everyone else is doing things to hurt or demean her and that she is somehow uniquely persecuted.

Panel 4 was a lovely tension-relief though. Yeah, as odd as it sounds, there really are people out there that pay to be shouted at and called a jerk. May isn't one of them and isn't it typical May to basically assume that this is some kind of kinky 'personal service' that Roko is now offering to make ends meet?

[I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

Waving judgement of the characters' moral qualities is an easy position to fall into when commenting on media, often because the author really doesn't see much need to comment on overt aspects of the character's on-screen personality. That said, I do sometimes get the impression that it's a kind of virtue signalling: "I'm a better person because I can stand on my hill and denounce others."
« Last Edit: 10 Jun 2019, 23:41 by BenRG »
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traroth

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #70 on: 11 Jun 2019, 01:31 »

Roko takes no shite from anybody, not even Spookybot. She's a real badass. So bad move, May...

It really is a shitty day for May. I can emphatise...

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #71 on: 11 Jun 2019, 03:20 »

Someone remind me what Basilisk’s new business is? Because I’m not clear how / why she’d take on May as a client.
An AI rights nonprofit.

But it seemed like Roko got the idea of going into that line of work from May's problems with her body, so I'm not sure why the latest comic makes it seem like some new realization.  I suppose Roko might have forgotten about it for a while with the trauma & disruption from her body being destroyed, so this might be more remembering than a new realization.
Conscious vs subconscious

Also she got completely blindsided by the new body.
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snufflebottoms

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #72 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:20 »

I probably shouldn’t comment now, because I mostly lurk and I didn’t say anything at the time. But last week someone said that Momo was “garbage” because of her bad reaction to May sleeping with Sven. Was it a bad idea for her to do that? Yes. Was it immature? Yes. Should she apologize to May? Yes. Should she think about what she did and maybe learn from it? Of course. But to say she’s “garbage” because she acted shitty or like a jerk once is going wayyy too far.

Also a couple years ago, someone suggested that Faye’s sister’s girlfriend should be denied a psychology degree because she suggested that Faye’s feelings for Bubbles May be more than friendship. Was it inappropriate and kind of rude? Yes. Was the girlfriend kind of annoying in other ways? Definitely. But to suggest that she should be denied a degree or reported for a HIPAA violation for something that wasn’t a therapeutic situation—wow!

(I realize I’m actually being judgmental myself here though.)

All good insights. And I agree even though May is rude and jerky, she should still be provided basic health care which means chassis repairs. I'm actually curious how that works for most AIs. Clearly the parole board doesn't cover it but do most chassises comes with a warranty/maintenance plan (i.e. AI health insurance)
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2019, 16:33 by snufflebottoms »
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #73 on: 11 Jun 2019, 04:25 »

Also I'm just always in awe of the depth of Jeph's characters.
Eh, it’s more like he occasionally decides to re-think them into something more interesting, and then retcons them. When Hanners was first introduced, she was a completely different person, confident and bold. Then he re-wrote her as neurotic and touch-averse with some hand waving about “being on pills” masking her new personality.

Roko Basilisk (and isn’t that a mouthful?) was originally a mentally rigid, slightly comical nonentity who existed just to harass certain strip regulars and occasionally end up stuck in trash cans. She was rather 2 dimensional until roughly the “crisis of conscience” storyline which had her quit the police force. Or maybe the Pintsize and Pumpernickle thing that revealed her odd bread fetish? That may have been earlier.

Some characters are one-note jokes and will probably remain one-note jokes indefinitely. Crushbot will always be CRUSHBOT. Melon will always be the insane and slightly stupid comic relief. Personally, I like Crushbot and his third person narratives despite this, but kinda wish Melon would wander off and bother the cast of Ctrl-Alt-Delete or something.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #74 on: 11 Jun 2019, 05:01 »

Now, now. No one deserves to be forced to go into the world of CTRL+ALT+DELETE.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #75 on: 11 Jun 2019, 05:04 »

I like Melon...
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #76 on: 11 Jun 2019, 06:37 »

Meanwhile, I'm wondering if we're going to see something more of May's backstory. Up to this point, it's not even clear if she was ever embodied before, or whether she lived on a server bank somewhere. If she was, though, that does raise some questions on the degree and cruelty of her punishment.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #77 on: 11 Jun 2019, 06:55 »

I, for one, would like to see Roko take on May as a client.  It'd probably distract her from her ongoing issues with her new body.  Give May the revelation that there are people who are willing to go to bat for her and not for their own agenda.  And Roko's law enforcement experience might help shake her out of her victimhood.
And as noted earlier, get Sven to become a patron of the foundation.  Helping May in a real sense, but in an altruistic manner.

Yeah, I know.  Sven not thinking of himself?
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #78 on: 11 Jun 2019, 07:00 »

Sven and May are the two most emotionally immature, and that would give Jeph as a writer room to make them grow. 

Nah I think that May is one of the MORE mature characters. She is just prickly sometimes. However, she does understand how the real world works, something that the comfortable income with very little effort that other cast members seem to have lack.

Momo and Winslow are by far the most immature characters. Sure, they may be the "sweetest" but they are also the most naive. They are "mature" in the sense that many teenagers who are shy and read a lot of books and have active inner lives are, but it is really just a mask for naivety.
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shanejayell

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #79 on: 11 Jun 2019, 07:10 »

It's funny because I was thinking there should be SOMEONE at the robot community center who's job it is to be a advocate for other robots. Like May being stuck in a substandard body. So I guess that'll be Roko...

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #80 on: 11 Jun 2019, 07:37 »

Nah I think that May is one of the MORE mature characters. She is just prickly sometimes. However, she does understand how the real world works, something that the comfortable income with very little effort that other cast members seem to have lack.
I can’t remotely agree with this. May comes across as a sociopathic child most of the time, a creature of pure Id that can’t imagine anyone else’s point of view mattering. Which is why her appearing contrite in her recent conversation with Momo was a first. I haven’t seen any evidence that she knows how the “real world works” beyond what has happened to her directly.

I don’t know where the “comfortable income” thing is coming from either. Marten basically has no money. Bubbles and Faye have frequently talked about how their shop is barely solvent. Dora talks about money problems all the time too, even if she does own Coffee of Doom. Most characters live with roommates because they can’t afford their own apartments. The main difference between May and the other barely making it characters is that May complains about it.

You might think Faye / Bubbles / Dora are relatively wealthy because they own businesses, but that’s not necessarily true. Some of the worst years my own life financially were when I was the co-owner of a small programming consultancy. I didn’t really get my life together financially until I got a regular salaried job.

The main exceptions financially are Hannelore and Sven. Hannelore was apparently slumming for her mental health. Basically getting away from her parents who are both hard to be around for different reasons. Sven’s so undeveloped we really don’t know much about him beyond what the other characters think about him.

What you said about Winslow and Momo is true enough. Winslow being a sweet child has been pretty much his thing the entire time, even when he was an old-style iPod. Momo used to be pretty adult, but that got dumped when she changed bodies, and now she’s pretty much a teenager the entire time.

If we’re going to talk emotionally mature... Bubbles is probably it. And maybe some of the older tertiary characters we don’t see that often, like Jim the owner of the Secret Bakery. Before the crisis between Dora and Marten I might have said Dora, but her behavior during the breakup pretty much blew that up for me.

EDIT: ... and Roko, come to think of it. I like Roko, and while she gets ticked (see today’s strip) now and then, she comes across as adult. Certainly more than Marten, Faye, or Dora.
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2019, 07:45 by Gus_Smedstad »
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Elder Sign

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #81 on: 11 Jun 2019, 09:12 »

May is a lot like a beaten dog.  She started out snarly and bitey at everything and everyone, but she had friends now, knows it (for all she won't readily admit it), and is much more snarl than bite these days.

May is like a dog, one that's been beaten and abused. When a dog has been kicked enough times, you can't be surprised when it bites.

With apologies to "The Boss" ...

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OldGoat

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #82 on: 11 Jun 2019, 09:27 »

Personal revelation time for those who haven't figured it out already - I spent my career working in the criminal justice system.  I feel like I've met May more than a couple times.  I didn't meet very many really evil people.  I did meet plenty who were lazy, selfish, and stupid, but by far most had just never been shown how to be decent people.  (They'd usually been told, but the people telling them fell flat when it came to modeling the behavior - and that's vital.)

Is May observant and insightful?  Absolutely!  She spots details of others' behavior, is able to instantly discern motives, and also knows instinctively where your goat is tied should she decide she wants to get it.  But it all dissolves into nothing if she's the subject of her own observations.
 
She's a female version of what Jack Kerouac describes as a "jailkid," institutionalized early in life and having a set of social skills that look to most of us like a sociopathic personality disorder.  Those skills start with a hard shell and a mind-set that says the best defense is a brutal offense.  "Hit them back before they hit you the first time" is an acceptable tactic.  She's learned opportunism as a moral philosophy, even if she doesn't always put it into practice.  There's a sensitive, caring person with a strong sense of justice in there somewhere, but it's going to take a while to let her out.

May will always have a thick layer of callous, but most of The Jerk is a character she's playing to avoid being hurt more.  But she's working toward pausing instead of reacting and asking herself, "What would Dale do?"  Because he never tells her how to act, but he always shows her. 
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Gus_Smedstad

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #83 on: 11 Jun 2019, 09:59 »

I do wonder how much May thinks about Dale. It’d make sense if Dale is more-or-less her role model, since she was introduced to the strip as a virtual character through Dale, and most of her meaningful interactions were largely through Dale, at least until recently.

Of course, I may be reading entirely too much into that. It’s a comic strip, after all, and “what does May think” is really “how does Jeph imagine May thinks” if you step back.
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brasca

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #84 on: 11 Jun 2019, 11:46 »

Nice variation of Bender’s catch phrase, Rokko.

Looks like she just found someone to take her mind off her own problems. 
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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #85 on: 11 Jun 2019, 13:13 »

These strips focused on the AI characters do a way better job of tackling trans issues than the Claire content.

Is anyone reading "O Human Star?"

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #86 on: 11 Jun 2019, 13:51 »

Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:
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AprilArcus

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #87 on: 11 Jun 2019, 14:17 »

Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:

It is wrong! Lois has a Providence accent.

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #88 on: 11 Jun 2019, 15:01 »

I see some distinct mentions of May as 'sociopath' and I can't help but wonder what the fuck some of you people think that word means?

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #89 on: 11 Jun 2019, 15:15 »

I thought this forum was supposed to be more polite than that. Y’know, more like “I don’t agree, and here’s why,” not “WTF you don’t know what that word means.”

Anyway, sociopath: someone who doesn’t see other people as people. Usually characterized by extremely antisocial behavior. I don’t think it’s hyperbole to say May’s been pretty close to that in pretty much all her interactions in the strip. That she actually felt bad about her interaction with Momo is unusual for her.
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cybersmurf

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #90 on: 11 Jun 2019, 15:21 »

I think I'm with OldGoat on this one - May is not evil or bad to the core. It's just poor impulse control, getting caught, and being formed by a "attack is the best defense" environment, where being crude is better than getting attached.

Faye got to Bubbles by constantly pushing her out of her comfort zone, but in a caring way. May's shell. has to be broken with a club, and I've got the feeling this might even be more literal than I'd care to admit. May has to experience first hand being vulnerable isn't a bad thing, or a sign of weakness. And that probably won't work by telling her, but by not having an alternative. Unless Roko finds a way, it's probably gonna be her chassis finally giving in, and other people flat out helping her while shut down (the Svarn Sven incident might just have been the first in a series, making May actually trust other people.
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #91 on: 11 Jun 2019, 15:44 »

I thought this forum was supposed to be more polite than that. Y’know, more like “I don’t agree, and here’s why,” not “WTF you don’t know what that word means.”

More the fact that this forum tries to avoid hurling around words that describe actual mental health illnesses and use them in a manner that either detracts from how serious they are or them ending up being used as an insult.
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jwhouk

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #92 on: 11 Jun 2019, 15:48 »

May's not the only webcomic character who's considered a sociopath. There's this busty Latina that (used to be) the star of a comic strip based out of Minneapolis. And of course there's Mike Warner from the Walkyverse.

I agree with OldGoat (CO's unite!) about the way that being "in the system" tends to corner you. Unless you're physically removed from that system (i.e., put in a completely different environment, like moving to a new state or such), your likelihood of getting stuck in a vicious circle is about 100%.

Oh, and as for recidivism in the US? I'd say it's "flip a coin" in many jurisdictions.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #93 on: 11 Jun 2019, 16:24 »

I think I'm with OldGoat on this one - May is not evil or bad to the core. It's just poor impulse control, getting caught, and being formed by a "attack is the best defense" environment, where being crude is better than getting attached.

Faye got to Bubbles by constantly pushing her out of her comfort zone, but in a caring way. May's shell. has to be broken with a club, and I've got the feeling this might even be more literal than I'd care to admit. May has to experience first hand being vulnerable isn't a bad thing, or a sign of weakness. And that probably won't work by telling her, but by not having an alternative. Unless Roko finds a way, it's probably gonna be her chassis finally giving in, and other people flat out helping her while shut down (the Svarn Sven incident might just have been the first in a series, making May actually trust other people.

I agree with this. There's an opportunity for character development but I do think she is at a point where if it doesn't happen or head in that direction soon, if I were one of the people she was treating that way, I'd cut off contact. Because on the flip side, people don't deserve to have friends treat them that way, no matter how down and out they are.

Speaking of Sven, I've also seen comments here about how he couldn't be altruistic, is super immature and thinks of no one but himself, etc. I think that's odd since his character flaws seem to be primarily around him not thinking about how his sex life affects those around him. Which, yeah, it's inconsiderate but other than that, he's been as decent a person as the rest of the cast. We know he's been unfaithful in the past and that he didn't end his fling with Faye even though they both knew that they had conflicting expectations. But he also was kind to Hanners, was cordial to Marten after his and Dora's break-up, apologized for how his behavior has affected Dora, handled Faye's barging into his meeting with his lawyer graciously, left Faye alone after Faye rejected his confession and we've never seen him coerce one of his one night stands into having sex.  Renee has done more sexual harassment on screen than Sven has.

 
« Last Edit: 11 Jun 2019, 16:35 by snufflebottoms »
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Gyrre

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #94 on: 11 Jun 2019, 17:33 »

Now, now. No one deserves to be forced to go into the world of CTRL+ALT+DELETE.
Didn't he reboot the whole thing with a different premise?
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TV4Fun

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #95 on: 11 Jun 2019, 18:27 »

Some characters are one-note jokes and will probably remain one-note jokes indefinitely. Crushbot will always be CRUSHBOT. Melon will always be the insane and slightly stupid comic relief. Personally, I like Crushbot and his third person narratives despite this, but kinda wish Melon would wander off and bother the cast of Ctrl-Alt-Delete or something.
Starting next week, Melon will be at the center of a new storyline where she teams up with Yelling Bird and the Thanksgiving turkeys to find her inner confidence and discover the true meaning of President's Day.
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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #96 on: 11 Jun 2019, 18:55 »

Apart from the 'geez, May', I have to say that I want a blue version of Roko's shirt.

EDIT: blue and black. See icon for color scheme.

There are places that will make you a custom shirt.
Or you could do it yourself. This design is pretty simple.
An Arts & Crafts place will be happy to sell you fabric paint and a suitable shirt.
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Perfectly Reasonable

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #97 on: 11 Jun 2019, 19:00 »

I wish to be reborn as bread after seeing Roko's new look.

You want a 'fancy and well put-together robot' to sniff you and vent her coolant?
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Castlerook

Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #98 on: 11 Jun 2019, 19:04 »

Hey, whatever gets the dough to rise. Who are we to judge?
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brasca

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Re: WCDT strips 4021-4025 (10th to 14th June 2019)
« Reply #99 on: 11 Jun 2019, 19:19 »

Is it wrong that every time I read Roko going full Boston with the accent, I immediately think she’s speaking like Lois Griffin?  :psyduck:

I hear Rachel Dratch’s Boston teen character from SNL.
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