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[ImRonBurgundy?]

Whoever came up with Ridley dragging Samus across the wall like a rag doll is a certifiable genius.

[Alex C]

Which, of course, begs the question: "Wait, why did we didn't we ever make a 2-D Metroid game with a bunch of her smash brothers moves?"

[Storm Rider]

Well, Ridley sort of does that one of the times you fight him in Metroid Prime 3, so that's probably where they got the idea. Of course, it was in first person so it wasn't quite as dramatic.

Also, video of every Final Smash. Turns out Ganondorf's isn't pig-faced Ganon after all, but the beast form from the final boss of Twilight Princess.

[0bsessions]

Whcih was called...Ganon. Anyone who didn't expect that upon noting that this was the Twilight Princess Ganon was only setting themself up for disappointment.

[Storm Rider]

I didn't say that I didn't expect it, it's just that from the way I heard it described conjured images of the old-school Ganon form.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Looking at the synonyms for the word "brawl", this series, should Nintendo choose to continue it, has a long way to go before running out of possible titles.  Super Smash Bros. Donnybrook, Super Smash Bros. Fracas... all the way down to the bottom of the barrel with Super Smash Bros. Altercation, Super Smash Bros. Heated Disagreement, and Super Smash Bros. Unfortunate Misunderstanding.

[Alex C]

It could also take a darker turn to attract the mountain dew swilling "mature" crowd that only plays GTA or FPS games because they think it's a sign they wear big boy pants. Just imagine Super Smash Brothers Pogrom or Super Smash Brothers Vendetta.

[RedLion]

Though SSB: Ethnic Cleansing may not be as marketable.

[muteKi]

I'm still waiting for SSB: Epic Clusterfuck.

[McTaggart]

Super Smash Brothers: Fisticuffs

[Jackie Blue]

Super Smash Bros.: Square Go

[Narr]

Super Smash Brothers: Fisticuffs

^Gets my vote.

[ImRonBurgundy?]

Super Smash Bros. Prison Riot.  Or Super Smash Bros. Dust-Up.

[Jackie Blue]

Super Smash Bros.: Bitchslap

[axerton]

every Final Smash.

I'm a little disappointed that toon link uses the triforce slash, I was hoping he'd be able to freeze time like in the final boss battles of Phantom Hourglass.

Also lucario can climb walls. Awsome.

[McTaggart]

How cool is the way they're handling spoilers on the dojo. That site is so well designed.

[Blue Kitty]

every Final Smash.

I'm a little disappointed that toon link uses the triforce slash, I was hoping he'd be able to freeze time like in the final boss battles of Phantom Hourglass.

Also lucario can climb walls. Awsome.

I'm just generally disappointed in some of the Final Smashs

[Jackie Blue]

The only thing that's really all that disappointing to me is that some of the final smashes appear to be a hell of a lot more useful than some of the others.

I mean, Peach's is cute and all, but compared to any of the sword-users or the Starfox characters?

[will: wanton sex god]

Has anyone heard anything about plans to patch the game should imbalancing be noticeable?   After the VERY strenuous testing well all be doing for nintendo I'm sure some characters will be obviously stronger than others?  Itd' be nice if a fox like character got toned down a bit, if one reveals itself.  Also maybe bonus content eventually?




Also regarding final smashes: I wonder if the potency of the final smash has anything to do with how "good" the character is, and is a way to compensate?  I dont know, just an idea.

[Jackie Blue]

I seriously disapprove of the idea of "balancing" characters if they turn out to be "too good".  It's just a way for whiny kids to whine slightly less because "OMG that character is so cheap".

I mean, let me take you back to Mortal Kombat 2, arcade edition.  No matter how you slice it, Reptile was a weak-ass character in almost every conceivable way.  But you know what?  A good player could still beat any other character with him.  I used to do it all the time.

In fact, having some characters that are "better" inherently is a good thing because it gives newer players a fighting chance against veterans.

[axerton]

The only thing that's really all that disappointing to me is that some of the final smashes appear to be a hell of a lot more useful than some of the others.

I mean, Peach's is cute and all, but compared to any of the sword-users or the Starfox characters?

are you kidding? from the looks of that video peach's does 40% damage to every player, puts them to sleep and dumps a bunch recovery items for you. you use it eat as many peaches (preferably singing ' millions of peaches' if you're playing with friends) as you want then get a free smash or throw.

The ones that do look bad are Pokemon trainer's (which only did 10% to pickachu)  and Lucas and Ness, and maybe didy's (unless he's easier to control than the video would give you to believe)

[will: wanton sex god]

I seriously disapprove of the idea of "balancing" characters if they turn out to be "too good".  It's just a way for whiny kids to whine slightly less because "OMG that character is so cheap".

I mean, let me take you back to Mortal Kombat 2, arcade edition.  No matter how you slice it, Reptile was a weak-ass character in almost every conceivable way.  But you know what?  A good player could still beat any other character with him.  I used to do it all the time.

In fact, having some characters that are "better" inherently is a good thing because it gives newer players a fighting chance against veterans.

If some characters are better, vets will be using that to their advantage.  Pros playing counterstrike dont use the TMP, Street Fighter Third Strike (most) people dont use 12, its all about tiers, almost all games have them.  I just hope smash is relatively even.   There are cheap characters.  If brawl is like melee, online might be a little less fun with everyone choosing falco/fox/whatever other tier 1 characters.

Do you seriously think that if some characters are better they won't be used?  Did you maybe mean easier to pick up?  That hardly makes them better compared to a seasoned pro with an upper level char.  Meh.

[Ozymandias]

Whoever did the Diddy one sucks or, at least, with practice Diddy should be about as useful as Yoshi's.

Also, the P.T. one is a LOT of damage in one unstoppable line, the other character just was knocked out of the way, might've jumped.

[muteKi]

Meanwhile, Pikachu's final smash is awesome because Pulseman is awesome. (The volt tackle is basically just Pulseman's voltteccer under a different form. I really wanted to see a Game Freak character that wasn't a Pokemon in this game. Oh well.)

[Narr]

As a long time fighting game fanboy, I would be in favor of rebalancing later on should it be absolutely necessary.  The thing about Smash is that it shouldn't ever be too much of a problem because for the most part, they've done a fair job balancing the game in the past.  There will always be good and bad characters, but as long as the good characters are spread out enough so that it's not just 3 guys out of the 35, and the bad characters are like Dan where they are so hilarious in use that losing against him/her makes it that much more sour, then that's okay.

I trust Nintendo more than Capcom when it comes to balancing, we'll say.

[Jackie Blue]

Do you seriously think that if some characters are better they won't be used?  Did you maybe mean easier to pick up?  That hardly makes them better compared to a seasoned pro with an upper level char.  Meh.

I suppose I come from an older generation of fighting gamers who took pride in using "bad" characters to win against "good" characters.  It's just not fun for me to be really good at a fighting game and then completely dick out the fun by also using a "good" character.  I play fighting games to have a challenging match, not just to "pwn n00bs".

And yes, I do realise I am in the vast minority in that, but seriously, that's how it was back in the day.  When MK2 was huge, almost none of the "expert" players used Scorpion every time; in fact, the top-tier players almost always used the "random" option.

[Storm Rider]

I actually like that there's a 'random' option here too. Considering I'll probably only be playing online against you people or my meatlife friends, I don't really care about what 'veterans' or 'competitive players' do. I mean, I'm pretty damn good at Melee if I may say so myself, but I think gaming tournaments are pretty stupid on every level. Especially since the tournament play limits to one on one playing on Final Destination with all items turned off, which basically ruins all of the fun of Smash Brothers in the first place.

Seriously, if we get a QC game going on, items and Final Smashes are staying on and the stage will be random, I am not gonna put up with that fucking attitude about the 'purity' of the competition or any of that bullshit. I'm fairly certain nobody's like that around here anyway, but I'm putting that out there just to let everyone know. Smash Brothers is about having crazy, chaotic fun, not bitching and moaning about losing because of some lucky item grab.

[muteKi]

You almost make it sound like Melee doesn't have a random option or anything.

[will: wanton sex god]

... Final Destination with all items turned off, which basically ruins all of the fun of Smash Brothers in the first place.

Seriously, if we get a QC game going on, items and Final Smashes are staying on and the stage will be random, I am not gonna put up with that fucking attitude about the 'purity' of the competition or any of that bullshit. I'm fairly certain nobody's like that around here anyway, but I'm putting that out there just to let everyone know. Smash Brothers is about having crazy, chaotic fun, not bitching and moaning about losing because of some lucky item grab.

I can agree with this one a lot of levels, but who's to say how Smash is supposed to be played?  If it's SUPPOSED to have all those items and stuff, then there wouldn't be the option to turn it off.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but another party type of fighting game, Sega's powerstone was intensely chaotic and item heavy, but didn't have the option to turn the items off.

9 times out of 10 it'll be my personal preference to have the items all on, but I don't have anything bad to say against people who turn them off.  Playing on one stage only is kinda boring though.

[muteKi]

Sega's powerstone

Actually, it was designed by Capcom. I'm not sure on the publisher. It might be SEGA since the arcade version was NAOMI-based.

[Ozymandias]

Agreed with Will. I don't think there's any "right" way to play Smash, as long as you're having fun.

[Alex C]

I hate having items on. Always have, always will. They're OK if you have a 4 person match going, I guess, but I generally dislike it when it's one on one or something and it becomes a case of mario kart syndrome.

[will: wanton sex god]

Sega's powerstone

Actually, it was designed by Capcom. I'm not sure on the publisher. It might be SEGA since the arcade version was NAOMI-based.

Ah youre right, it was just released for the dreamcast.  I can even picture all the startup screens and the blue and yellow capcom coming up.
doh.

[Storm Rider]

Agreed with Will. I don't think there's any "right" way to play Smash, as long as you're having fun.

That's my concern though. I think making Smash into a 'serious' fighting game sucks all the fun out of it, and taking the things that separate it from regular fighting games like the items and the dynamic stages in the name of 'fairness' or whatever is lame.

[Alex C]

Right. And they haven't done that, so I just don't see what's the problem with tourneys and turning items off. The game's got broad appeal regardless.

[Storm Rider]

OK, let me rephrase this because I think I'm being misunderstood. I don't have a problem with the fact that they have the option to turn items off and so forth, I think people who do that are lame and boring and I hope that if we get into the habit of regular matches between people on this forum we play it in the normal manner because the game doesn't track stats anyway so who cares whether you win or lose because the game is crazy and unpredictable. (At least, not those type of stats, I don't think.)

[Narr]

My friends in meatlife are the type that do no items, final destination and I hate it.  I tell them I don't find it more pure that way because there's absolutely no using the stage to your advantage, there's no factor in skill with regards on how to use the various different items in the game, and that it just tended to suck all the fun of smash out for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there IS significant skill in using each various stage to your advantage and in being a complete item ninja/whore, right?  If I want a "pure" fighter, I'll pop in King of Fighters 11 and level the playing field because I'm genuinely good at those types of things anyway.  I say let Smash Bros be Smash Bros.  Items on, random level.

[Jackie Blue]

Exactly, half the point of Smash Bros. has always been using the stage properly.

Also, items are good if, for example, you have a girlfriend who sucks at fighting games and you don't want her to throw the controller at you because you win every single match.     (That is also a good reason to never use Fox in Melee)

[Spinless]

I remember me and my friends always had our *own* characters we'd always use, I'd always use Link. Two of us would always choose Fox, and those two people would always be in 2nd and 1st place. I never got familiar with fox, but didn't his moves set allow for invincibility by constantly using the same two dash attacks? One for back and forth and another for shooting up into the air?

[Storm Rider]

Fox players need to be taken out back and shot. Fuck them.

[Spinless]

So, they're not skilled, just dicks?

[Jackie Blue]

Fox was just pretty much unstoppable in the hands of a skilled player.  To the point that he wasn't fun to play.  Giving one character the best projectile AND Reflector was just overkill.

[Storm Rider]

Yeah, Fox is just totally fucking broken to the point where if you play as him with a modicum of skill, you're just being a dick to the other player. Luckily since wavedashing is out and his blaster doesn't cause flinching anymore, they seem to be balancing him out a bit better. Plus his Final Smash seems to be pretty easy to avoid. Just stay airborne until the time runs out and there's not a whole lot it can do.

[Alex C]

I like fighting in different stages (with the exception of hyrule; just takes so damn long and really really favors Samus and Fox) but hate the items. Part of this is because my brother and I are so even in skill that where exactly the item happens to drop is 99.999% more important than anything else. In a strange way, items both become incredibly predictable AND disruptive when it's just the two of us. If it's a 4 way brawl though I couldn't possibly care less though. Of course, a big chunk of it is probably just because he's my brother and sibling rivalry and all that crap.

[Thy Dungeonman]

I guess I must have really sucked, because I didn't win every time I played as Fox. I guess that's one reason I don't like him. Whenever I play as Fox everyone expects me to win and know all of this technical stuff, when really I'm just average.

[Scarychips]

^The same thing happens to me every time I play as Fox.

I really don't like playing as Fox, he's just too quick while begin heavyweight when he falls. I really don't like him.

[Alex C]

Yeah, fox is great in skilled hands but if you don't know what you're doing he's a great way to kill yourself.

[CarbonatedWeasel]

I was never good with fox, ever.  He just dropped like a brick and I really couldn't control him well at all.

When Brawl finally comes out I its going to be a very humbling experience for me cause as far as I am concerned I am pretty much the best Smash Bros player I know.  So much to the point that usually people dont want me to use Yoshi so that way they have a chance.  But when I play online, there are going to be those people who play this game for money, like, thats all they do, that is their thing, I am going to get the crap kicked out of me so bad.  But at least in the most fun way.

[will: wanton sex god]

Yeah, Fox is just totally fucking broken to the point where if you play as him with a modicum of skill, you're just being a dick to the other player. Luckily since wavedashing is out and his blaster doesn't cause flinching anymore, they seem to be balancing him out a bit better. Plus his Final Smash seems to be pretty easy to avoid. Just stay airborne until the time runs out and there's not a whole lot it can do.

fox's blaster didnt cause flinching in melee, falco's did though.

[McTaggart]

Final destination really sucks for me since my character is Peach. She's a really good air control character (oh god neutral a in the air) but in final destination people don't go in the air by choice and without items it's kinda hard to put them there. I think Fox was maybe a little overpowered, but playing on final destination really amplified that. On levels like that the blaster is really powerful since there's no elevation and nowhere to hide and dash attacks and being faster than your opponent on the ground will win you close range.

Fox was pretty much perfect for final destination, Peach better at things like that completely wacky floating pokemon level.