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D&D Campaign setting help

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Alex C:
Wait, why the heck would you make a Bard/Sorceror? A straight Bard is usually better off cutting to the chase and using illusions/enchantments to convince everyone to just kill the guy on their right and then clean up the mess and sort out the loot afterwards for you while a Sorceror just fires up Wail of the Banshee and calls it good.

MusicScribbles:
Sorceror's still have a much wider selection of spells to choose from though.

Can I ask a question of D&D players here?
How do you play out combat? My group just recently started trying out tiles and 'makeshift' figures, and we're having trouble making the adjustment.
Also, I've always felt like a bad DM when I just let my players randomly multiclass as another class that they have no way of training for. I find it harder to really get them to roleplay in D&D, in comparison to when we play something like Hunter.

KvP:
The bard is a hard PnP class. Most people don't really know how to run one, and as a result just looking at the stats most people have no idea why you would. In video games they suck (except for the Blade in BG2, which was a meatier fighter/mage with lore and special abilities) But, like with just about any support / magic class, playing smart in a tabletop game can give you a significant edge in any situation. But that's easier said than done.


--- Quote from: MusicScribbles ---How do you play out combat? My group just recently started trying out tiles and 'makeshift' figures, and we're having trouble making the adjustment.
Also, I've always felt like a bad DM when I just let my players randomly multiclass as another class that they have no way of training for. I find it harder to really get them to roleplay in D&D, in comparison to when we play something like Hunter.
--- End quote ---
Speed is essential. The slower the round, the quicker you get tired of the combat. We don't rely a whole lot on figurines and mats. They're good for figuring distance and AoE, but we usually just play hard & fast. Figure out initiative first round, stick to that, and go through the motions.

Honestly, while D&D is the most popular pen & paper game in existence, it isn't the best lended system to roleplaying by a long shot. It's a poindexter system, where most things are governed by numbers and dice (that having been said, it isn't rolemaster. Jesus, that game.) and it's incredibly easy to play as though your characters are their stats, since so much is accounted for in character creation you have a good sense of what your character absolutely can and cannot do from the get-go. You're less inclined to take risk, and less likely to think outside the possibilities afforded by your roll modifiers.

Alex C:
I have no beef with bards OR sorcerors. It's the idea of a bard-sorceror multiclass that's giving me headaches. I just have a rough time believing that the wider array of low powered spells you could pick up would offset the hit you'd take to caster level and would cripple your spell progression in both classes as well as hit points and BAB.

Anyway, I think it's important to remember that D&D's legacy lies in war games and that ol' Gygax himself comes across as a bit of a munchkiny powergamer.

While I don't agree with a lot of his other articles, Ron Edward makes some interesting points in this rather well done gaming article:
 http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/20/

I even have some anecdotal stories of my own that gibe rather well with the article; my uncle was in the military and played a very war-centric D&D campaign in the mid '70s at his base to kill time. They weren't roleplayers (yet) and they weren't playing adventurers so much as they were playing  a war party in a campaign against an orc horde, and at the time Dungeons and Dragons wasn't viewed as anything any more special than the other ways of playing such games. Their characters gained levels sure, but it had as much to do with going from rookies to veterans in a larger ovearching struggle and progress was measured more in "captured" objectives (which awarded experience points) than they were character development or other fuzzy roleplaying centric ideas. D&D has obviously evolved quite a bit since then, but it's worth remembering that D&D isn't Amber or even the WoD and the idea that you're playing a game and trying to win was never something that I think D&D's creators were really interested in downplaying.

bryanthelion:
I quickly browsed through this and my I caught on bard/sorcerer combo.


A better class ( and I don't get why the FUCK my DM didn't recommend this class to me) is the Beguiler. It has all these neat bardesque spells (and I think more thrown in) AND trapfinding.

So its like, "MOVE OVER BARD! The REAL silver-tongue is here."

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