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AMAZING BOOOOOOOK

12 (10.1%)

Stephenie Meyer is a GENIUS

4 (3.4%)

You're all wanks

103 (86.6%)

Total Members Voted: 89

[20 jazz funk greats]

overprotective, emotionally domineering, manipulative relationships are ok so long as the guy is really really really really hot.

and sparkly.

[Dazed]

Twilight is simply another perfect example of American entertainment that caters to the absolute lowest common denominator. It can go on the trophy shelf next to the Larry the Cable Guy DVDs and Creed CDs.

[De_El]

I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.

This is basically the most annoying opinion someone can have about shitty pop culture.  You can love the hell out of a bad book and that's okay because people have different tastes, but the whole "Oh come on, you know you love it" thing is so infuriatingly stupid because AUGH. Who the fuck are you to say what we like? Have we been friends for years? Are you in our heads? Sod off.

[GenericName]

I VERY MUCH THINK I SHOULD GO GET SOME MORE WATER, I'M FEELING A BIT PARCHED.

I CAN SEE YOUR MOTIVATIONS FOR THIS SEEM TO BE TRUE AND ALIGN WITH MY OPINIONS OF WATER AND SUCH. CARRY ON!

See? Much pleasanter.

[Liz]

I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.

I enjoy twilight because it is completely horrid. it is despicable and vapid and written badly, but I still enjoy reading them to pass time without expending brain power.

But I also agree with everyone else in this thread. So.

[sandysmilinstrange]

I thought they were kind of crummy books BUT! I probably would have eaten that shit up in my younger years. And sometimes a not-so-great book will lead to a good one.

And also reading enriching the mind and whatnot is great, but mostly for me it is for escapism. If people want to escape into something that is as appealing as a turd in a punch bowl for me, that's their option.

Also good, light tween/teen literature is hard to come by. Kids have their Dahls, Baums, Lewises and Whites. Adults have a wealth of great stuff to read. But there is that tricky phase where it's hard to make the leap from Charlotte's Web to Charlotte Bronte. And sometimes somebody wants a book that they can skim through and not have to search for deeper meaning. From time to time everybody would rather have a burger than a fine cut of steak (or whatever the vegetarian equivalent is).

I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't like the books, but it really isn't my business trying to talk somebody else out of liking them or even thinking they're good.

The movie is awful, though.

[Alex C]

I'm only interested in Twilight because it's popular. I like to know what it is that people find interesting in any given piece of entertainment. Even if the work isn't interesting, it's nice to know what other people are up to.

[Chesire Cat]

Seriously, Ive tried pretty hard to not bring this up again for a while, but damn a lot of the time this forum has it's head shoved up it's clique-y ass.

These books are not that great, but they are merely entertainment, we can agree on this cant we?  Let the people enjoy it, enjoy it, if its not for you, then disregard it.  Im getting castigated in the Across the Universe topic for having enjoyed something that is admittedly not great cinema.  Peach is getting picked on for enjoying something that is admittedly not great literature.

It seems that this forum is overly-concerned with carving out their identity of being ahead of the pack (often mislabeled as hating something because it's popular).  Ok so Twilight is popular, it falls somewhat short of a cultural phenomenon but we get it, you hated it before it was cool, you always hated it, and these are all the reasons why.  Sure it has flaws, yes you can point them out, how very enlightened of you.  But that doesn't mean Peach or any other fan is wrong to like it.  Backing them into corners where they have to make stupid arguments to defend themselves, then telling them their arguments are wrong, and their debating skills are wrong too, and it's probably all the horrible shitty mind eroding literature they enjoy thats causing it, and they should fall down a well and die and shut the fuck up while doing it, doesn't really change anything.  All it allows you to to is pat yourselves on your self-righteous backs and make someone else feel small.

You are being uppity forum bullies and are doing the forum a disservice by making it uninviting to anyone without the time and energy required to weather the storm and break-through to the forum regulars clique.

[Alex C]

I dunno, I would hold that it's a cultural phenomenon. And whether people think it deserves to be or not, I still think the series is an interesting development regardless. That also probably holds true for many Twilighters, when it comes right down to it. Fandom is something people do together, whether it's over a band or a book series. Even if I don't get it, I don't really think that's a bad thing and it's definitely ridiculous to want to actually stop people from reading Twilight just because it isn't the greatest thing ever. I mean, shit, by that standard we'd all just be sitting around with our thumbs up our asses until something genuinely amazing came about.

[StMonkey]

I don't know about the across the universe thread, but people in here are explicitly saying they don't think exactly what you are saying they do!

Also, when she says this:

I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.

that's gonna grind some gears because she is saying that whomever she is speaking to obviously is just covering up their trail of loving it by being hateful.
But they're not
Everyone is saying it doesn't matter if it's popular or not, it's a terrible book. Miss Peach here is saying 'nuh-uh! You don't like it cause it's popular!' to which surprisingly level-headed responders say No, this is why we don't like it. To which Miss Peach responds....'Yeah you do!'
Where in there is being clique-y?

[Alex C]

Agreed. I think it's perfectly OK to read Twilight. I also think I have reasons for not finishing the series that go well beyond elitism.

[20 jazz funk greats]

no one was making fun of her for liking the books.
but the "i wish i could find a guy like edward in real life" and "you're just hatin' on twilight to try to be cool" stuff makes me roll my eyes.

[Dimmukane]

The reason I've been an asshole in this thread is because it was fun. 

In all honesty, it was an easy-going thread.  So was Across the Universe, and it still is.  That's not really what I'd call a castigation.


The deal with it now is that Keri decided to defend it for more than a couple of posts.  Other forumites have said they liked it, but acknowledged that it's bad.  She did this, but then continued defending it, which was probably not the best of ideas, because it started this whole shit-covered sparkle argument.  We were already talking about how bad it was without much of a fuss, and she was saying she didn't care, and then at some point she labeled us, which we rejected vehemently. 

She's not in the wrong for liking Twilight, she's just pissed people off by saying that their reasons for not liking Twilight were a farce.



Keri, you're pretty cool.  But you're fanatically defending this book, and this forum ain't too kind to fanatical defenses.  You're also the only person actually trying to defend it.  I'd give up, stew over it for a little while to yourself, then go play some video games or something to take your mind off it.  Or sleep.  It's getting kind of late.

 

[est]

no one was making fun of her for liking the books.
but the "i wish i could find a guy like edward in real life" and "you're just hatin' on twilight to try to be cool" stuff makes me roll my eyes.

this. also:

Im getting castigated in the Across the Universe topic for having enjoyed something that is admittedly not great cinema.

You're getting yelled at in another thread so you defend yourself in this one?

Peach is getting picked on for enjoying something that is admittedly not great literature.

No she isn't.  There were some snide comments earlier because she was carrying on like a typical schoolgirl.  But she is one, so whatever, they died out.  Things weren't even all that bad in here until Peach made this post saying we should be grateful to a hack for glurging out shitty fanfiction because it's for the children, then tried saying that J.K Rowling is important because she has a lot of money.  I saw the argument as a function of her attitude, not what she was saying.

[MadassAlex]

I think you are all just trying to put up a "I'm-to-cool-for-Twilight-so-I'm-going-to-post-about-how-bad-it-sucks-on-the-internet" font.
Accept the fact that deep down, inside, you slightly enjoyed it.

Bzzzt.

To me, Twilight is sloppily written, vapid, shallow and honestly quite disturbing in its restrained sexuality. The story is poor, the plot moves at a snail's pace and every little bit of genuine darkness, interest and exploration that's possible with this narrative scenario is snuffed out for the sake of cheap thrills.

Not only that, the vampires suck. They are one of my favourite monsters, ever, and Twilight has made them into something totally unworthy of fear or hatred. Vampires are supposed to be masters of an unknowable, arcane darkness, feeding on the living for pleasure just as much as hunger. The social implications of vampirism carry a lot of possibility, but here, due to lack of weaknesses, they simply continue to live in a fashion nonsensical to beings of their power.

The issue is that Twilight isn't as much a story with true expository, or an otherworldly study of an entity that exists only in imagination as much as it's fan-service. It's like if Dragonball Z was hundreds of hours of Bulma's tits. Sure, it might be worth a look for a while, but tits don't do the job on their own. They are simply tits. Tits do not have a plot, or interesting characters. They are simply tits, and entertaining in small doses or when meaningfully implemented. But they are still effectively tits. Fake tits.

What I'm basically saying here is that Twilight is about as quality as your average fan hentai. It's cool if people enjoy it, but marching around claiming that there's any kind of depth to it is silly. Twilight is a shallow fantasy about a girl with little self-confidence finding a powerful boy to do everything for her. Even the premise is uninteresting.

[Surgoshan]

[yelley]

how bad is it that i kind of want this to be my avatar?

[Nodaisho]

What's wrong with a little sparkle motion?

[AanAllein]

Dammit I changed my avatar like 15 minutes before reading this post.

In more on topic news, after your earlier posts I am looking forward to messing with my students next year in regard to Twlight (as I'll be at an all girls school, I am expecting the vast majority to have read the series)

[Dazed]

I'm pretty much in full agreement with everything est said.

[0bsessions]

Also good, light tween/teen literature is hard to come by. Kids have their Dahls, Baums, Lewises and Whites. Adults have a wealth of great stuff to read. But there is that tricky phase where it's hard to make the leap from Charlotte's Web to Charlotte Bronte. And sometimes somebody wants a book that they can skim through and not have to search for deeper meaning. From time to time everybody would rather have a burger than a fine cut of steak (or whatever the vegetarian equivalent is).

This simply is untrue. Anyone old enough to get Twilight is old enough to get the Vampire Chronicles. While not perfect, the first three books in that series at least are leaps and bounds above this garbage. Then you've got stuff like Lord of the Rings and His Dark Materials, which are more than suitable for the demographic these books aim themselves at.

[AanAllein]

Eh, I disagree that Lord of the Rings is suitable. I consider myself fairly literate (not as in "I read good hur" but as in I am fairly well-read) and I couldn't manage to slog through it til the films gave me a visual framework to work with (so when I was, what, 18?). It's hardly the sort of thing that would appeal to young teenage girls. His Dark Materials I've only read the first book of, but while it's certainly "more than suitable" for the demographic, I think the key element here is some kind of romance. Which certainly isn't apparent in Northern Lights.

I dunno, I think this demographic should just be pushed more towards Harry Potter. It may not be amazing literature by any definition, but it hits all the right buttons in terms of appealing to that age group while at the same time managing to develop interesting characters, plots that require careful attention, themes beyond "hey abstinence not killing your girlfriend is difficult." It's just a shame that we don't see more books able to appeal to a broad range of young readers that actually might encourage further reading. I enjoyed Goosebumps as a kid, but the fact I was reading decent novels at the same time certainly wasn't related to R.L. Stine's writing...

[Joseph]

The demographic in question is 16 year old girls.  I should think they'd be well beyond Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and the like.

Eh, I disagree that Lord of the Rings is suitable. I consider myself fairly literate (not as in "I read good hur" but as in I am fairly well-read) and I couldn't manage to slog through it til the films gave me a visual framework to work with (so when I was, what, 18?).

And I did it in elementary school.  It's pretty dependant on the person.

[sandysmilinstrange]

So, Lord of the Rings and Vampire Chronicles? Because I know the former kept me busy for about a weekend and then what's left (I am not familiar with The Vampire Chronicles, I don't think)? I'm not saying that there isn't good literature for young folk to read. I'm just saying who really cares if they want to read something that doesn't challenge them every now and again? If they get a crush on Edward Cullen for a year or two it's not that big of a deal. It's not any less healthy than grown-ass women I know waiting to meet their Mr. Darcy or Rochester.

They aren't good books. I've said that several times. But I went through a huge Sweet Valley High phase and turned out just fine.

Edit:

Oh, the Anne Rice books? See, I'd argue that those are some of the most fuck-boring things I've ever picked up. Purple prose and angst that you can wring from the pages? No thank you.

[AanAllein]

I was thinking more like 12-14 y/o's, which I figured was the main demographic for Twilight. I'll clarifiy I'm not saying that I think LOTR is necessarily too difficult for that demographic anyway, but rather that it's unlikely to inspire enthusiastic interest in the novels for most readers in that demographic. I mean, I've read a lot of books at high school - I didn't like most of them. (Animal Farm was about the only exception, off the top of my head)

Part of the problem I think, in bridging that gap between younger literature and more adult literature, is that at that age a lot of your interest in pop culture/hobbies is based on what your friends are doing. I know I watched TV shows, listened to music or whatever around that age simply because it's what other people were talking about. So it's probably unsurprising that you see these fads of books in this age group, be it Goosebumps, Harry Potter, Twilight or what have you - while you'll certainly have isolated pockets of teenagers getting into a decades-old series of books, you can hardly expect it to have the popularity of a more recent series. Let's just hope the next book fad for teens is of a higher quality.

edit: and, oh, I didn't realise Vampire Chronicles were Anne Rice either. I'm loathe to recommend anything written by a woman who thinks it's a smart idea to fire her editors and rant about how amazing her writing is...

[MadassAlex]

It's pretty obvious that she didn't have any editors. The Vampire Chronicles (from what I've read) are quite adequately written, but the lady needs to step back a bit and actually re-read what's on the page because it becomes ridiculous.

[0bsessions]

I find that the Vampire Chronicles are perfectly salvageable reading provided you don't wander too far past Queen of the Damned.

[Alex C]

What amuses me most about Anne Rice fandom is that there were still a few people out there who were truly surprised when she returned to Catholicism. Lestat's primary themes tend to be disillusionment and dissatisfaction with an entirely material existence. At one point Lestat reveals that his big fear is that there really isn't any underlying meaning to the universe, and frankly, he never seems gets any farther in his own personal growth than "Well, everyone has found their own personal reason for being... except me." I guess it just hits me as a li'l naive not to consider the possibility that she may have been a bit dissatisfied with the answers she came up with while exploring the world through the lens of her atheism.

This is not to say that I expected her to go back to the Church or anything, (I'm not quite that arrogant), but I will say that doubt always seemed at least as good of an explanation for her writing as the idea that she had struggled with these things in the past and successfully put them behind her.



Also, yeah, the Vampire Chronicles are florid, angsty, too damned long and the wheels completely fly off around Queen of the Damned.

[Gemmwah]

His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.

[Liz]

Hey guys, guess what I'm reading.

C'mon, guess!

[Jace]

Ender's Shadow?

[KvP]

I know I know

Gravity's Rainbow

[Joseph]

Finnegans Wake?

[De_El]

On Bullshit?

[Liz]

Keep guessing boys, none of you are even close.

[0bsessions]

Monster Blood IV? I am pretty sure that would be a step up from Twilight!

[De_El]

(I would actually recommend On Bullshit cus it's an interesting read and as a bonus looks silly on your bookshelf)

[Dazed]

Um, Twilight?

[KvP]

I got it. Easy Riders, Raging Bulls.

That's what I'd be reading were I trying to get someone to guess what it is I was reading.

[est]

I find that the Vampire Chronicles are perfectly salvageable reading provided you don't wander too far past Queen of the Damned.

This is pretty true.  They are average books for a good pulp read up until that one.  Unfortunately I also purchased the Body Thief and Memnoch the Devil novels, both of which I started to read but stopped, as they were horrid.

[Joseph]

I figured it out.

She's reading this thread!

I bet you that when she sees this reply, she has no choice but to agree.

[KvP]

What if she has an assistant dictate the thread to her?

[MadassAlex]

His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.

I was pretty pissed at how the movie was so lame.

At least it had the armoured bears.

All this lame shit! Then, POOF, armoured bears! Fuck yes.

[supersheep]

GOD THAT FILM IS SO BAD

The first thing my friend said after we were finished going "What the FUCK?" at the ridiculously abrupt ending was, "When the revolution comes, those fuckers are first up against the wall."

Also, vaguely on topic, The Guardian's Lucy Mangan says that reading Twilight is a bad thing for teenagegirls to do.

[KvP]

His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.

Ah, Gemmwah, does His Dark Materials feature cold, hard, immaculately sculpted manflesh? If so, does it sparkle?

Also that Guardian article's good.

[est]

Yeah, I really didn't like that movie.  Nicole Kidman needs to not be in anything, ever.

[Scandanavian War Machine]

agreed!

(god i hate her)

[Nodaisho]

His Dark Materials is actually a great example of what Twilight's demographic should be reading. Those books are amazing, and I only wish the movie version of The Golden Compass had done the book justice, because I would have loved to have seen The Subtle Knife as a movie, as that's probably my favourite of the three books.

Ah, Gemmwah, does His Dark Materials feature cold, hard, immaculately sculpted manflesh? If so, does it sparkle?

Also that Guardian article's good.

Well, it's got Daniel Craig in the arctic. And it has sparkly dust.

[Dazed]

I actually thought the movie was an ok adaptation. Nicole Kidman was a mistake, but I thought the rest of the characters were fine (Scoresby was perfect, go Sam Elliot). I think in light of how serious the series gets further in, people forget that the first book was much more of a children's book than the two which followed it. As far as the ending to the movie went, I had no problem with it, assuming a sequel. I likened it to mixing the beginnings/endings of the LoTR films.

[est]

Nicole Kidman was a mistake

This should be at the foremost for any casting agent wanting someone of Nicole Kidman's general description in a movie.  "NB: Nicole Kidman would be a mistake" should be at the top of basically every writing pad used by anyone in the biz.