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Faye is friendly to customers!

Sven is serene and sensible!

Marten is mean business!

Angus is eaten by an allosaur!

Purple Monkey Dishwasher is pink!

Sven is pregnant.

[PHDrillSergeant]

It's been so long since we've seen Sven, I got mixed up and thought he was FAYE'S brother and this week I've been increasingly going "WHAAAAAAT".

Today I looked at the cast page because...you know...this can't be right.

Never have I been happier to be wrong.

[cesium133]

Faye is a Bad Brotherfucker, but she objects to that sort of brotherfuckery.

[Mr. Doctor]

Woah Sven... Never go full retard. I've never seen anyone in real life being this kind of stupid. Is this a thing? I'm scared

[FayeDouble]

I really hope this isn't the last we see of Sven, I really like him as a character. Faye's being strong now but we know she has a strong attraction to him so here's hoping she won't blow it, and stay strong. There are a bunch of possibilities on what could happen with Faye, Angus, and Sven...I wonder if Faye will tell Angus what Sven said?

[Barmymoo]

Please don't use the word retard to mean someone who's just being an idiot - it has a medical meaning which isn't relevant here.

[T]

I was thinking... What if Angus is cool with threesomes? Wouldn't this solve the problems for all?

[Method of Madness]

No. No, it would not.

[Is it cold in here?]

Faye apparently isn't.

[cesium133]

"Threesomes are like communism. Good idea in theory, bad idea in practice." (I may have misremembered that quote.)

[Oglokoog]

What did he THINK would happen?

"Threesomes are like communism. Good idea in theory, bad idea in practice." (I may have misremembered that quote.)

At least threesomes are good in theory.

[Mr_Rose]

"Threesomes are like communism. Good idea in theory, bad idea in practice." (I may have misremembered that quote.)

Threesomes, like any relationship, work fine as long as all participants are rational adults. Therein, of course, lies the fatal flaw.

[Smallest]

Sven is inadvertently stumbling into "nice guy" territory, [...]

What the ... what ?!?

He genuinely seems to believe that being honest about your feelings will make things work out how you want them to do.

Well OK "nice guy" isnt exactly a clearly defined term in the first place, but still I dont see how "being honest about your feelings" fits into any definitions I'm aware of.

Nice guys are typically thought of as people of low self esteem, overly sensitive/feminine, they end up too easily in the friend zone of girls they fancy, they are respectful towards women (at least they think so) while the girls they fancy end up with douchebags, etc.

If theres anything Sven doesnt lack is confidence. And he isnt very sensitive at all, either.

I think you're thinking of a slightly different thing than we are. The definition I (and I assume Barmy) was using is:

A 'Nice Guy' is a guy who thinks that just because he is nice, he is entitled to the women he is nice to (see also friendzone*). The sort of guy who says 'hey, you passed out drunk, and I didn't even take advantage of you! obviously I'm better than that guy you're dating that you complained about once! you won't date me? well fuck you I hope you get raped!' (though not a direct quote, a friend just related this story).

Someone that thinks that fulfilling the very basics of being a non-criminal, okay person means that they are NICE and deserve a woman. Generally they are not actually nice, and only fulfilled those basic human decencies because they thought it would get them laid.

Sven obviously isn't to this extreme, but implying 'I was honest, so you have to date me!' is pretty close skirting.

_{*some people genuinely use friendzone to say that they will only be friends with a person, never romantic, but in the context of nice guys or the internet, 'friendzone' is used to imply that friendship is only a means to an end (fucking) rather than an end in itself, and that it's a penalty, rather than good to have a friend.}

[dilbert719]

"I clearly just put my foot in something, and I don't know what. I'm not really in my element here. What did I just do?"

Seriously? Could even Sven be so far lost in clueless self-absorption?

He certainly appears to be, if reacting to "Oh my God you're an idiot" with "Is that a no?" is any indication. He hasn't expressed an inkling of a clue that Faye was in a rough emotional state, he told her that his confession of love to someone who was already taken was "not a big deal," and all of this came after Faye explicitly told him not to hit her with anything big. That's about as clueless and self-absorbed as anyone I've seen in this comic for a while.

Honestly, I think it'd show more awareness to realize there's even a question to ask here; the alternative, just walking away, could very easily result in him just stewing and not getting any clarity. It'd be more impressive if he did ask.

We'll see, though. Probably in two weeks' time, unless the guest week is followed by "The Saga of Spathe Ham".

[KOK]

On the other hand, how would you likeit if someone told you he had something to say to you. You tell him that this is not a good time for something big, and he says. "OK. See you later."?

[Method of Madness]

Isn't that how they should respond?

[Barmymoo]

Yeah I'd say so. If someone says "hey, we need to talk" and the other person says anything that indicates that now isn't a good time, then the correct response (unless what you need to talk about is an immediate threat to someone's life or something) is "ok, well let me know when you're able to talk about this" and then you leave.

[T]

On the other hand, how would you likeit if someone told you he had something to say to you. You tell him that this is not a good time for something big, and he says. "OK. See you later."?

Wouldn't this sounds like it isn't important them? If Swen did that it would sound like what he wants to tell her is not much important to him making the love confession sounds even cheaper.

[Shjade]

On the other hand, how would you likeit if someone told you he had something to say to you. You tell him that this is not a good time for something big, and he says. "OK. See you later."?

Wouldn't this sounds like it isn't important them? If Swen did that it would sound like what he wants to tell her is not much important to him making the love confession sounds even cheaper.

Important != urgent. A topic can be very important, but if it's not time-sensitive you don't necessarily have to talk about it as soon as possible. In fact, if it's really that important a subject to discuss, you really should wait for a time to talk about it when everyone involved will be able to think clearly and absorb what you're saying.

Being in a rush to talk about it suggests it isn't really that important in and of itself, that what you really value is telling someone about it, which isn't the same thing. It makes it less about the topic and more about you.


Regarding Sven and "nice guys:" given Sven's stated philosophy toward relationships and how he interacts with women, I don't think he feels deserving of/entitled to anything from Faye. It seems, to me, more likely that he's just not sure of what to do to win her over since his usual bag of tricks, which were pretty much all he knew before and never failed until now, is completely worthless. It seems less, "If I do this she'll have to want me," and more, "What does she want from me?"

Actually I take part of that back, 'cause even that summary seems more cynical than I think he's being right now. He's in a place he's never been his entire life, at least according to Dora's description of him (short version: always been the best and most successful at everything with almost no effort on his part). He doesn't know why things aren't working for him or what he's supposed to do to fix what he did to screw it all up. I wouldn't go so far as to call it being "out of his depth," just that he's at a loss, not only for what he has to do to get what he wants, but even about what he wants (thus "I think I'm in love with you" vs "I'm in love with you").

[Neko_Ali]

Or it would give the power to the other person to decide if they can handle more big news or not. At the very least he could have asked what was wrong, instead of just going ahead with his self-centered revelation.  Because the conversation was all about Sven. Honestly to me it seems he's a victim of popular culture and media. Teenage 'get the girl' movies are set up like that all the time. Two people spend  an  hour plus run time dancing around each other, the guy suddenly realizes 'wait, she's really the one!' one more set of wacky hijinks and a heartfelt confession later, the guy gets the girl just in time for them to head off into the sunset/have one last musical dance number.

Sven needs this I think, to learn and grow. Something to not just fall into his lap without any real effort on his part. Or just not to happen the way he wants at all. Because that's what life is like.

[Tormuse]

I think the thing that gets me the most about this is that Sven's logic isn't even internally consistent.  He obviously thinks that what he has to say is important, as evidenced by the fact that he dragged Faye out of her workplace while she was working to say it and even goes on about how miserable this has made him, but then vehemently denies that it's a big deal.  Is this important to him or not?  Does he even know?

[Tormuse]

Sven needs this I think, to learn and grow. Something to not just fall into his lap without any real effort on his part. Or just not to happen the way he wants at all. Because that's what life is like.

Yes, and I think it goes a little beyond learning that he can't get everything easily.  He's in a situation where he may very well have to learn that some mistakes have permanent consequences.  He screwed up with Faye and now, most likely, there is nothing he can do to fix it so he can get with her again.  I can sympathize with that in that it's a painful lesson to learn,but he's going to have to smarten up a bit more than he's demonstrating in order to learn it.

Edit:  Sorry about the double post; I was sure 6 more people were going to post before I finished typing that. 

[Smallest]

Regarding Sven and "nice guys:" given Sven's stated philosophy toward relationships and how he interacts with women, I don't think he feels deserving of/entitled to anything from Faye. It seems, to me, more likely that he's just not sure of what to do to win her over since his usual bag of tricks, which were pretty much all he knew before and never failed until now, is completely worthless. It seems less, "If I do this she'll have to want me," and more, "What does she want from me?"

Actually I take part of that back, 'cause even that summary seems more cynical than I think he's being right now. He's in a place he's never been his entire life, at least according to Dora's description of him (short version: always been the best and most successful at everything with almost no effort on his part). He doesn't know why things aren't working for him or what he's supposed to do to fix what he did to screw it all up. I wouldn't go so far as to call it being "out of his depth," just that he's at a loss, not only for what he has to do to get what he wants, but even about what he wants (thus "I think I'm in love with you" vs "I'm in love with you").

I agree with this, and I really am thinking/hoping the last panel is him going 'right, I'm not entitled to that,' but on the other hand I definitely think when he first replied, he was getting close.

[Noxx]

At the very least he could have asked what was wrong, instead of just going ahead with his self-centered revelation.

But he can't, because to Sven, this is biggest news the world has ever known. I hate to stretch, but it's sort of typical of an abusive personality. "This is important to me, and I am the most important thing in the world, why are you not giving this proper attention and credit?'.

It's pretty douchey. You can dress it up by saying things like "I just want to be honest about my feelings", but in the real world, telling someone you're not involved with that you love them is placing a ridiculous demand on them. "Oh I don't have any expectations, but I wanted you to know....". Horse Shit. All you're doing is placing someone else in an incredibly uncomfortable position by relieving your own personal conflict at their expense.

"Well, I feel better now that I told her". Yeah I bet you do, I bet you don't wonder if she feels better. Dick.

[Somnus Eternus]

Please don't use the word retard to mean someone who's just being an idiot - it has a medical meaning which isn't relevant here.

It's a quote from Tropic Thunder. 

[TRVA123]

still not okay to use.

-------------------------------------

because to Sven, this is biggest news the world has ever known. I hate to stretch, but it's sort of typical of an abusive personality. "This is important to me, and I am the most important thing in the world, why are you not giving this proper attention and credit?'.

I don't think Sven is abusive. Selfish, maybe. But there is a big difference between someone who is abusive and someone who is selfish.

[Jazzmaster]

I agree with this, and I really am thinking/hoping the last panel is him going 'right, I'm not entitled to that,' but on the other hand I definitely think when he first replied, he was getting close.

When he emphasized his honesty, I don't think he meant "I told you the truth, now show me your vagina!".  Rather, I believe he meant "no, I'm not just jerking you around and playing mind games so you'll sleep with me, I actually am in love with you".

[Smallest]

still not okay to use.

-------------------------------------

because to Sven, this is biggest news the world has ever known. I hate to stretch, but it's sort of typical of an abusive personality. "This is important to me, and I am the most important thing in the world, why are you not giving this proper attention and credit?'.

I don't think Sven is abusive. Selfish, maybe. But there is a big difference between someone who is abusive and someone who is selfish.

Agreed. I don't think we've really seen evidence to Sven even being all that self-obsessed. I mean, he gets stuff easily, but that's not self-importance. He has been fairly considerate of Dora's feelings (other than initially sleeping with Faye, but that was a) irrational of Dora and b) just as much on Faye), took Hanners out, talked to Marten about Dora, etc. I also don't think there's really evidence of him thinking this is more important than everything- in his own words, it's not a big deal.

I agree with this, and I really am thinking/hoping the last panel is him going 'right, I'm not entitled to that,' but on the other hand I definitely think when he first replied, he was getting close.

When he emphasized his honesty, I don't think he meant "I told you the truth, now show me your vagina!".  Rather, I believe he meant "no, I'm not just jerking you around and playing mind games so you'll sleep with me, I actually am in love with you".

While I wouldn't take his wording that far, I really didn't mean I think he genuinely believed he was entitled. More he spoke in a way that put him in nice guy territory for a second, probably without thinking, and even if it was thinking, he had an 'oh, shit' moment after realizing. That's part of why I wouldn't take it that far; because I don't think he thought it through.

Of course, it is pretty culturally ingrained (movies!) that even if we ignore the nice guy thing, telling the truth = you HAVE to listen to me; it's okay to chase people down, grab their arm, and hold them still while you spit out the truth. Sven isn't going to do that (I hope), but I could see that being part of his 'hey, you can't tell me to fuck off...' moment

[Loki]

ITT: movies suck.

[Barmymoo]

The thing about social behaviour being learned and culturally defined is that it means that people who are at base decent, kind, caring human beings are still going to mess up at times because they haven't learnt the appropriate or inappropriate approaches to specific situations. I do this all the time, and never maliciously - I say something and later on someone says "hey, did you realise that when you said

• , you made the other person feel [y] because of [this background context I hadn't thought of]?". So saying that Sven was wandering into niceguy territory or acting entitled doesn't mean that his entire personality is built around those characteristics, just that he has inadvertently done something that isn't appropriate because he has never had to figure this out before and no one has told him "don't do this because it carries this implication that you don't want".

[hedgie]

I don't think that Sven thinks that he's "entitled" to Faye, but he still *is* rather self-obsessed.  As has been pointed out elsethread, he's never had to work for anything, so relationships are rather alien for him.  Since he's the sort of person who ignores potential partners just 'cos he wants to read "History of the Crusades" and have a quiet drink is a decent demonstration that he isn't stupid.  He's just a bit slow when it comes to dealing with a lot of emotional shit.  He could probably make it as an *actual* musician rather than writing a bunch of shitty pop-country songs just 'cos it's easy, not to mention other things that he *could* do.  The boy is just out of his depth when it comes with dealing with difficulty.  And the change in his facial expressions in the last panels of the last comic kinda demonstrate that, as well as some ability to recognise it.

[Barmymoo]

I don't think he thinks he's entitled to Faye, but he is nonetheless acting as though he is.

[ZoeB]

This is as painful to watch as a sexually repressed fundie girl lusting after her gay boyfriend.

She's not sexually repressed, merely naive. If she were truly sexually repressed, then she'd be incapable of experiencing the concept of "lusting". Those feelings are there, they haven't been cauterised out.

But now we're crossing over, and unless Amazi-girl starts delivering pizza in QC, I think that's gone far enough.

[Method of Madness]

We don't know that she doesn't

[Barmymoo]

Perhaps I don't understand the term repressed, but I always thought it meant that the feelings were squashed down but present. I see a distinction between sexually repressed and asexual.

[Method of Madness]

Well that's the thing, if she's actively lusting, can she said to be repressing?

[bhtooefr]

Is she actively lusting, though, or lusting against her own will?

[cesariojpn]

Is she actively lusting, though, or lusting against her own will?

Maybe her whole life is being retarded?

[TRVA123]

OOh, you sure showed up those of us who object to using the word "retarded".

Man, my eyes are open now, who knew that it also meant slow or to slow down? damn, now I am so enlightened, I can just completely forget the TONS of other cultural baggage that come with using retarded. Hell, I'm going to use it all the time now, even when there are other EQUALLY SUITABLE words that don't carry that amount of offensiveness and baggage.

Seriously, why not just respect the people who ask for that word not to be used?

[Smallest]

Is she actively lusting, though, or lusting against her own will?

Wait, are we still talking about the simile? I thought Sven was the fundie and Faye was the gay boyfriend in this comparison?

[Loki]

I wasn't going for a person-to-person-comparison - merely saying that the ... cringeworthiness of watching the two situations unfold was comparable.

As for actively lusting or not: Judge for yourself.

[cesariojpn]

Seriously, why not just respect the people who ask for that word not to be used?

Lemme guess....you also object to the use of the word "Fag" in relation to colloquialism cigarette slang and "Gay" when it means happiness.

Dude, you want people to stop using certain words in a negative light? HOWABOUT PROMOTE IT'S RIGHT USE LIKE I DID ABOVE?

[pwhodges]

There is no "right use" except in the deluded minds of nineteenth-century grammarians and their spiritual successors.  Usage is king, and if a usage is, for whatever reason, coming to be seen as offensive, then it is up to us to be sufficiently sensitive to this to recognise it and behave accordingly.

[Loki]

I also wish to stress that I believe we had the discussion on usage of offensive words at least three times in the Discuss subforum and would ask to continue it there, if there's desire.

[Roxtar]

one thing I've noticed about this forum is that it seems to have more than its fair share of "social justice warriors" (tm)
I suppose I'll similarly be lambasted if I tell the bulk of you to un-bunch your collective panties, grow some thicker skin, and realize that just because you're offended, doesn't mean your opinion has any more validity than the opinion of the person who offended you.

your baggage is precisely that... your baggage. Time to unpack it already.

Everything offends someone. If you're too weak minded to separate the intent of the speaker/poster from your "triggers" about certain words or topics, then good luck functioning in the real world.

trigger warning: misogyny (not really).

man the fuck up.

(moderator speaking: explanatory PM has been sent)

[Schmorgluck]

Those preventions exist for very real reasons. Words have meanings, and words have effects. We are in many respects made of words. Sure, you may make the choice that yours will be hateful. But you may wish to consider what it tells about you.

[Carl-E]

Everything offends someone.

Some things more than others.  We try to keep a nice establishment here, welcoming to all.  Making an honest attempt to not be offensive is part and parcel of the deal.  After all, we're guests in this house.  You can make a point without being offensive, and if you can't, maybe your point needs some re-evaluation. 

If you're too weak minded to separate the intent of the speaker/poster from your "triggers" about certain words or topics, then good luck functioning in the real world.

This is a real as the real world.  The people here are not bots.  Try functioning here.  Oh, and read the "read me" threads, please. 

man the fuck up.

We have, over many years.  Now it's your turn. 

Welcome to our forums - you'll like it here once you settle in! 

[T]

Personally I would like to turn the words fag and faggot as a colloquial terms for people in general. 

[Is it cold in here?]

un-bunch your collective panties, grow some thicker skin

This forum is moderated to enforce courtesy. This is not going to change.

[KOK]

If you doubt that anything can offend someone:

http://notalwaysright.com/so-slow-it-hertz-part-2/30892

And no, I do not think that that is an excuse to use words like "retard".

[Barmymoo]

That has a distinctive ring of "fake" to me.