Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

More Dickacorn

5 (8.6%)

What happened that put Faye in a good mood?

4 (6.9%)

Time-skip?

5 (8.6%)

An evening with Faye, Claire, Hanners and Marten

27 (46.6%)

Emily and Clinnntonnn

8 (13.8%)

Who DID throw that condom wrapper on May's face? (aka 'Other')

9 (15.5%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Voting closed: 01 Apr 2015, 05:42

[valkygrrl]

(That's not me lining up for a hug or anything, I just wanted to chime in to agree.)

Y-you don't want to hug me?

Do you wanna build a snowman?

[Omega Entity]

Honestly, I don't even see ǝʎɐℲ's posture as a threat of violence, explicit or otherwise. Yes, she got in ǝɹıɐןƆ's face a bit, and clearly laid out that what she was doing wasn't okay. Panel 3, though, simply reads as and angry glare with the lean in still there. Does it seem threatening? Maybe to some people. But to me, it just looks like a very exaggerated and expressive glare, reinforcing the law being laid down.

[Reaver]

Ahh the new comic reminds me as to why I don't like Faye very much "I can talk shit, but you can't talk shit TO ME"  blegh

[Is it cold in here?]

Fayе had better decide quickly whether she's evil. Martеn may take sides against her if she is openly dangerous to Clairе.

[hedgie]

(That's not me lining up for a hug or anything, I just wanted to chime in to agree.)

Y-you don't want to hug me?

Do you wanna build a snowman?

I can't speak for, presumably him, Hugging Hedgie Heralds Heavy Hyperventilating.  It's a simple mnemonic!  Use it!  Building snow sculptures would be nice, though.

[Gladstone]

Y-you don't want to hug me?

Do you wanna build a snowman?

Don't you wanna hug me, Gladstone?
[Parody lyrics to be added]

No, I just didn't want to seem like I was agreeing just for hugs.  But I'll accept anyway.

(And I can't think of lyrics to the above parody right now because I have the line "Do you wanna ride a sandworm?" stuck in my head.  I should probably read Dune before continuing, so I actually know what I'm talking about...)

[CaptainFish]

I definitely got the threat of physical confrontation read of the situation as well. It's pretty messed up. I'm usually fine with Faye, but this seemed incredibly shitty on several levels. Faye is simultaneously:

• being a HUGE hypocrit
• escalating a small disagreement to antagonism
• weirdly defining Claire's acceptance as linked to Marten
• using overly threatening body language towards Claire and
• underlining the threat by reminding Claire how much smaller she is than her couched in a joke.

The idea that someone would get mad about 'sass' is so preposterous to me, even without considering how much it is a bullshit complaint coming out of Faye. Wouldn't be surprised if Marten follows up and this turns into a serious confrontation.

[qc001]

It's so interesting to read everyone's varying thoughts on the forum!

Unlike many speaking up so far, I read today's as a corollary to the last two Martapartment strips, where (sorry, names split to stop the flipping AUGH SO HARD TO READ THE FLIPPED NAMES ARGHLFARGL) C'laire leans aggressively into F'aye's personal space (admittedly, much more so in the "Was it my suggestion? Did I inspire you?" strip than in the dick jokes strip).

As far as I know, F'aye isn't aware that C'laire might have more cause than most to be easily intimidated by (intentionally or unintentionally) implied threats. In the QC circle of friends, the standard frame is nerdy, acerbic, and sarcastic (with H'anners being the exception, though she can dish out the snark when needed), so sass is met with sass back.

I suppose that neither is reading the other well, as they are not good friends (yet...I can hope that everyone gets along eventually).  F'aye isn't recognizing that, despite C'laire's initial sass-tastic manner, she is being cowed by F'aye's ... uh, pugnaciousness.  However, C'laire also didn't recognize that her "jokes" were not being met with amusement, but rather growing impatience.

Up next: Conflicts get resolved in The Flaire Adventures, whereupon C'laire teaches F'aye the art of Puncrafting, and F'aye shares the secrets of mastering the Malaysian Battle Spatula! Stay tuned!

[Gladstone]

(sorry, names split to stop the flipping AUGH SO HARD TO READ THE FLIPPED NAMES ARGHLFARGL) C'laire leans aggressively into F'aye's personal space

You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

[valkygrrl]

, F'aye isn't aware that C'laire might have more cause than most to be easily intimidated by (intentionally or unintentionally) implied threats.

She doesn't need to. Faye is aware of both Claire's size and the prevalence of violence against women. That should be sufficient.

They both live in a world run by people who are aggressive and larger than they are and that places less value of them than is does men.

[tywren]

"Hey, you sass that hoopy Ḧ̵͚̳́̚͝a̷͎̯̻̱͖͂̂̑̌̌͌n̸̙̰̤̖̝̓̚ͅñ̵̩̬̱͒̌ẹ̷͙͓̲̏̈̏͗ͅl̵̨̯̱̯̝̳̀o̴̦̪̙̹͆̌͒̏̓͒̉ͅr̴̡͓͇̪̮̞̊̌̇͂̎e̸̛̞̥͙̠̳̫͛͜ ƐӀӀìçօէէ-↻հąէհąʍ? There's a frood who really knows where her crowbar is."

For some reason, this reminds me of when Alternative Press typeset an entire interview with Bryan Ferry in Wingdings and assorted runes.

Of course, by this time tomorrow that reference will probably make no sense.

<insert strip #2929 with Zalgo makeover>

He comes.

I definitely got the threat of physical confrontation read of the situation as well. It's pretty messed up. I'm usually fine with Faye, but this seemed incredibly shitty on several levels. Faye is simultaneously:
<snip>
The idea that someone would get mad about 'sass' is so preposterous to me, even without considering how much it is a bullshit complaint coming out of Faye. Wouldn't be surprised if Marten follows up and this turns into a serious confrontation.

Or, taken from another point of view, someone finally called Claire on her her hyper obnoxious shit. Marten, looking through the rose colored glasses of a new relationship thinks it cute (as has been proven by the last two "I Know" strips); her brother has been browbeaten with it for so long, that he only responds with feeble, whiny denials, or long suffering sighs; and Pintsize, who could have embarrassed enough to take her down a notch or two, has been LOOOOOOMMM'ed out of the picture. That left only Faye to convey to Claire, that she was being annoying, obnoxious, and rude; which she did in her very most blunt, and up front manner.

Huzza i say.

[qc001]

You have not experienced Questionable Content until you have read it in the original Klingon.

Forevermore I shall mentally pronounce all the QC characters names with a Klingon inflection, and imagine that they all have bat'leths.  THANK YOU, GOOD SIR 

She doesn't need to. Faye is aware of both Claire's size and the prevalence of violence against women. That should be sufficient.

They both live in a world run by people who are aggressive and larger than they are and that places less value of them than is does men.

Do they?  I'm sorry if I sound flip - I'm being serious, here.  Of course what you say is VERY true in the real world, but in QC-land, as far as I can recall, other than a series of strips wherein Penny waxes angrily about the classification of "crazy ex-girlfriends," I don't remember much in the way of misogynistic acts or thoughts being much described. What violence we have seen is typically played for laughs or as the (sorry for the pun) punchline of a specific comic, and has been primarily perpetrated by women, frequently against men. By this token, why wasn't there outrage about Marten looming scarily over Pintsize (to prevent him making a ribald comment to Claire), when Pintsize is a member of a group that has been both self- and author-described as both historically and currently oppressed?

I suppose I am trying to assess everyone's behavior without labeling any one in particular as wholly "good" or "bad," here.  I agree that the escalation by Faye was not appropriate, but I was also irked by Claire's actions in the prior two strips.  We don't know Faye's motivation (is she just snapping back because she's had a long day and it is easier to be sharp-tongued than to nicely ask Claire to tone it down a bit? Is she "feeling out" Claire to see if she is as spunky as Marten's previous love interests, and did she expect Claire to fight back?  Is she just turning into an evil person?  What is Jeph's long-term plan for Faye's character?), and we just have the day's snapshot.  Jeph ended today's strip with snarky jokes from both Marten and Claire; if Faye is meant to be the unambiguous "bad guy" here, why didn't Marten ask her to cool it or speak up for Claire?

If nothing else, I think I've used up my question mark quota for this post!

[MrNumbers]

I think the worst part about this is that she's saying; "I put up with you because of Marten, but we are not friends."

For sass. What sass? Claire in turn was obnoxious, true, about wanting to be helpful and about Faye sculpting something from the dick up.

One of those things was being smug about actively trying to help Faye in a manner that did end up being incredibly beneficial to her. Which wasn't even intentionally obnoxious and, as a lot of us here in the peanut gallery agreed, was totally adorkable.

The next, and I can't stress this enough, insulted neither Faye nor her abilities. And it was a genuinely odd thing for Faye to do. She made a steel dick for an art installation and nothing else for it. Then superglued it to her roommate's pet's head. This is certainly something you should be able to laugh at or tease without it reflecting negatively on the person you're teasing.

So for Faye to react violently - and it is violently - to someone who was just moments before excited to be helpful to her and does not have a malicious bone in her body...

Faye, meanwhile, has called Claire a smartarse and a dork in this time, with Claire and Marten both copping that one on the chin with bright, proud smiles.

So yeah. I'm actually kind of mad. She's just done this to the guy who would otherwise be paying her half of the rent at the moment and, just this week, is the one responsible for getting her to the hospital and who she suckerpunched in her drunken stupour.

God damn it, Faye.

[BenRG]

Remember that this isn't happening in a vacuum. Remember the beer can incident? Claire has been outright rude to Faye before. So there is a very slight history of antagonism between the two women. Faye strikes me as the sort of person who may act as if something is resolved but later remember and act out if provoked.

Remember also that this is still Faye's apartment. Marten may have invited Claire over but Faye would be within her rights to ask him not to do so again if Claire were being rude to her or disrupting the apartment. That said, Faye's reaction is excessive in this case.

I still can't work out why she has sculpted a phallus without having the rest of the installation to which she can attach it! She could have totally disarmed Claire if she'd had a sensible explanation. The fact that she didn't have one but instead dodged the question implies some embarrassing tale that is an open goal to someone like Claire. That said, Claire should know that Faye is prickly and fragile in emotional terms; especially given Faye's current situation, she should have known that teasing her would provoke her to aggression. Jeph was right, though: in the end, she just couldn't help herself!

In some ways, Faye was right. In purely orthodox anthropological terms, I suppose that it is possible that Claire, sensing Faye's weakness, was instinctively driven to try to supplant Faye as the 'alpha' in that little circle and Faye responded appropriately. Not knowing much about that field, I couldn't say how likely that scenario might be.

TL;DR -Faye overreacted but Claire should have known not to keep pushing based on Faye's current situation.

In any case, I think that, tomorrow, Marten will sternly dress down both ladies and tell them to be nice to each other. It could even lead to his first argument with Claire. It is strange if you recall that one of the issues that drove away Dora was her fear that, for Marten, Faye would always come first. In any case, I can't see Claire and Faye having anything but an armed truce for the immediate future.

[anahata]

All I can say in Faye's defence is that
- She's behaved pretty well recently (in terms of aggression to others) until now
- The stress of not drinking may be beginning to show
- Claire asked for it: knows from experience what happens if you get snarky with Faye, and
- At least she didn't actually hit Claire. She's hit Marten many times.

But instead of judging either Claire or Faye, I'm surprised there hasn't been much speculation about where Jeph is going with this.
Is Faye going to have some epiphany of remorse at the support group? Will her behaviour stretch Marten's patience to the limit? Is this going to cause the first storm in MartenClaire's super-cute-and-perfect relationship?
There must be a reason for this plot development, beyond some jokey parody of Attenborough's nature programmes.

[hakko504]

First, am I the only one that felt like this strip was a callback to how lots of strips used to look in the early days of QC. A lot of text (well, not that much), where the main line of thought ends in the penultimate speech box, and then a final offhand comment by a character looking away from the others. Compare 180 (followed by another 5 or 6 examples in the next 10 strips), 253-255.
Not complaning, it was just a bit unexpected, as Jeph hasn't really used that particular technique very often lately. I can find a few more examples in the last 100 strips, but noone quite as obvious as today's. Seems like the 2x2 layout of the strip doesn't quite lend itself very well to this particular technique, and lo and behold, today's strip is mostly top down.


Offtopic:

Omnibus editions of various Discworld books would be nice, since I only own about half of them, and would love to read the rest.  Discworld is one of the few series where I think that the work actually got better the longer that it went on.

Actually, omnibus editions do exist, at least of the first 20 or so books. I checked my bookshelf, and I seems to have at least 6 of them. 2 covering the first 5 Rincewind books(CoM/TLF,S/FE/IT), 1 witches trilogy(ER/WS/WA), 1 City watch trilogy(G!G!/MAA/FoC), 1 Death trilogy (M/RM/SM), 1 Gods trilogy (SG/P/Hf). However, I bought these more than 10 years ago when my paperback editions of said books started to fall to pieces after too many readthroughs, and they are out of print by now. Most of them seems to be available at amazon.co.uk though. The dates listed there also seems consistent with when I recall purchasing them, 1999-2002.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Nah, I'm good.

[tywren]

adorkable.

A synonym for squee, which is something, others are frankly sick of.

So for Faye to react violently - and it is violently - to someone who was just moments before excited to be helpful to her and does not have a malicious bone in her body...

I wonder how her brother would view that statement? It seems to me that, intentional or not, many of the embarrassing, or denigrating jokes, and stories she tells at his expense carry a fair bit of malice.

Faye, meanwhile, has called Claire a smartarse and a dork in this time, with Claire and Marten both copping that one on the chin with bright, proud smiles.

And therein lies the problem, when she said those things to Marten, she was trying to draw his attention to the fact that his girlfriend was tap dancing all over her last nerve. To which he replied with an "I Know, Isn't It Great" attitude. After trying twice and failing, Faye took maters into her own hands, and i really can't fault her for it, because the person who should have been telling Clare to tone it down, was instead passively encouraging her to take it up to eleven.

[Truec]

I can only assume that Faye's current attitude is due to stress.  Normally she's all for sass and wit, even at her expense.

Hmm, no link? Thought we had a link. No? Ok.

[Thrillho]

Seems like a few people here haven't been around addicts, particularly addicts attempting to quit their drug of choice, too much.

Citing the behaviour of this comic as the same as the earlier, for lack of a better term less enlightened comics in terms of violent or threatening behaviour is unfair.

Faye is being an asshole in this particular strip, yes, but she's also been sober for the longest time she's been sober in a while. The times I've tried to quit smoking cold turkey, I'd have kicked my mother down the stairs for a drag, especially the first few days.

[BenRG]

Okay, so this is how I see things going down. I'm probably wrong but I like this sceniario:

FRIDAY (six-panel frame)
PANEL 1: MARTEN is sitting between CLAIRE and FAYE; a barricade by choice or necessity? Who knows?
CLAIRE: "You know, you'd think that an artist would have a nice, intellectual explanation for her art!"
FAYE: "You know, you'd think that a good girlfriend would know how to treat her boyfriend's best friend!"
PANEL 2: MARTEN is now clearly trapped; FAYE and CLAIRE are leaning towards each other and getting red in the face.
CLAIRE: "For someone who's made such a screw-up of her life, you're full of advice for other people!"
FAYE: "For someone who's apparently been a wallflower up to now, you seem to know a lot about how to act!"
PANEL 4: Close up on MARTEN's face
FAYE (off-panel): "Maybe my roommate's new pet should learn respect!"
CLAIRE (off-panel): "Maybe my boyfriend's charity case should learn gratitude!"
PANEL 5: Same close up but MARTEN'S irises have gone red!
MARTEN: "That's..."
PANEL 6: MARTEN is throwing his hands up in the air. FAYE and CLAIRE are both reeling back, their hair is fear/shock spiky
MARTEN: "ENOUGH!"

MONDAY (four-panel frame)
PANEL 1 (half-height): Marten, glaring and pointing
MARTEN: "Okay, I'd hoped that I could avoid this forever but here goes!"
PANEL 2 (full height): CLAIRE, looking down in shame.
MARTEN (off panel): "Claire, I love you; you're beautiful, funny and intelligent but you've got to stop being so cruel to people!"
CLAIRE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "Putting people down like that isn't cool and it isn't funny! It's unattractive Claire! It makes you look ugly and small!"
PANEL 3 (full height): FAYE, looking down in shame
MARTEN (off panel): "Faye, I love you like the sister I've never had but you can be the meanest person I've ever known!"
FAYE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "I know you've had a hard life but you've got to stop treating it as a license to be a complete and utter shit to everyone you ever meet!"
PANEL 4 (half height): MARTEN is walking away from the couch as CLAIRE and FAYE look at him in shock.
MARTEN: "I'm not telling you to hug and make friends; you're both adults and you can run your own lives."
MARTEN (second balloon): "I'm just telling you to GROW UP!"
PANEL 5 (half height): FAYE and CLAIRE looking off-panel to the right
MARTEN (off panel): "I'm going to walk this off!"
SFX: DOOR SLAM
PANEL 6: FAYE and CLAIRE looking at each other fearfully
CLAIRE: "Wow! Talk about screwing up the best thing in your life in one evening!"
FAYE: "Tell me about it, sister!"

The next two strips on Tuesday and Wednesday would be a filler BUT would both have the last panel being Marten walking around or maybe leaning on a wall and rubbing the bridge of his nose somewhere in Northampton.

THURSDAY (six-panel frame)
PANEL 1: MARTEN unlocking the apartment's front door
PANEL 2: Close-up on MARTEN's face; he's wide-eyed
PANEL 3: MARTEN's POV - FAYE and CLAIRE are both standing in the middle room, looking embarrassed. Their eyes are suspiciously shiny
PANEL 4: FAYE and CLAIRE are both glomping Marten from different sides
FAYE: "MartyI'msorryI'msuchafuckupandabitchandI'msorryanddon'thatemeIpromiseI'lldobetterIswear...!"
CLAIRE: "MartenI'msorryIactlikealittlechildandI'mscaredofpeopleandpleasedon'tdumpmeIpromiseI'llstopandbenicerIpromise..."
PANEL 5: MARTEN is smiling reassuringly and trying to hug both teaful ladies at once
MARTEN: "Wow! Hey! Don't cry! It's gonna be okay! You'll see!"
PINTSIZE (Off-panel): "Wow! Is this a prelude to a make-up sex threesome? Where's my camera?"
PANEL 6: MARTEN, FAYE and CLAIRE all all glaring at PINTSIZE, who is standing on the arm of the couch.
PINTSIZE: "So... I'm thinking that the answer is 'No'. I'm going to lock myself in my cupboard now."

[EDIT]
Yeah... so I admit that there is a lot of my thoughts in Marten's rant

[KOK]

Who does the title text of 2930 refer to?

[BenRG]

Who does the title text of 2930 refer to?

I think that Jeph left that deliberately ambiguous but I suspect it's a reference Claire's need to tease.

[Satan]

Okay, so this is how I see things going down. I'm probably wrong but I like this sceniario:

FRIDAY (six-panel frame)
PANEL 1: MARTEN is sitting between CLAIRE and FAYE; a barricade by choice or necessity? Who knows?
CLAIRE: "You know, you'd think that an artist would have a nice, intellectual explanation for her art!"
FAYE: "You know, you'd think that a good girlfriend would know how to treat her boyfriend's best friend!"
PANEL 2: MARTEN is now clearly trapped; FAYE and CLAIRE are leaning towards each other and getting red in the face.
CLAIRE: "For someone who's made such a screw-up of her life, you're full of advice for other people!"
FAYE: "For someone who's apparently been a wallflower up to now, you seem to know a lot about how to act!"
PANEL 4: Close up on MARTEN's face
FAYE (off-panel): "Maybe my roommate's new pet should learn respect!"
CLAIRE (off-panel): "Maybe my boyfriend's charity case should learn gratitude!"
PANEL 5: Same close up but MARTEN'S irises have gone red!
MARTEN: "That's..."
PANEL 6: MARTEN is throwing his hands up in the air. FAYE and CLAIRE are both reeling back, their hair is fear/shock spiky
MARTEN: "ENOUGH!"

MONDAY (four-panel frame)
PANEL 1 (half-height): Marten, glaring and pointing
MARTEN: "Okay, I'd hoped that I could avoid this forever but here goes!"
PANEL 2 (full height): CLAIRE, looking down in shame.
MARTEN (off panel): "Claire, I love you; you're beautiful, funny and intelligent but you've got to stop being so cruel to people!"
CLAIRE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "Putting people down like that isn't cool and it isn't funny! It's unattractive Claire! It makes you look ugly and small!"
PANEL 3 (full height): FAYE, looking down in shame
MARTEN (off panel): "Faye, I love you like the sister I've never had but you can be the meanest person I've ever known!"
FAYE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "I know you've had a hard life but you've got to stop treating it as a license to be a complete and utter shit to everyone you ever meet!"
PANEL 4 (half height): MARTEN is walking away from the couch as CLAIRE and FAYE look at him in shock.
MARTEN: "I'm not telling you to hug and make friends; you're both adults and you can run your own lives."
MARTEN (second balloon): "I'm just telling you to GROW UP!"
PANEL 5 (half height): FAYE and CLAIRE looking off-panel to the right
MARTEN (off panel): "I'm going to walk this off!"
SFX: DOOR SLAM
PANEL 6: FAYE and CLAIRE looking at each other fearfully
CLAIRE: "Wow! Talk about screwing up the best thing in your life in one evening!"
FAYE: "Tell me about it, sister!"

The next two strips on Tuesday and Wednesday would be a filler BUT would both have the last panel being Marten walking around or maybe leaning on a wall and rubbing the bridge of his nose somewhere in Northampton.

THURSDAY (six-panel frame)
PANEL 1: MARTEN unlocking the apartment's front door
PANEL 2: Close-up on MARTEN's face; he's wide-eyed
PANEL 3: MARTEN's POV - FAYE and CLAIRE are both standing in the middle room, looking embarrassed. Their eyes are suspiciously shiny
PANEL 4: FAYE and CLAIRE are both glomping Marten from different sides
FAYE: "MartyI'msorryI'msuchafuckupandabitchandI'msorryanddon'thatemeIpromiseI'lldobetterIswear...!"
CLAIRE: "MartenI'msorryIactlikealittlechildandI'mscaredofpeopleandpleasedon'tdumpmeIpromiseI'llstopandbenicerIpromise..."
PANEL 5: MARTEN is smiling reassuringly and trying to hug both teaful ladies at once
MARTEN: "Wow! Hey! Don't cry! It's gonna be okay! You'll see!"
PINTSIZE (Off-panel): "Wow! Is this a prelude to a make-up sex threesome? Where's my camera?"
PANEL 6: MARTEN, FAYE and CLAIRE all all glaring at PINTSIZE, who is standing on the arm of the couch.
PINTSIZE: "So... I'm thinking that the answer is 'No'. I'm going to lock myself in my cupboard now."

[EDIT]
Yeah... so I admit that there is a lot of my thoughts in Marten's rant

You're missing the bit where Marten dislocates his jaw and swallows them both whole, boa constrictor style.

[Neko_Ali]

The trouble is that Faye is regularly an asshole to everyone. This isn't the first time she's physically intimidated Claire for trying to interact with Faye the way she sees Faye interacting with other people all the time. Faye is like the poster child of 'can dish it out but can't take it' at times like this. The beer can incident can be set aside somewhat as Claire was clearly being unwarrantedly bitchy with her comment and it was taken mostly jokingly by everyone except Claire. In this case though she was clearly being aggressive and even threatening with the "I only put up with you, we are NOT friends and you do NOT have the right to do to me what I do to you and everyone else."

It can be said quite reasonably that Fay is just extra prickly right now because she's going cold turkey and stressed out. Which is true.. But it's also true that Fay is pretty much always like this. She cows and intimidates everyone around her. She sets up a pecking order by means of verbal barbs, threats and outright physical violence. Really the only ones who stand up and don't back down to her are Dora and  Hanners. Everyone else in her circle, which is unsurprisingly small, is various degrees of 'resignedly putting up with it from a co-worker' to 'whipping boy'.

[SeaWoodStage]

See, this is my problem with Faye. She’s never been my favourite character, and she’s never been a character I particularly like, but she’s always been a character I really want to like. I’d started to like her more, partly because what she’s been through recently evokes my sympathy (and I tend to like people whom I sympathise with), and partly because of the way she seems to have been handling it so far. Then she goes and does something like this.

I know, I shouldn’t be so invested in a fictional character in a webcomic, but I can’t help but feel disappointed when she reverts back to the behaviour that makes it so hard for me to like her in the first place (aggressive, overly sassy, bordering on bullying).

My hope is that maybe her aggressive stance towards Claire right now is her (Faye) sort of testing her own waters, in the sense of using a behaviour she’s very used to using, in a time of very high stress? Faye’s acceptance of the reality of her situation in the immediate aftermath of being hospitalised, along with her open and polite response to the support group, seemed slightly out of character to me, in the “too good to be true” sense. It must have taken either a genuine epiphany, or a lot of effort, for her to react in those ways, and I wonder if she’s feeling almost like she’s not herself anymore. Trying to lay the smack-down on Claire might be a way of sort of feeling inside herself to see if there’s something of the old Faye that she can grasp on to. Whether that’s to comfort herself with old behaviours, or to help convince herself that pre-hospitalisation Faye hasn’t disappeared, I have no idea. I just hope that she’s not going to revert back entirely to the prickly, snarky, frankly sometimes unpleasant person that she often used to be.

Ugh, I’m really not expressing myself very well in this post, but does anyone know what I’m getting at here?

ETA: Regardless of Faye’s motives, I don’t believe Claire deserves this harsh reaction. Claire may be feeling happy and comfortable in Marten’s affection, but that doesn’t mean she isn’t feeling awkward and insecure in Marten’s circle. How many of us, in similar circumstances where we want to be accepted, have taken an inexperienced step too far during an initial rush of confidence and immediately regretted whatever came out of our mouths? I know I have, many times.

[swapna]

The trouble is that Faye is regularly an asshole to everyone. This isn't the first time she's physically intimidated Claire for trying to interact with Faye the way she sees Faye interacting with other people all the time. Faye is like the poster child of 'can dish it out but can't take it' at times like this. The beer can incident can be set aside somewhat as Claire was clearly being unwarrantedly bitchy with her comment and it was taken mostly jokingly by everyone except Claire. In this case though she was clearly being aggressive and even threatening with the "I only put up with you, we are NOT friends and you do NOT have the right to do to me what I do to you and everyone else."

Yeah, Faye's not nice. But actually, she's been pretty patient and trying to be nice to people since she's been sober - she took Hanner's suggestion that she should suck it up, she thanked Marten, she apologised to Claire and Pintsize and she was civil with Dora. Doesn't mean she's a saint, now, but I think she tries to do what's right. Claire doesn't - she pestered the clearly annoyed Faye and didn't stop  (that's pretty much what she does - remember how she treats Clinton?)

And, while I think the 'asserting dominance over the smaller, weaker female'-Comment took it way too far, it's fair to tell somebody that they're not your friend and they went overboard. Especially when they aren't - their first interaction mostly Claire telling Faye that she's stupid, and Faye having none of that. They may become friends, but at the moment...

[SeaWoodStage]

(...remember how she treats Clinton?)

That's always bothered me a little bit too. Sure, Clinton has been super inappropriate at times, bordering on creepy, but I think sometimes we're too quick to judge Clinton on behaviour that we might forgive other characters for. Clinton's inappropriateness has always seemed immediate to me, borne out of a general cluelessness, rather than any kind of prolonged, malicious creepiness. And Claire is still in my top three favourite characters, but I sometimes feel that her treatment of Clinton is a little dismissive and harsh, especially when he's not there to defend himself.

Apologies, swapna, if I’m taking your mention of Clinton too much out of context. It’s just something that rankles with me, and you reminded me of it.

[War Sparrow]

See, this is my problem with Faye. She’s never been my favourite character, and she’s never been a character I particularly like, but she’s always been a character I really want to like. I’d started to like her more, partly because what she’s been through recently evokes my sympathy (and I tend to like people whom I sympathise with), and partly because of the way she seems to have been handling it so far. Then she goes and does something like this.

I know, I shouldn’t be so invested in a fictional character in a webcomic, but I can’t help but feel disappointed when she reverts back to the behaviour that makes it so hard for me to like her in the first place (aggressive, overly sassy, bordering on bullying).

My hope is that maybe her aggressive stance towards Claire right now is her (Faye) sort of testing her own waters, in the sense of using a behaviour she’s very used to using, in a time of very high stress? Faye’s acceptance of the reality of her situation in the immediate aftermath of being hospitalised, along with her open and polite response to the support group, seemed slightly out of character to me, in the “too good to be true” sense. It must have taken either a genuine epiphany, or a lot of effort, for her to react in those ways, and I wonder if she’s feeling almost like she’s not herself anymore. Trying to lay the smack-down on Claire might be a way of sort of feeling inside herself to see if there’s something of the old Faye that she can grasp on to. Whether that’s to comfort herself with old behaviours, or to help convince herself that pre-hospitalisation Faye hasn’t disappeared, I have no idea. I just hope that she’s not going revert back entirely to the prickly, snarky, frankly sometimes unpleasant person that she often used to be.

Ugh, I’m really not expressing myself very well in this post, but does anyone know what I’m getting at here?

If I have you right, your saying that Faye, after undergoing a huge shock to her mental and physical being, went a bit out of character, and not in a bad way. But now after she has taken care of those initial steps, she's finally able to realize that she doesn't quite feel herself yet. And she's scared. And scared people often look for stability. Faye has abandonment issues, so her stability is herself-specifically, her aggressiveness. So she is lashing out. And if that it a correct assessment, then I agree.  If I have you all wrong, then let me know.

 To add my own thoughts to that, she probably feels weak and frightened(I may be projecting though.) It takes a great deal to accept you need help, and the aftermath can make you feel vulnerable. Part of her lashing out may just be her way of reassuring herself that she is still "master of her domain", as it were. Or at least, still able to intimidate others, so they won't think her fragile or easy to walk all over.  A person should be able to feel comfortable in their own home, after all, and not be subjected to irritations by others who don't live there.  I mean, I don't get why Claire's ribbing was all that bad-maybe annoying, but just barely. But then, I am not a recovering addict trying to reestablish my place in life. Just being unemployed puts me on edge, nevermind my brain chemicals trying to reset. But then, how was Claire supposed to know? She doesn't know Faye well enough to realize how high strung her nerves are just now. And she isn't nearly so socially competent as to extrapolate it. Didn't she ask Faye if she was stupid at one point? I vaguely remember something like that, but I have bad archive fu. 

I don't really agree with how Faye reacted, but I do understand it, sort of.

Two steps forward, one step back.

[MrNumbers]

(...remember how she treats Clinton?)

Claire is still in my top three favourite characters, but I sometimes feel that her treatment of Clinton is a little dismissive and harsh, especially when he's not there to defend himself.

It's a sibling thing.

Not all siblings, mind. But enough of them.

Gravity Falls does it exceedingly well with Mabel and Dipper. They always get really mad at each other at a drop of a hat, they're brutally nasty to each other just as quick, but then they forgive each other faster still.

I like to imagine Claire and Clinton as Mabel and Dipper but All Growed Up.

Typo intentional Rugrats reference.

[SeaWoodStage]

[First two paragraphs cut for space]

My hope is that maybe her aggressive stance towards Claire right now is her (Faye) sort of testing her own waters, in the sense of using a behaviour she’s very used to using, in a time of very high stress? Faye’s acceptance of the reality of her situation in the immediate aftermath of being hospitalised, along with her open and polite response to the support group, seemed slightly out of character to me, in the “too good to be true” sense. It must have taken either a genuine epiphany, or a lot of effort, for her to react in those ways, and I wonder if she’s feeling almost like she’s not herself anymore. Trying to lay the smack-down on Claire might be a way of sort of feeling inside herself to see if there’s something of the old Faye that she can grasp on to. Whether that’s to comfort herself with old behaviours, or to help convince herself that pre-hospitalisation Faye hasn’t disappeared, I have no idea. I just hope that she’s not going revert back entirely to the prickly, snarky, frankly sometimes unpleasant person that she often used to be.

Ugh, I’m really not expressing myself very well in this post, but does anyone know what I’m getting at here?

If I have you right, your saying that Faye, after undergoing a huge shock to her mental and physical being, went a bit out of character, and not in a bad way. But now after she has taken care of those initial steps, she's finally able to realize that she doesn't quite feel herself yet. And she's scared. And scared people often look for stability. Faye has abandonment issues, so her stability is herself-specifically, her aggressiveness. So she is lashing out. And if that it a correct assessment, then I agree.  If I have you all wrong, then let me know.

 To add my own thoughts to that, she probably feels weak and frightened(I may be projecting though.) It takes a great deal to accept you need help, and the aftermath can make you feel vulnerable. Part of her lashing out may just be her way of reassuring herself that she is still "master of her domain", as it were. Or at least, still able to intimidate others, so they won't think her fragile or easy to walk all over.  A person should be able to feel comfortable in their own home, after all, and not be subjected to irritations by others who don't live there.  I mean, I don't get why Claire's ribbing was all that bad-maybe annoying, but just barely. But then, I am not a recovering addict trying to reestablish my place in life. Just being unemployed puts me on edge, nevermind my brain chemicals trying to reset. But then, how was Claire supposed to know? She doesn't know Faye well enough to realize how high strung her nerves are just now. And she isn't nearly so socially competent as to extrapolate it. Didn't she ask Faye if she was stupid at one point? I vaguely remember something like that, but I have bad archive fu. 

I don't really agree with how Faye reacted, but I do understand it, sort of.

Two steps forward, one step back.

Far from having me all wrong, you’ve said pretty much what I was trying to say, but far more articulately than I was able to Your putting it as “master of her domain” is hitting the nail on the head as far as I’m concerned.

Going further, and as you say, making sure she’s still able to intimidate, and therefore not appear as fragile, is an aspect I hadn’t really thought of. I’d been thinking of it purely as Faye struggling with herself, but you’re right, the way other people see her is also probably massively important to her right now. So thanks, you’ve given me yet another dimension to this!

I’m not a recovering addict either, although I’ve come very close, but I’m with you on the unemployment. It can make me very defensive and insecure, and I dread meeting new people because of the inevitable “what do you do?” questions.

(I put an edit on my original post, I think after you replied to it, about Claire not deserving quite such an extreme reaction. So as far as that goes, I completely agree.)

I’m also with you on the archives: I have a bad sense of time and my archive-fu is rubbish! I think you might be right about that though, I seem to remember Claire once asking Faye “I don’t know, are you a bit stupid?” or something similar.

[Neko_Ali]

And, while I think the 'asserting dominance over the smaller, weaker female'-Comment took it way too far, it's fair to tell somebody that they're not your friend and they went overboard. Especially when they aren't - their first interaction mostly Claire telling Faye that she's stupid, and Faye having none of that. They may become friends, but at the moment...

Which is part of my point. Calling Claire out for pushing to far is all well and fine. And probably needed as Claire does tend to push things to far from time to time. That's not what Faye did though. She went into full aggressive bitch mode, as she tends to do. She literally got into Claire's face to the point where Claire was backing up fearfully. That's not a way to establish a friendship. As far as 'you haven't earned the right to sass me', that's pure hypocrisy. Faye sasses everyone. How has she 'earned the right' to do that?

I’m also with you on the archives: I have a bad sense of time and my archive-fu is rubbish! I think you might be right about that though, I seem to remember Claire once asking Faye “I don’t know, are you a bit stupid?” or something similar.

That is the previously mentioned 'beer can on the head' strip. And Claire did have it coming with that one. Her comment wasn't sass, though maybe she was intending it that way. It was just plain insulting.

Edited for quote mistake derping.

[valkygrrl]

Which is part of my point. Calling Claire out for pushing to far is all well and fine. And probably needed as Claire does tend to push things to far from time to time. That's not what Faye did though. She went into full aggressive bitch mode, as she tends to do. She literally got into Claire's face to the point where Claire was backing up fearfully. That's not a way to establish a friendship. As far as 'you haven't earned the right to sass me', that's pure hypocrisy. Faye sasses everyone. How has she 'earned the right' to do that?

This.

Except for one thing, that not only isn't the way to establish a friendship, it's completely unacceptable behavior period. If it had been Steve telling Claire off along with threatening body language would people be as quick to defend or does the Claire hatedom run that deep?

[hedgie]

I actually think that this strip really shows how obnoxious that Faye can be.  Picking on Claire like that, since she won't or can't fight back is almost like kicking a puppy or kitten (whichever one likes the most).  She's basically an innocent, whether she's being "annoying" or not. 

[CaptainFish]

And therein lies the problem, when she said those things to Marten, she was trying to draw his attention to the fact that his girlfriend was tap dancing all over her last nerve. To which he replied with an "I Know, Isn't It Great" attitude. After trying twice and failing, Faye took maters into her own hands, and i really can't fault her for it, because the person who should have been telling Clare to tone it down, was instead passively encouraging her to take it up to eleven.

Yeah, he really should've controlled his uppity girl. How dare she comment on a metal penis. Girlfriends should be seen and not heard.

I know that's an exaggeration, but if Faye was really trying to say, 'be civil to your girlfriend, bro, because I'm incapable of being civil to her,' then that just makes the situation seem worse to me. I also have a hard time finding fault with most of Claire's words. Based on how Faye reacted to the support group suggestion, it's pretty clear she never would've considered it without Claire's suggestion, so there's nothing wrong with feeling good about giving that suggestion. Claire didn't even refer to Faye changing her mind or anything similar that would've been a take down of Faye's snap judgement. The metal penis was bound to be a point of discussion. I do think the 'all [] projects dick-first' line was a leap and a shitty thing to say. However, I read the no-sass rule as being more about Claire's general demeanour towards Faye, literally 'you don't get to banter with me', rather than a take down of the specific thing Claire said that went too far.

I will agree to the point others have made about this being related to her withdrawl symptoms. It's definitely amplifying her characteristic behaviour rather than creating new behaviour though.

[ASB84]

I think it's an interesting point about Claire being taken down a peg for some of her more obnoxious/misguided traits, and I'd certainly agree that she seemingly bullies Clinton to the point where he becomes a sympathetic character, despite having some rather unsympathetic/off-putting moments. I think it's fair to say there's some fault on both sides here. However, at the end of the day, I'm more inclined to take the side of the person who was being a bit cheeky and obnoxious, over the person who's being downright abrasive and threatening. Faye's going through a rough time and Claire does suffer a bit of foot in mouth disease, but Faye's providing a much bigger "Whoa, not cool!" moment in my view.

As for the previous incident with the beer can...Claire's choice of words was stupidly blunt and a bit callous, but once again, Faye's threat of violence (which Claire specifically mentioned) crossed the line, even though it was played for laughs. It's an issue that Faye clearly still needs to work through.

The question has been raised as to where this is going. I'd be inclined to say it'll be quickly resolved, or it'll be the first hiccup in Marten and Claire's relationship (albeit one that's smoothed over in short order), with him ending up defending Faye. It's been suggested that Marten stands up to Faye, but...well, this is Marten we're talking about here. I'd be very surprised if he suddenly gained that kind of intestinal fortitude; I just have trouble seeing that kind of development take place.

In fact, if I can channel my inner David Letterman for a moment...

Top 10 Things That Will Happen in QC Before Marten Stands Up To Faye

10. Cosette learns how to juggle.
9. Wil writes a poem that isn't hilariously pretentious garbage.
8. Yelling Bird uses no profanity for a whole strip, apologises for previous outbursts.
7. Hanners puts an ad on Craigslist, "Friend With Benefits Wanted!"
6. Raven returns.
5. Dora begs the rest of the cast to tell her how to run her life.
4. Sven and Hannelore...together at last!
3. Week long arc featuring The Bros meeting their British counterparts, The Lads.
2. Jeph cameos in an extended - and dated - parody of the Architect scene from The Matrix Reloaded.

And the number one thing that will happen in QC before Marten stands up to Faye...

1. The Shame Orb becomes canon.

[BenRG]

Except for one thing, that not only isn't the way to establish a friendship, it's completely unacceptable behavior period. If it had been Steve telling Claire off along with threatening body language would people be as quick to defend or does the Claire hatedom run that deep?

I actually haven't seen any significant Claire-hate on this strip either here or on the Subreddit (the latter being a shock as the place is virulently anti-Claire but only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her). I would say that the responses I've seen have been about 7/8 saying Faye was in the wrong or at the very least saying that she is under duress due to her trying to break an addiction and a mistake like this shouldn't be held against her.

[valkygrrl]

(the latter being a shock as the place is virulently anti-Claire but only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her).

I did not! I was the first one to stand up for her.

[cabbagehut]

So for Faye to react violently - and it is violently - to someone who was just moments before excited to be helpful to her and does not have a malicious bone in her body...

"Excited to be helpful" isn't a universally-positive trait, though.  Some people found her reaction insensitive and selfish.  I'm not saying that's the right view, but perhaps Faye viewed it in a similar light.  Faye barely knows Claire, and it doesn't require maliciousness to be insensitive or even cruel to someone.  Having someone casually talk about something that's difficult and life-changing for you can cause a lot of strong emotions.  If Faye handled it differently, like she did the first time she snapped at Claire about these things, I imagine Claire would understand.  While she's fairly innocent, she's a graduate student, not a toddler.

This is a difficult time in Faye's life (and everyone she knows also knows about it, and she might feel worried about being judged), and many people are embarrassed about "needing help".  Faye just says, "For, y'know," about where she's been, so that might suggest that she's not really comfortable mentioning this stuff yet.  I'm not as literally violent as Faye, but I've got some temper issues (that I am definitely working on!), and I know that when I'm feeling vulnerable and embarrassed, I have a tendency to lash out at people, too.  The people who are saying that it's unacceptable behavior are totally right in saying so, but I think that when you're dealing with a situation that's making you re-evaluate yourself, everything you do, and your methods of coping are what caused this problem (meaning you don't have many coping strategies to deal with your coping strategies), it can make you a lot less tolerant of small annoyances and make you more sensitive to perceived slights (you hate yourself and everyone else does, too).

I'm of the mind that not being able to read volume and tone here might impact how we read it.  Faye could also be speaking quietly and leaning in to both make a point and to be heard more clearly.  Neither she nor Claire are mind-readers, so they might not realize how badly they're coming off to each other.  It happens, and hopefully, both will be able to move past it.

[mawnck]

I still can't work out why she has sculpted a phallus without having the rest of the installation to which she can attach it!

I can't find it now, but I'm SURE I remember she was in the process of constructing a penis cat in one of the strips.

If I'm going insane, please disregard.

[Zebediah]

I'm very sorry, but you're not going insane. She was sculpting a bonercat espresso machine.

[Thrillho]

only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her).

Moderator Comment

This is absolutely not an okay way to refer to another forumite.

[BenRG]

only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her).

This is absolutely not an okay way to refer to another forumite.

I feel that I should state, unequivocally, that I was not referring to anyone who is a current member of this forum. Valky was just being funny in her own way.

[SeaWoodStage]

[INSIGHTFUL PARAGRAPHS REMOVED DUE TO SPACE]

In fact, if I can channel my inner David Letterman for a moment...

Top 10 Things That Will Happen in QC Before Marten Stands Up To Faye

10. Cosette learns how to juggle.
9. Wil writes a poem that isn't hilariously pretentious garbage.
8. Yelling Bird uses no profanity for a whole strip, apologises for previous outbursts.
7. Hanners puts an ad on Craigslist, "Friend With Benefits Wanted!"
6. Raven returns.
5. Dora begs the rest of the cast to tell her how to run her life.
4. Sven and Hannelore...together at last!
3. Week long arc featuring The Bros meeting their British counterparts, The Lads.
2. Jeph cameos in an extended - and dated - parody of the Architect scene from The Matrix Reloaded.

And the number one thing that will happen in QC before Marten stands up to Faye...

1. The Shame Orb becomes canon.

This is the first thing I’ve read on this forum that made me laugh out loud, and I’ve never even watched Letterman, nor do I know who he is, other than that he’s a chatshow host? Is he similar to Jimmy Kimmel? Regardless, I think that was comedy nailing, my friend.

I actually haven't seen any significant Claire-hate on this strip either here or on the Subreddit (the latter being a shock as the place is virulently anti-Claire but only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her). I would say that the responses I've seen have been about 7/8 saying Faye was in the wrong or at the very least saying that she is under duress due to her trying to break an addiction and a mistake like this shouldn't be held against her.

I once looked at that subreddit out of curiosity. It seems rather angry. Part of the reason I chose to start posting on this forum was because it seemed like one of the most thoughtful forums out there. I haven’t seen any particularly virulent Claire-hate here either. I feel like this might be the only place where people can legitimately discuss Claire’s personality / portrayal, without getting into things that are basically irrelevant.

[tywren]

And therein lies the problem, when she said those things to Marten, she was trying to draw his attention to the fact that his girlfriend was tap dancing all over her last nerve. To which he replied with an "I Know, Isn't It Great" attitude. After trying twice and failing, Faye took maters into her own hands, and i really can't fault her for it, because the person who should have been telling Clare to tone it down, was instead passively encouraging her to take it up to eleven.

Yeah, he really should've controlled his uppity girl. How dare she comment on a metal penis. Girlfriends should be seen and not heard.

Better to say he should have been more attentive to the situation, and reined in his guest.

I don't know, maybe my circle has different social dynamics, but for us, taking responsibility for a guest is a thing. If you invite someone over who gets drunk, and they shit in the sink, you get to clean it up; if your guest blows their stack, and starts punching holes in the walls, or knocking out windows, you pay for the repairs; and if your guest is being an obnoxious ass, who's pissing other people off, it's on you to tell them to knock it off, or take them home. So in my mind, when Faye turns to Marten as the person who invited Claire, and not once but twice calls attention to the fact that her shit is wearing thin, it was his responsibility to take some form of action. Instead he keeps going "I Know" with that "isn't it so wonderful" smile on his face, completely oblivious to the fact that what he finds so cute, and endearing, others find grating on the same level as masturbating with a cheese shredder.

[tangerinewarrior]

Top 10 Things That Will Happen in QC Before Marten Stands Up To Faye

10. Cosette learns how to juggle.
9. Wil writes a poem that isn't hilariously pretentious garbage.
8. Yelling Bird uses no profanity for a whole strip, apologises for previous outbursts.
7. Hanners puts an ad on Craigslist, "Friend With Benefits Wanted!"
6. Raven returns.
5. Dora begs the rest of the cast to tell her how to run her life.
4. Sven and Hannelore...together at last!
3. Week long arc featuring The Bros meeting their British counterparts, The Lads.
2. Jeph cameos in an extended - and dated - parody of the Architect scene from The Matrix Reloaded.

And the number one thing that will happen in QC before Marten stands up to Faye...

1. The Shame Orb becomes canon.

I do feel that this is going to build up to Marten standing up to Faye (in his own milquetoast way). While I get that you think it's never going to happen (given their history), Marten is eventually going to have to do so for Faye's own good. I recall him doing it before for other characters (I want to say he told her not to tease Hannelore, but I could have that wrong), so doing it for Claire would be in character. But honestly, I think he'll have a heart to heart with Faye not because of this, but because Faye's life has imploded on her, and her surliness isn't going to help. Ultimately, both ladies are acting poorly here, and I think Marten's face in the last panel makes it clear he is realizing this.

It'll be interesting, what happens. On a side note, I can also see Pintsize being the one who sets/helps Faye the most. We've seen his rational-sensible side before (his conversation with Momo about his relationship with Marten), and he's good about having heart to hearts with people. He's also the third roommate in the apartment, and probably knows more about Faye and Marten than they realize. 

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Nope- I stand by my antiquated thoughts! Give me my 63 gallons to a Hogshead, none of this modern metric crap! Lazy Whales, gettin' fat off the govn'ment!

[Reaver]

MARTEN (off panel): "Claire, I love you; you're beautiful, funny and intelligent but you've got to stop being so cruel to people!"
CLAIRE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "Putting people down like that isn't cool and it isn't funny! It's unattractive Claire! It makes you look ugly and small!"

Why on earth would ANNNNNY boyfriend make sure to bring up that it makes his girlfriend "Ugly and unattractive"????

Of all the things to bring up, why her physical appearance due to an attitude a problem???? Touch on the sexist side and very un Marten like don't you think? Possibly

"But you've got to learn when to stop! It's starting to grate on some  people and I want them to LIKE my new girlfriend as much as I do!" Possibly but not  "YOU ARE PHYSICALLY UNATTRACTIVE AND UGLY WHEN YOU DO THESE THINGS" that's just...silly.

[SeaWoodStage]

And therein lies the problem, when she said those things to Marten, she was trying to draw his attention to the fact that his girlfriend was tap dancing all over her last nerve. To which he replied with an "I Know, Isn't It Great" attitude. After trying twice and failing, Faye took maters into her own hands, and i really can't fault her for it, because the person who should have been telling Clare to tone it down, was instead passively encouraging her to take it up to eleven.

Yeah, he really should've controlled his uppity girl. How dare she comment on a metal penis. Girlfriends should be seen and not heard.

Better to say he should have been more attentive to the situation, and reined in his guest.

I don't know, maybe my circle has different social dynamics, but for us, taking responsibility for a guest is a thing. If you invite someone over who gets drunk, and they shit in the sink, you get to clean it up; if your guest blows their stack, and starts punching holes in the walls, or knocking out windows, you pay for the repairs; and if your guest is being an obnoxious ass, who's pissing other people off, it's on you to tell them to knock it off, or take them home. So in my mind, when Faye turns to Marten as the person who invited Claire, and not once but twice calls attention to the fact that her shit is wearing thin, it was his responsibility to take some form of action. Instead he keeps going "I Know" with that "isn't it so wonderful" smile on his face, completely oblivious to the fact that what he finds so cute, and endearing, others find grating on the same level as masturbating with a cheese shredder.

I disagree with you here. Shitting in the sink, punching holes in the wall, and knocking out windows are all things that you should take responsibility for if it’s your guest that did those things. But “being an obnoxious ass”? Claire isn’t being an obnoxious ass. She went too far, and turned joshing into something that was too close to the bone, but that’s a lesson she has to learn, and here might be her place to learn it. Faye could stand to learn that lesson as well. I also don’t agree with your take on Marten here. I was actually pleased that he didn’t overreact, or jump to the defense of either Claire or Faye. This is a very complicated situation, and it’s probably best that Faye and Claire figure out how to understand each other in their own time.

[BenRG]

MARTEN (off panel): "Claire, I love you; you're beautiful, funny and intelligent but you've got to stop being so cruel to people!"
CLAIRE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "Putting people down like that isn't cool and it isn't funny! It's unattractive Claire! It makes you look ugly and small!"

Why on earth would ANNNNNY boyfriend make sure to bring up that it makes his girlfriend "Ugly and unattractive"????

There is such a thing as 'metaphor', you know. The most beautiful woman in the world can be made ugly in someone's eyes by an ugly streak in their behaviour, just as a person of only mundane looks can become divine in appearance by a beautiful streak in their behaviour.

[Reaver]

MARTEN (off panel): "Claire, I love you; you're beautiful, funny and intelligent but you've got to stop being so cruel to people!"
CLAIRE: "But..."
MARTEN (off panel): "Putting people down like that isn't cool and it isn't funny! It's unattractive Claire! It makes you look ugly and small!"

Why on earth would ANNNNNY boyfriend make sure to bring up that it makes his girlfriend "Ugly and unattractive"????

There is such a thing as 'metaphor', you know. The most beautiful woman in the world can be made ugly in someone's eyes by an ugly streak in their behaviour, just as a person of only mundane looks can become divine in appearance by a beautiful streak in their behaviour.

Maybe women get enough shit about how they look everywhere else, and you should just focus on the fact their bad attitude makes them harder to get along with/ to like, instead of twisting the knife of  "you're not being pretty!"

[Thrillho]

only the resident bitter transphobe has criticised her).

This is absolutely not an okay way to refer to another forumite.

I feel that I should state, unequivocally, that I was not referring to anyone who is a current member of this forum. Valky was just being funny in her own way.

I should have been more specific. Former forumites are also not to be discussed in such a way as they are not here to defend themselves.