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Momo

May

Bubbles

Faye

Pintsize

Station

Spookybot

Spathe Ham and Waffles

Purple Monkey Dishwashers

Mods, help me!

[SmilingCat]

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

Out of curiosity, does this entitle me to yell at people who say hi to me because they have the audacity to walk around without the assistance of a cane?

I think it'd be very therapeutic for me if I could re-frame my disability as everybody else's problem. Those assholes with their properly functioning hearts and their two kidneys...

[Reaver]

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

Out of curiosity, does this entitle me to yell at people who say hi to me because they have the audacity to walk around without the assistance of a cane?

I think it'd be very therapeutic for me if I could re-frame my disability as everybody else's problem. Those assholes with their properly functioning hearts and their two kidneys...

Not to mention May's condition is HER OWN DAMN FAULT.

Winslow didn't walk up to someone who's been in a wheelchair going "HEY LOOKIT MY LEGS"

It would be one thing if he was flaunting his  "Privilege" in the face of someone that can honestly NOT HELP their current state, but May made her own damn bed, and she gets to lay in it.

[Roxtar]

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

If you can't rejoice with a friend in their good fortune... regardless of your circumstances, you're a shitty friend.

[snufflebottoms]

The problem isn't Winslow's approach, it's May's foul attitude. It's like being mad at a child of wealthy parents because that child gets breaks in life that you may not due to having less wealthy parents. It's not the child's "fault" that their life may be easier simply due to their parentage.

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

If you can't rejoice with a friend in their good fortune... regardless of your circumstances, you're a shitty friend.

which is my point. May *finds* a reason to be shitty to people.

[zisraelsen]

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

Out of curiosity, does this entitle me to yell at people who say hi to me because they have the audacity to walk around without the assistance of a cane?

I think it'd be very therapeutic for me if I could re-frame my disability as everybody else's problem. Those assholes with their properly functioning hearts and their two kidneys...

Not to mention May's condition is HER OWN DAMN FAULT.

Winslow didn't walk up to someone who's been in a wheelchair going "HEY LOOKIT MY LEGS"

It would be one thing if he was flaunting his  "Privilege" in the face of someone that can honestly NOT HELP their current state, but May made her own damn bed, and she gets to lay in it.

My counterargument to SmilingCat would be this:

I have ulcerative colitis which essentially means I'm allergic to my own intestines. If someone I know, who knew that I had this condition, came up to me and said "Hey, you know what I sure do enjoy having? a well-functioning digestive tract! Look at how many nutrients I can absorb!" I'd call them a dickhead for it, whether or not they were flaunting their intestines or were genuinely grateful for them (I do recognize the absurdity of the metaphor but it's what I got).

My counterargument to Reaver would be that, even if I had caused this condition by diet or drinking or whatever, I'd still call them a dickhead for it.

[ChipNoir]

I don't think there's a single person that is arguing on behalf of May's...methods.

But the question is entirely more about Winslow's behavior and awareness of other people, and the bottom line is he really has no idea how to behave besides being a very basic, chipper person. Frankly...It can be a little grating when people walk blithely through life unaware of other people's problems.

Just because there's no malice behind your actions, doesn't mean you're doing the right thing.

At any rate, we DO have a character who is pointing Winslow in the right direction. My love for Bubbles candid insight grows ever more

As for May "Deserving" her situation, well, can't agree there. AI or human, the punative system for ex-cons is atrocious, and more often than not just leads people right back into the prison system for lack of resources and support networks to reintegrate into society. It's improving, but May's condition is very similar to what a lot of ex-cons face, even when only having light sentences for drug use or other ridiculous charges.

Just how long after you've paid your dues to society do you have to live a life hobbled? Some crimes are unforgiveable, but if you feel it's okay to shove someone back into society after a point, that person needs to be allowed to function in society, or else they just return to the system, or worse, fall through the cracks to become something so much worse.

I admire May for how she lives her life in this regard. She is working SO damned hard. I'm not happy with way she treated Winslow, and I feel he's more an unfortunate recipient of her anger at a much larger problem.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

"turn your privilege into a means for good"
Dangit Jeph!
Tomorrow I will go demonstrate for the people of Charlottesville -- Bubbles will not allow me to keep my self respect otherwise!

[SmilingCat]

My counterargument to SmilingCat would be this:

I have ulcerative colitis which essentially means I'm allergic to my own intestines. If someone I know, who knew that I had this condition, came up to me and said "Hey, you know what I sure do enjoy having? a well-functioning digestive tract! Look at how many nutrients I can absorb!" I'd call them a dickhead for it, whether or not they were flaunting their intestines or were genuinely grateful for them (I do recognize the absurdity of the metaphor but it's what I got).

So your answer to my question is that, yes, I am entitled to hate people just because their bodies function properly? Some days, just being able to walk is something for me to envy.

[Reaver]

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

Out of curiosity, does this entitle me to yell at people who say hi to me because they have the audacity to walk around without the assistance of a cane?

I think it'd be very therapeutic for me if I could re-frame my disability as everybody else's problem. Those assholes with their properly functioning hearts and their two kidneys...

Not to mention May's condition is HER OWN DAMN FAULT.

Winslow didn't walk up to someone who's been in a wheelchair going "HEY LOOKIT MY LEGS"

It would be one thing if he was flaunting his  "Privilege" in the face of someone that can honestly NOT HELP their current state, but May made her own damn bed, and she gets to lay in it.

My counterargument to SmilingCat would be this:

I have ulcerative colitis which essentially means I'm allergic to my own intestines. If someone I know, who knew that I had this condition, came up to me and said "Hey, you know what I sure do enjoy having? a well-functioning digestive tract! Look at how many nutrients I can absorb!" I'd call them a dickhead for it, whether or not they were flaunting their intestines or were genuinely grateful for them (I do recognize the absurdity of the metaphor but it's what I got).

My counterargument to Reaver would be that, even if I had caused this condition by diet or drinking or whatever, I'd still call them a dickhead for it.

Except now you're changing the strip because Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!" Instead of the tiny MP3 body that Martin asks to "Borrow" so they can watch youtube  videos on.

He basically stopped being a cute accessory and got to be a person.

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

If he was showing off his new body and she was in a toaster, yeah that would be dickish.

[SmilingCat]

I don't think there's a single person that is arguing on behalf of May's...methods.

But the question is entirely more about Winslow's behavior and awareness of other people, and the bottom line is he really has no idea how to behave besides being a very basic, chipper person. Frankly...It can be a little grating when people walk blithely through life unaware of other people's problems.

There's actually nothing wrong with not being aware of the problems of every single person we meet. Tragically, omniscience isn't part of our feature package.

[SmilingCat]

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

Don't rule out the convenience store affect. I was pretty crabby the first time I had to make sure a heroin addict didn't kill herself in the bathroom, too.

[ChipNoir]

I don't think there's a single person that is arguing on behalf of May's...methods.

But the question is entirely more about Winslow's behavior and awareness of other people, and the bottom line is he really has no idea how to behave besides being a very basic, chipper person. Frankly...It can be a little grating when people walk blithely through life unaware of other people's problems.

There's actually nothing wrong with not being aware of the problems of every single person we meet. Tragically, omniscience isn't part of our feature package.

I'd argue that much of what we ignore or unaware of SHOULD be things we're aware of. Mind you, I'm still convinced May is more angry about his 'decision' more than him getting the chassis. As pointed out, she has no problem with Momo having a much better chassis. But Momo committed to earning it, and is very much aware of the fact that this is something deeply important to AIs as a whole.

Momo spends a lot of time studying the history of AI's and their struggles. That's why she was so earnest about getting her new chassis. Meanwhile I really don't think Winslow has ever tried to be aware of anything except his tiny world that revolved entirely around Hannelore and occasionally Pintsize.

[Reaver]

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

Don't rule out the convenience store affect. I was pretty crabby the first time I had to make sure a heroin addict didn't kill herself in the bathroom, too.

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

[ChipNoir]

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

Don't rule out the convenience store affect. I was pretty crabby the first time I had to make sure a heroin addict didn't kill herself in the bathroom, too.

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

Does make me wonder what her job was that she had access to that kinda database in the first place. You'd think given her very obvious personality ...quirks, that they'd be skeptical about giving her such a job in the first place.

AI's are emergent. I still wonder if May might be a lot 'older' than we think...

[zisraelsen]

I don't think there's a single person that is arguing on behalf of May's...methods.

But the question is entirely more about Winslow's behavior and awareness of other people, and the bottom line is he really has no idea how to behave besides being a very basic, chipper person. Frankly...It can be a little grating when people walk blithely through life unaware of other people's problems.

There's actually nothing wrong with not being aware of the problems of every single person we meet. Tragically, omniscience isn't part of our feature package.

That is true. I still think May is justified in her reaction. There's a difference between hating someone because they're better off than you and hating someone because they don't seem to care about your struggles. Maybe Winslow considered her too close a friend and the conflict came from that confusion.

[Reaver]

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

Don't rule out the convenience store affect. I was pretty crabby the first time I had to make sure a heroin addict didn't kill herself in the bathroom, too.

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

Does make me wonder what her job was that she had access to that kinda database in the first place. You'd think given her very obvious personality ...quirks, that they'd be skeptical about giving her such a job in the first place.

AI's are emergent. I still wonder if May might be a lot 'older' than we think...

Personal headcanon was that she worked at a Wells Fargo 

[ChipNoir]

I don't think there's a single person that is arguing on behalf of May's...methods.

But the question is entirely more about Winslow's behavior and awareness of other people, and the bottom line is he really has no idea how to behave besides being a very basic, chipper person. Frankly...It can be a little grating when people walk blithely through life unaware of other people's problems.

There's actually nothing wrong with not being aware of the problems of every single person we meet. Tragically, omniscience isn't part of our feature package.

That is true. I still think May is justified in her reaction. There's a difference between hating someone because they're better off than you and hating someone because they don't seem to care about your struggles. Maybe Winslow considered her too close a friend and the conflict came from that confusion.

Also, I'd point out that May isn't exactly acting...that hatefully. Angry, and grumpy, and I think we all have that moment where we kinda want even our best of friends to bugger off. I think "hate" is a very strong word for a grumpy telling off.

But maybe that's just me.

[Reaver]

Honestly I was expecting May to ask Winslow if his body was anatomically correct, rather than become the salt bot 5000

[SmilingCat]

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

I was more meaning that she might be in a bad mood due to problems at work, not that she isn't responsible for her own problems.

[brasca]

While we're on the subject of privilege let's consider Winslow's benefactor, Hannelore.  She has the money to buy this since her parents are super rich and she can ask them for money.  She's only a barista because she wants to live a normal life to overcome her anxieties.  If she were disowned the situation would be quite different.  By May's logic Hannelore is a rich girl slumming it and yet she's said nothing like that to her.  Perhaps her admiration blinds her.

Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.

How do you know this?  There was probably some time between Hannelore leaving the space station to when she first met Marten.  Perhaps she made similar faux pas or worse.  I wouldn't be surprised considering her many anxieties.  While I can understand some of the resentment taking it out on Winslow changes nothing.  Moreover, it can be interpreted in different ways and one might be to disassociate completely from disadvantaged AIs to avoid problems.  That wouldn't be good since not everyone in May's predicament has the same attitude.

[ChipNoir]

May's just bitter because she's in a shitty "body"  because of her own shitty decisions, and that Shitty body is her parolle

Don't rule out the convenience store affect. I was pretty crabby the first time I had to make sure a heroin addict didn't kill herself in the bathroom, too.

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

Does make me wonder what her job was that she had access to that kinda database in the first place. You'd think given her very obvious personality ...quirks, that they'd be skeptical about giving her such a job in the first place.

AI's are emergent. I still wonder if May might be a lot 'older' than we think...

Personal headcanon was that she worked at a Wells Fargo 

My own head cannon is that perhaps 'older' AI's that were emergent could have developed with a lot fewer of the social protocols that Momo and some other AI's have. It would be an interesting explanation for why some AI's are extremely devoted to the well being other others, while others are exceptionally machiavellion like CorpseWitch , and you have wild cards like May and Pintsize that are just...weird.

It's fun to think of the idea that May is one of the earlier AI's that emerged out of software that was meant to process financial records and databases with a human perspective, and nobody expected her to want a will of her own in those pioneer days, much less want her own body and be willing to steal money to get it. We know so very little of the time between the very first Emergent and what it took for AI's to be considered civilians with civil rights (Of which we're still not really sure what they are).

[zisraelsen]

Honestly I was expecting May to ask Winslow if his body was anatomically correct, rather than become the salt bot 5000

To be fair she's a significant advance beyond the SB100.

[Reaver]

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

I was more meaning that she might be in a bad mood due to problems at work, not that she isn't responsible for her own problems.

Oh, yeah I can see that, I'ma salt mine after working 8 hours at my job too, but I don't typically lash out at my friends because of it...

I do that at coworkers.. 

[ChipNoir]

Her job situation's her fault too, her crime was embezzlement, I don't blame anyone for not wanting to hire Miss Funds funneler  for anything more than  convenience/courtesy work (Which is what  /I/ currently do for a living)

I was more meaning that she might be in a bad mood due to problems at work, not that she isn't responsible for her own problems.

Oh, yeah I can see that, I'ma salt mine after working 8 hours at my job too, but I don't typically lash out at my friends because of it...

I do that at coworkers.. 

I spend 8 hours a work day beaming, bubbling, and entertaining my customers.

So yes, when my clingy housemate decided after a 10 hour shift that he wants to use me as his sounding board for his insane self affirmations...

I kinda bit his head off...crunch.

[Shjade]

Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.

How do you know this?

If you're going to go hypothetical on fiction that could have happened off-page, how do you know May hasn't said anything like this to Hannelore? 

What I know is what we've seen and what we haven't seen. We haven't seen Hannelore show up to remind May about how rich she is while May's at work, and no one's said she did it off-page, so until we hear otherwise, it hasn't happened.

Regarding the mess of posts quoting me above: I'll reiterate that May's still a pretty crappy person to be around, and I probably wouldn't consider her a friend myself. That doesn't make her reaction wrong or unjustified. As ChipNoir pointed out, it wasn't even extreme: Winslow was acting like access to life-changing resources is just casual whimsy in front of someone who struggles just to scrape by with basic life needs. That is, itself, pretty rude, and getting a rough response should come as no surprise.

To put it another way (bold added for emphasis):

Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!"

Having someone with vastly greater opportunities than you drop by to act like you're the same because they just one day decided to do something you've spent years struggling to do is...insulting, to put it mildly. Even if it's not intentional, it trivializes what you had to do to reach the same goal they just met in an afternoon.

[Reaver]

Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.

How do you know this?

If you're going to go hypothetical on fiction that could have happened off-page, how do you know May hasn't said anything like this to Hannelore? 

What I know is what we've seen and what we haven't seen. We haven't seen Hannelore show up to remind May about how rich she is while May's at work, and no one's said she did it off-page, so until we hear otherwise, it hasn't happened.

Regarding the mess of posts quoting me above: I'll reiterate that May's still a pretty crappy person to be around, and I probably wouldn't consider her a friend myself. That doesn't make her reaction wrong or unjustified. As ChipNoir pointed out, it wasn't even extreme: Winslow was acting like access to life-changing resources is just casual whimsy in front of someone who struggles just to scrape by with basic life needs. That is, itself, pretty rude, and getting a rough response should come as no surprise.

To put it another way (bold added for emphasis):

Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!"

Having someone with vastly greater opportunities than you drop by to act like you're the same because they just one day decided to do something you've spent years struggling to do is...insulting, to put it mildly. Even if it's not intentional, it trivializes what you had to do to reach the same goal they just met in an afternoon.

I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.

Winslow's been a glorified pet that got borrowed and used to watch videos, and has been left alone for long periods of time.

The message has gotten smudged by possibly not being represented by the best character options.

[Shjade]

I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.

People keep making this argument. I don't know why.

Yeah, she made mistakes and they put her in a bad position in the present. So? Winslow's where he is because he only made pure, karmically-positive choices in his life and somehow deserves what he has more than her, rather than just being luckier?

That's not how it works.

[ChipNoir]

Or perhaps Hannelore hasn't shown up at May's workplace to show off what she's been so easily purchasing with her wealth without considering the context of that conversation to then merit such a response from May.

How do you know this?

If you're going to go hypothetical on fiction that could have happened off-page, how do you know May hasn't said anything like this to Hannelore? 

What I know is what we've seen and what we haven't seen. We haven't seen Hannelore show up to remind May about how rich she is while May's at work, and no one's said she did it off-page, so until we hear otherwise, it hasn't happened.

Regarding the mess of posts quoting me above: I'll reiterate that May's still a pretty crappy person to be around, and I probably wouldn't consider her a friend myself. That doesn't make her reaction wrong or unjustified. As ChipNoir pointed out, it wasn't even extreme: Winslow was acting like access to life-changing resources is just casual whimsy in front of someone who struggles just to scrape by with basic life needs. That is, itself, pretty rude, and getting a rough response should come as no surprise.

To put it another way (bold added for emphasis):

Winslow didn't do that, he walked up to someone he thought was a friend, and basically went "Look! I got a new body! I'm just like you guys now!"

Having someone with vastly greater opportunities than you drop by to act like you're the same because they just one day decided to do something you've spent years struggling to do is...insulting, to put it mildly. Even if it's not intentional, it trivializes what you had to do to reach the same goal they just met in an afternoon.

I don't think May was the character to have this situation with then, because honestly she's struggling due to her own fault, and has clearly been an independent being for a while.

Winslow's been a glorified pet that got borrowed and used to watch videos, and has been left alone for long periods of time.

The message has gotten smudged by possibly not being represented by the best character options.

Or y'know, the message is that this shit happens. As I've said for myself, I've BEEN in Winslow's shoes, stumbling head first into a situation with the best of intentions, getting royally ripped a new one, and feeling pretty damned hurt and resentful. But the true message is there are still people out there like Bubbles to point us in the right direction.

May is not Winslow's friend. Lets be clear on that. I don't think I've ever even seen them in the same comic panel before now, and if so, I certainly don't remember it. Now with that said, I really do hope Momo rips her a new one for this. I don't believe she should get off scott free for this. She was shitty. Winslow was...Winslow.

But now that important factor is Winslow has Bubbles to guru him through a lot of tough choices that she's probably had to make herself.

[Milayna]

So, how could Winslow have approached the situation better? He obviously needed to address the new chassis at some point, which is something Momo never needed to do (she was already in her new chassis when May was introduced). Was he tactless in his choice of words, or in his timing, with her at work? Would this tension have existed no matter how he tried to approach it, just by virtue of how easily he acquired something May is so frustrated to be denied?

Given the context, any approach he did would likely have created tension. Any interaction at all would, though that could be mitigated by having her approach him about it. For instance, at a party at Marten's place. Given his excitement, such a passive approach is unlikely (and also opens up its own can of worms - "how long ago did you change? Why didn't you tell me).

Had it been me: I'd pick up a peace offering, first. Nothing expensive, obviously, and nothing related to body maintenance or modification just as obviously, but something cheap and that she'd appreciate like the newest issue of Prolapse Monthly. By the look of it, he entered pretty abruptly: A better approach would have been opening the door firmly but smoothly, making sure the bell didn't jingle too loud; and a casual approach - not sweeping in, but not sneaking; make sure he gets her attention, but not jarringly. Watch the impact of his footsteps, and greet her before approaching the counter. The goal is to be nonthreatening, to make it plain that the space is entirely under control (having such a woobie figure certainly gives Winslow extra points here).

Assuming AI's recognize each other by sight and not a broadcasted hash or something, he'd have to address the elephant in the room quickly, because he looks like a stranger. "May! Hi! It's Winslow!" is a fine start, make sure he's holding the peace offering visibly but not in front of his chest or above, or outward. Watch what she responds to: If she says "what?" and eyes the magazine, start on that first: "I was on my way to see you and saw this and figured you didn't have it yet since it's new so I got it." and hand it over. Continue to talk about that if she continues to focus on that. If she responds to his body first, Then put the magazine on the counter, visible but off to the side, and talk about the body.

Once on the new body subject, however they get there, that's where he needs to be REALLY careful. His words in the comic, third panel, were careless (not that I can blame him, really, but I'm going through a hypothetical here). I'm not sure what would be best, but something along the lines of: "Oh! yeah, I got a new body - I'm letting everyone know now so that they can recognize me! I'll be able to pull my own weight now, like you and Momo and Miss Bubbles! So, yknow, if there's something I can help with now, let me know!" Of course, watch her body language, expressions and responses and adjust his own tone, body language and words based on what's hitting and what's not.* If she hasn't rejected him, then the conversation can probably move on to the magazine, or maybe after a bit more chatter about the new body.

The goal of the words I chose is to make sure that May doesn't feel singled out, appreciate her for her work, and make clear that he's rectifying a deficiency that was beneath her, not being a rich kid playing with a new toy above her. His attempt in-comic at citing the other humanoid got obliterated by the "I decided to be a humanoid" part. Given the context and her disposition, I can't guarentee that this would have avoided an incident, but as someone who's learned to be adept at keeping the peace, I have a fair degree of confidence.

*Of course, this is limited by the fact that I don't know to what extent AI chassis, especially reform chassis, or capable of emoting, and to what extent these emotes are relevent in AI communication.

[BenRG]

Here's a thought that suddenly occurred to me: I think that today's strip is set at the front door of the apartment. I'm wondering if Winslow was running home to hide (only to realise that Hannelore hadn't given him a key yet). I'm thinking that reminds us that, in psychological and emotional terms, he is very young; perhaps even 'younger' than Sam. His response to Bubbles just reinforces that perspective; he's a barely-teen reacting to a trusted adult.

It's nice that Bubbles had time to help (and I had suspected from the start of this part of the arc that Jeph would use the character in this way). Because of where we are, I won't get into the implicit political message and instead focus on to the real meaning to me: You can't control how other people feel about you because feelings aren't always based on rational responses; some people will never be able to see beyond their own hurt or resentment and it's futile (and possibly destructive) to try to make them do so. What you and and must control is the good that you choose to do.


[Edit]
Fix'd Typo

[Milayna]

How the child chooses to flaunt their much easier life IS their "fault," however.

I don't begrudge rich kids for being born into wealth. Having one show up at my job just to remind me of how much wealthier they are compared to me, however? That sounds like an excellent opportunity for said rich kid to receive some valuable life experience in how to fuck right off.

The problem here is, indeed, in Winslow's approach, especially the where and when of its occurrence.

tl;dr - Winslow has no tact and May isn't the type to pretend he does.

Out of curiosity, does this entitle me to yell at people who say hi to me because they have the audacity to walk around without the assistance of a cane?

I think it'd be very therapeutic for me if I could re-frame my disability as everybody else's problem. Those assholes with their properly functioning hearts and their two kidneys...

Well, if you had a cane made of worm-eaten, crudely shaped balsawood that kept breaking + severe osteoporosis and leprosy, a job that everybody thinks is for bottomfeeders that barely paid enough for a new cane every few days so you wouldn't fall and shatter into a million pieces, and had to do illegal stuff to pay to get your leper face sewn back on (and would get you tied to a rack, literally, if The Man ever caught you at it), you had to walk past Fantabulous Freddie's Fantasy Bod Mods Emporium (and its customers) every day and the nice kid you've seen a few times decided to come swinging in saying "hey look! I decided to be tall like you and all my friends so Mom bought me GRIFFON LEGS!" I probably wouldn't blame you for being snippish either.

Nor would I blame you for being snippish in your real-life circumstances, if people come complaining directly to you about how sore they are after their marathon or how embarrassing it was to piss themselves when they got shitfaced drunk and forgot to go to the bathroom.

@ snufflebottoms: So, Winslow isn't obligated to care about other peoples' feelings, but other people (or is it just May) are obligated to defer his feelings? May's pain doesn't matter when she's the victim of Winslow's insensitivity, but Winslow's pain matters when he's the victim of hers? Nah, gonna reject that. I can tell May doesn't matter to you so arguing as if she does is futile, so I'm just going to say that I reject your philosophy.

[pwhodges]

(detailed description of social interaction.)

And just when would Winslow have had the opportunity to learn the techniques that we meatbags spend a whole childhood attempting to learn (and still often failing)?   Do you picture a plug-in "social graces" module that comes with every upgrade from a non-humanoid to a humanoid body (pre-programmed with knowledge of your friends and acquaintances, at that)?  And in learning terms, is it better for Winslow to have been told how to behave (in circumstances which might, after all, have played out differently) or to learn from experience, as we do - which is what's happening right now, with guidance from Bubbles?

[Gyrre]

D'awwwww.

I wonder how the echo chamber hordes on tumblr would react to this?

[cesariojpn]

This story arc is turning real ugly. I mean, the use of the word "privileged" pretty much has muddied the waters to the point where Jeph's planned idea for the arc is turning toxic. There are so many things wrong with the arc I have to wonder if this can be salvaged to be coherent.

Jeph brings back a character not seen since 2015, interacts with two characters (May and Bubbles) that we have not seen interacting with Winslow (off-strip meetings not counting), and May acting like your typical bitch only in a way that seems to be ridiculously out-of-character. I really hate to see how the rest of the strips is gonna turn out.

[BenRG]

@cesariojpn,

I really can't see how you could possibly see May's reaction two strips back as out-of-character. She's shown before that she's bitter about being where she is and she's demonstrated frustration about her chassis and the difficulty she's having with maintaining it. She's also shown that she is able to lash out at people, even friends, when she's upset or she's feeling the weight of her circumstances too acutely.

With regard to Winslow, Jeph has been going through a phase recently of switching primary characters (Marten, Claire, Hannelore and Dora) into supporting roles and bring secondary or even background characters (Renee and Elliott) forwards and giving them their own distinct primary arcs. So using Winslow as part of his current evident intent to use QC to explore how AIs as well as their distinct needs and culture would really work in a near-contemporary North America is entirely explicable.

[JoeCovenant]

Well...
This is a turn I never expected.

Are we about to get a lecture on Noblesse Oblige?

(Seems I'm having a lot of trouble with "unfair transference of responsibilities" in a lot of my online reading at the moment!)

[Cypher]

NOTE: No offence meant to anyone; if I've overlooked a point that might cause offence I apologise in advance; these are just some thoughts I had after reading the thread and this week's comics so far, so take with a pinch of salt please.

To be honest, if Winslow- basically Hannelore's 'pet' for his existence in the comic so far- is somehow obligated to make the world a better place just because of the fairly limited 'privilege' he's had, surely Hannelore, who doesn't really do anything but work through her own neuroses and issues by working at a coffee shop, should be held accountable for her own good fortune to a much greater extent? I mean, she's got access to untold funds, and by all means I understand her personal issues are crippling and unquestionably warrant working on however she needs to do so, but surely ALONGSIDE that she could, I don't know, fund something that benefits something, or someone? AIs? Winslow probably hasn't had anything in the way of material benefit from Hannelore's family wealth since, frankly, as a pseudo-iPod he didn't NEED anything except a charging point (of course, unfettered, guaranteed access to said charging point is something less fortunate AIs couldn't rely upon, but May and Momo both have this).

Really, to me, Winslow never really had that much tangible privilege anyway (in general terms- notwithstanding the parallels people are drawing with, for example, Claire's situation, which I can basically apprehend but cannot presume to comment upon, as it's not something regarding which I'm sufficiently knowledgeable)- being a sounding board for the, suffice it to say, intense Hannelore, even if that was the 'contract' (I think these are the terms people use here for the relationship between human and AI) he accepted, can't have been a walk in the park; I recall at least one occasion on which he was panicked on her behalf. Yes, he has a roof over his head- so does May, so does Momo (see the aforementioned charging point mention above also). He doesn't have to work to live there- but existed (until literally a few strips back) as basically an iPod with no autonomy (at least, little that he could physically exercise) and, frankly, little attention paid to him and certainly bordering on no respect given; at least Momo had the eel thing and electric shock system to engender said respect when overlooked, and May, despite her rickety chassis, has the strong personality needed to carry her through pretty much all difficulties she encounters (although it doesn't always turn out in her favour). I can understand arguments that May's always kind of a jerk, and that she might feel sore about Winslow just waltzing in and saying 'look at me!'; no-one likes so see someone's good fortune thrust under their nose when they themselves are having a hard time, but she could have given him the benefit of the doubt based on what he's usually like (although as someone commented, is there any proof they've even interacted before, aside from the fact that Winslow addresses her familiarly?)- to be honest I'm more surprised by Momo, the one we might have considered a friend to Winslow (granted, the point someone made about her having outgrown him is a very good one; nonetheless she's supposed to be well-socialised and might have made more of an effort, or at least been able to understand his pleasure); given she has a social protocol database, surely she could have thought of something further- even if non-committal- to say to him? 'I'm glad for you; I hope you enjoy getting used to it!' or SOMETHING. It seemed more like she didn't want to bother, so didn't. Even if she said something like 'we can talk about it later/ tomorrow/ whatever' it might have seemed less... cold? Can a robot be cold? Either that or she automatically jumped to 'wow, what a jerk, coming in here and bragging about getting a fancy chassis for free', which... doesn't seem like something that would happen in reality? Surely for one to jump immediately to that kind of consideration evinces a want of good-fellowship, at the very least, and a strong tendency towards being curmudgeonly at worst, neither of which characteristic particularly seems to fit Momo- unless, as someone mentioned, this is all heading towards 'check your privilege' territory, in which case it makes sense. N.B. if it IS heading to 'check your privilege' territory, that's fine, I merely seek to imply that, with that end-goal in mind, certain factors make more sense than they otherwise might.

[oddtail]

To be honest, if Winslow- basically Hannelore's 'pet' for his existence in the comic so far- is somehow obligated to make the world a better place just because of the fairly limited 'privilege' he's had, surely Hannelore, who doesn't really do anything but work through her own neuroses and issues by working at a coffee shop, should be held accountable for her own good fortune to a much greater extent? I mean, she's got access to untold funds, and by all means I understand her personal issues are crippling and unquestionably warrant working on however she needs to do so, but surely ALONGSIDE that she could, I don't know, fund something that benefits something, or someone? AIs? Winslow probably hasn't had anything in the way of material benefit from Hannelore's family wealth since, frankly, as a pseudo-iPod he didn't NEED anything except a charging point (of course, unfettered, guaranteed access to said charging point is something less fortunate AIs couldn't rely upon, but May and Momo both have this).

I'll be honest. I think the comic does not address Hannelore as privileged because she's popular with the readers. Winslow is an easy (from the writing standpoint), non-offensive target for what I feel is a somewhat forced "check your privilege" lesson. It won't ruffle any feathers for the readers who love Hannelore as a character (and thus might react, gasp, in more than one way to HER being painted as privileged by the narrative), the ideological point will be made (if, in my personal opinion, poorly), but that wastes the potential for a deeper storyline or character exploration.

I'll admit, I'm not the fan of the previous few strips. Things that happen are in-character for everyone involved, it's just... very by-the-numbers. Even the fact that Bubbles is the one to say "look, privilege" feels a bit manipulative. She's a reasonable, level-headed person who knows how it is to be in a tough position, but she's also friendly, so she plays the role of the enlighten-er.

Granted, it may be my personal view towards politics and privilege and how it should be handled that colours my view of the comics, so I admit to a personal bias. But the comic never had a problem with Hanners being, in certain ways, EXTREMELY privileged, and now it goes for a character that... really isn't, all that much - just to illustrate a point.

I'm just not a fan of the writing, is all.

[SmilingCat]

Well, if you had a cane made of worm-eaten, crudely shaped balsawood that kept breaking + severe osteoporosis and leprosy, a job that everybody thinks is for bottomfeeders that barely paid enough for a new cane every few days so you wouldn't fall and shatter into a million pieces, and had to do illegal stuff to pay to get your leper face sewn back on (and would get you tied to a rack, literally, if The Man ever caught you at it), you had to walk past Fantabulous Freddie's Fantasy Bod Mods Emporium (and its customers) every day and the nice kid you've seen a few times decided to come swinging in saying "hey look! I decided to be tall like you and all my friends so Mom bought me GRIFFON LEGS!" I probably wouldn't blame you for being snippish either.

Nor would I blame you for being snippish in your real-life circumstances, if people come complaining directly to you about how sore they are after their marathon or how embarrassing it was to piss themselves when they got shitfaced drunk and forgot to go to the bathroom.

It's interesting how you first try to negate my disability and imply that I can't possibly be as bad off as may, then give me permission to be angry about it.  That is some grade A "not judging you" judgment. If I could actually function enough to have a job, I'd totally share that with my hypothetical coworkers around the water cooler.

That said, I would see no reason to get pissy with someone just because they told me that they got sore from running a marathon (maybe the guy who pissed themself. Depends. Did they clean it up when they sobered up? Do they smell of piss? Did they piss on anything I own?). And that's for a very simple reason. MY DISABILITY IS NOT THEIR FAULT. The fact that I can't walk a block without risking a blackout doesn't entitle me to be an asshole to anybody who can.

I'm actually much more likely to snap at idiots who think they're being sensitive by moderating their behavior around me. Your casual, kinda condescending acceptance might get you a punch in the nose.

[snufflebottoms]

@ snufflebottoms: So, Winslow isn't obligated to care about other peoples' feelings, but other people (or is it just May) are obligated to defer his feelings? May's pain doesn't matter when she's the victim of Winslow's insensitivity, but Winslow's pain matters when he's the victim of hers? Nah, gonna reject that. I can tell May doesn't matter to you so arguing as if she does is futile, so I'm just going to say that I reject your philosophy.

Oh give me a break. Winslow was immediately apologetic and back-peddling the INSTANT he felt May was hurt. May intended to be hurtful with her outburst.

(IICIH here. I fixed a quote tag.)

[snufflebottoms]

I'll be honest. I think the comic does not address Hannelore as privileged because she's popular with the readers. Winslow is an easy (from the writing standpoint), non-offensive target for what I feel is a somewhat forced "check your privilege" lesson.
I'm just not a fan of the writing, is all.

I think also because the comic focuses on big ways in which she is marginalized as well. Hanners's crippling mental health problems are more apparent than her family's wealth except when there are comics specifically about it.

I am not a fan either. Of this particular story-line or the forced "check your privilege" arc. I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that when Winslow tries to make-up for his existence offending May that she will reject his peace offering and tell him to shove it.

[Nunavuter]

On the surface, Bubbles' interaction with Winslow demonstrates that she sees Winslow as a less-experienced AI with a more formative degree of persona development. In short, she views him as a more "child like" AI.

For those of you old enough to recall the old TV programme "Leave It to Beaver," the exchange was very similar in tone to one that might happen between Ward Cleaver (played by Hugh  Beaumont) and the Beaver (Jerry Mathers) after the Beaver has run into a social problem stemming from his naivete and inexperience. (The show involved an Aesop every episode.)

I wonder if Bubbles might not take a mentoring role with Winslow. It would be good for her. I would have thought Momo would be the obvious candidate for such a role, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Momo is very much a "lawful good" persona, while Bubbles is more "neutral good" in her aspect, so her interactions with Winslow offer more opportunities for nuance. (In comparison, May tends to alternate between neutral evil and chaotic neutral).

In terms of years lived, Bubbles may not be any older than Winslow, but she has had a drastically different existence as a former combat AI and years of working alongside humans. (And possibly killing humans...)

Winslow has spent his entire existence up to this point as a house-bound "pet" AI. He probably has scores of GB of data pertaining to the world that he obtained online through his wifi-connected brain, but everything is just theory to him. (Pintsize has a similar degree of world exposure, but he strikes me as being a borderline sociopath or just really cynical).

[pwhodges]

There could have been an opportunity for Hanners to prepare Winslow more for the outside world - but perhaps that would have come over as too much forced exposition.  If Winslow gets home and she says "told you so", or "I warned you to be careful", then that's another matter.

[shanejayell]

And Bubbles saves the day again.

[brasca]

I'll be honest. I think the comic does not address Hannelore as privileged because she's popular with the readers. Winslow is an easy (from the writing standpoint), non-offensive target for what I feel is a somewhat forced "check your privilege" lesson.
I'm just not a fan of the writing, is all.

I think also because the comic focuses on big ways in which she is marginalized as well. Hanners's crippling mental health problems are more apparent than her family's wealth except when there are comics specifically about it.

I am not a fan either. Of this particular story-line or the forced "check your privilege" arc. I hope I am wrong but I have a feeling that when Winslow tries to make-up for his existence offending May that she will reject his peace offering and tell him to shove it.

Which may necessitate a little chat with Bubbles.

I like this most recent turn of events and it shows how far Bubbles has come if she can pep talk a fellow AI.  Seems fitting that she's wearing sweats.

[themacnut]

So, how could Winslow have approached the situation better? He obviously needed to address the new chassis at some point, which is something Momo never needed to do (she was already in her new chassis when May was introduced). Was he tactless in his choice of words, or in his timing, with her at work? Would this tension have existed no matter how he tried to approach it, just by virtue of how easily he acquired something May is so frustrated to be denied?

Given the context, any approach he did would likely have created tension. Any interaction at all would, though that could be mitigated by having her approach him about it. For instance, at a party at Marten's place. Given his excitement, such a passive approach is unlikely (and also opens up its own can of worms - "how long ago did you change? Why didn't you tell me).

Had it been me: I'd pick up a peace offering, first. Nothing expensive, obviously, and nothing related to body maintenance or modification just as obviously, but something cheap and that she'd appreciate like the newest issue of Prolapse Monthly. By the look of it, he entered pretty abruptly: A better approach would have been opening the door firmly but smoothly, making sure the bell didn't jingle too loud; (rest of very detailed approach deleted)

I'm sorry Milanya, but that approach would have gone badly as well, for one simple reason; even assuming he could pull it off with his limited social experience, sooner or later the conversation would have turned to how Winslow got his new chassis. Once May learned it was gifted to him, her resentment over her own barely-functional chassis that she can barely afford to maintain would flare up, and things would go downhill from there.

The only way Winslow could have avoided the resulting angry outburst would have been to quickly exit stage right before May could ask any questions. Really, his best overall move would have been to avoid May altogether for as long as possible.

[swapna]

I think the conversation was very predictable, and of course it's not just May's fault for being an abrasive Ass. We've never seen Winslow and May interact one-on-one before; they can't be close friends, if they are friends at all.
Which means that the only reason Winslow would seek her out - not in private,  but on her job where she can't leave, and he obviously doesn't want to buy something - is to show off his new chassis. To an acquaintance. For the sole purpose of validation and congratulations and showing off, he doesn't ask or care how she's doing at all.

... even Momo couldn't fake being super excited and happy for him, and she's basically sugar sprinkles personified.

Yes, May is an abrasive asshole, and she could've been nicer, but I understand. I also understand how happy and excited Winslow is, but sometimes you need a jerk to tell you that you have your head up your own ass so far that you can't see the world around you. Bubbles is just the right person to help Winslow find meaningful things to do except being Hanners' companion, since her conversation isn't a "check your privilege"-thing. It's a "now that you're aware of the resources you have, wanna do something good with them?"-conversation, which is what Winslow desperately needs.

Re: May deserves the shit she's in: if you start denying people basic healthcare and stick them in a carch-22 situation where they can't avoid breaking the terms of their parole either way, strip them of their dignity (the weird AI companion thing with Dale? Sticking her in a body that might appeal to the "customer"? Making her completely dependant on his survey responses that he can use as a threat? Yes, Dale was nice. He's also not the norm), robbing them of their body (remember, she just wanted to see the stars, so she must have been in a situation where she had no sensors to perceive them) and say that's fair and her own fault... We just won't agree on that, ever, to put it mildly.

[BenRG]

Does anyone think that Winslow might do well helping Momo out at the Robot Group Therapy meetings? He'd get a good idea of the sort of problems his brethren are confronting (both externally and in themselves). Just compiling questionnaire responses and other routine stuff to free up time for Momo?

[ChipNoir]

So, how could Winslow have approached the situation better? He obviously needed to address the new chassis at some point, which is something Momo never needed to do (she was already in her new chassis when May was introduced). Was he tactless in his choice of words, or in his timing, with her at work? Would this tension have existed no matter how he tried to approach it, just by virtue of how easily he acquired something May is so frustrated to be denied?

Given the context, any approach he did would likely have created tension. Any interaction at all would, though that could be mitigated by having her approach him about it. For instance, at a party at Marten's place. Given his excitement, such a passive approach is unlikely (and also opens up its own can of worms - "how long ago did you change? Why didn't you tell me).

Had it been me: I'd pick up a peace offering, first. Nothing expensive, obviously, and nothing related to body maintenance or modification just as obviously, but something cheap and that she'd appreciate like the newest issue of Prolapse Monthly. By the look of it, he entered pretty abruptly: A better approach would have been opening the door firmly but smoothly, making sure the bell didn't jingle too loud; (rest of very detailed approach deleted)

I'm sorry Milanya, but that approach would have gone badly as well, for one simple reason; even assuming he could pull it off with his limited social experience, sooner or later the conversation would have turned to how Winslow got his new chassis. Once May learned it was gifted to him, her resentment over her own barely-functional chassis that she can barely afford to maintain would flare up, and things would go downhill from there.

The only way Winslow could have avoided the resulting angry outburst would have been to quickly exit stage right before May could ask any questions. Really, his best overall move would have been to avoid May altogether for as long as possible.

Again though, she knows Momo. I really, really, really think you're looking at this from the wrong angle.

In terms of Hanner's privalege, this HAS been addressed. She IS aware of what her position and money means, and has begun to think about it. Just because we don't have an arc about that yet doesn't mean it isn't being addressed, either internally as her behavior changes, or in a larger arc if she decides to start a new chapter in her life. There are too many other interesting and complicated issues right now than to start something like that, unless Winslow AND Hanners combine together to commit to something that may help other AI's out, such as investing in Union Robotics, or something similar.

And I don't believe Winslow get's a get-out-of-jail free card here. He's naive yes, but he's still had autonomy. Nothing has been there to stop him from knowing everything that Momo has learned about AI history, and how important that is which I think is one of the more important elements of May's resentment. I'm firmly in the belief that it has nothing to do with how expensive the chassis is, so much as how Winslow casually treats the situation.

[Is it cold in here?]

Chipnoir beat me to the point. Hannelore is already explicitly confronting the issue of what she should do with her unearned advantages. She may even be running ahead of herself -- as I understand the feedback she got from her friends, it might have been paraphrased as "Hon, you're still in 'put on your own oxygen mask first' territory and will be for a while".

I really look forward to a heart to heart talk between Bubbles and Winslow. There are questions about both of them that have been open questions for a long time. We may get some partial answers. In particular we may find out if Bubbles had a civilian life between leaving the crèche and enlisting.

Oh #@! I hope he doesn't decide to join the military. Though I could be completely wrong.