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10 - Best character in the strip to date!

1 (1.1%)

9 - Not perfect but is someone doing interesting, useful and funny things

1 (1.1%)

8 - They're surprisingly good/funny/interesting

5 (5.6%)

7 - There's potential there for doing interesting/useful/funny things in the future

27 (30%)

6 - Ho-hum; Jeph needs to try harder if he wants me to be interested in them

7 (7.8%)

5 - Indifferent; don't care what happens with them

9 (10%)

4 - I really don't get what Jeph sees in them

15 (16.7%)

3 - I tend to skip over everything they say and do to focus on other characters

2 (2.2%)

2 - I actually get annoyed when they're in panel

9 (10%)

1 - You'd be happier if they're never shown again

14 (15.6%)

Total Members Voted: 82

[Gyrre]

On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.

As noted before, I've used "they" in its various forms for a neuter third person singular pronoun in writing since about 1988, but I've never had my nose rubbed in just how damn confusing it is until this story arc.  I realize now that there's a reason speakers and listeners wanted singulars and plurals to begin with.

I haven't settle on a preference for one of the proposed alternatives, but I'll get there. 

But it won't be "mim."  Too much Disney baggage there.

Futurama writers proposed 'shkle' and 'shkler' in Beast With a Billion Backs, but that's a bit difficult to say. How about nominative 'seh' and possesive 'mir' (sort of rhyming with 'her')?

EDIT: forgot to onclude the nominative.

[Perfectly Reasonable]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)

[Smallest]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)

"They do." You use the normal conjugation for 'they.'

[Smallest]

I'm just going to add onto all the notes re: language here.

Ugh, right? I guess we should just be glad they didn't include the word "it". Although I get the feeling they would have if they thought it wouldn't result in an immediate ban. >.>

[I think/hope I cut this quote down correctly and left the right attribution. -S]

Using the above quote as an example, people use singular 'they' all the time without confusing anyone. And it doesn't just go back to the 80s as OldGoat mentions; according to "Families in Transition," from Central Toronto Youth Services,* it ('they') has been in use as a gender neutral pronoun for at least 600 years.

I get that this use of 'they' is new to a lot of people here, but 'they' is being used in a completely valid way, both with regards to modern gender terminology and historical use. I understand slipping up (I did in my first post in this thread, but caught it really quick), but there's no reason to keep treating it as weird and difficult.

*normally I'd find a more specific note on the usage but I literally had this next to me
**this isn't directed at any one person, I just reread this thread and winced too many times to not say something

[TheEvilDog]

I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)

See, denying Tilly pronouns would be almost as bad as using the wrong ones. They have asked that characters in the comic to use They/Them. We should endeavour to do the same. Yes, it might be awkward and difficult changing over, but it is still the right thing to do.

[War Sparrow]

Tilly does not skip leg day. I wonder what Dad does.
Plot Twist: Dad was a Beatrice pool boy in years past. Tilly is her illegitimate child, and Hannelore's half sibling. Unwilling to acknowledge the child, Beatrice still feels a family duty and gives them a job. If Hannelore doesn't pan out, she will fully acknowledge Tilly and make them the Chatham heiress.

Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.
(No, you're procrastinating on homework!)

[Tova]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

It's a bit awkward for all many of us, but if we persevere with it, we'll get used to it. This isn't widely accepted yet, and so the rules are still in flux.

"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

Try, for example:

"Tilly has no idea what they're supposed to do in the situation that they've found themself in."

Not sure if people are going to like "themself" as opposed to "themselves," but it's worth trying such things to see if the become comfortable through repeated exposure.

I'm sure there was a time when use of the pronoun "you" in the singular case (in place of "thou") was weird for some people as well. But we don't think twice about it now. I suppose that this will be the same, eventually.

[Penquin47]

For NaNo last year, I wrote a main character with they/them pronouns.  I found "themself" to work just fine for them, and aside from the occasional slip of using her instead of them, I got used to it quickly.  What was a lot harder?  Coming up with gender-neutral terms for things like aunt/uncle, niece/nephew, etc where English doesn't have a good gender-neutral term already (like sibling instead of brother/sister).

Spellcheck did *not* like themself, but spellcheck can get over itself.

[Gyrre]

Great. Jeph found a hook. Now I want to know who Tilly's dad is.

[ANeM]

On a separate note, I found today's comic quite confusing grammatically. The they/them pronoun usage is going to take some getting used to.

I think grammatically it would have worked better to have Hanner's say "Tilly" in panel 2, but I think there was a conscious effort by Jeph to show both Hanners and Winslow using the proper pronouns.

--------

As for today's comic (3628) I can see some possible bonding between Hannelore and Tilly over their overbearing business focused parents.

[chaospersonified]

Umm, wait, so Tilly’s father is pressuring her to gather corporate intelligence from Hanners. This suggests that Tilly is, like Hanners, the heir to a corporate mastermind whose ethics may be questionable. At the very least, I predict bonding between Hanners and Tilly on this account. Potentially, Beatrice realizes what’s happening and respects Brontdyn so much for his brash attempt that a future merger happens, potentially with a fun dynamic between Beatrice’s evil plotting and Brontdyn’s attempt to turn her towards truly legitimate business dealings.

I am reading way too much into this, I expect, but it’s fun.

[TheEvilDog]

I think its more that Tilly's dad is just doing some dad-humour rather than actual corporate espionage.

Like "Oh hey, you're working at the bank? Don't suppose you could slip a couple of hundred into my account? Haha" or "New job working on the stock exchange? Hey maybe you could get me some insider information."

[Tova]

Edit:  This is a response to a now-deleted comment. So feel free to skip.

I put it to you that it is perfectly possible to produce clear writing without having to resort to referring to someone using gendered pronouns against that person's express wishes. Particularly in your case, as you clearly have a strong grasp of English grammar. I suggest that you do consider this carefully.

[TheEvilDog]

I voted #6, but I should have voted #7 or #5...or even #1. I don't want Jeph to try harder with Tilly. Once it turned into Tilly standing on her their one's her own hands to find something to do, I figured this concept was burned out. Just send Tilly back to wherever people like that wait for jobs.

Why do you go through all the pronouns and decide on the wrong one? Do you also decidedly use wrong pronouns in real life as a statement?

<snip>

I hope to god you never talk to real people face to face. Because all I have read from you is some of the most condescending claptrap it has ever been my misfortune to read on this forum.

I really don’t care how you justify yourself, the fact is that it’s not for you to decide how someone should be presented, be it text or speech, be they fictional or real. When someone says that they would like you to use certain pronouns when talking to them or about them, have the common decency to respect their wishes. That’s all it is, common decency, a trait that has been decidingly lacking from certain corners of the forum the last couple of weeks. So it’s an adjustment, get over it and realize that languages are not set in stone but are instead constantly evolving, as are societal norms.

[foolsguinea]

I put it to you that it is perfectly possible to produce clear writing without having to resort to referring to someone using gendered pronouns against that person's express wishes. Particularly in your case, as you clearly have a strong grasp of English grammar. I suggest that you do consider this carefully.

Yeah, I deleted my explanation, because I knew it would just be interpreted as a right-wing rant.

Look, you have the ability to ask that you be referred to by whatever pronouns you want, and literally everyone in the world has the ability to say, 'Yeah, no, I'm not doing that.' You can call these abilities 'rights,' if you like.

I really came on the forum today to make a completely different joke, and now I don't care anymore.
_

Edit: You know what? I'm sorry if I'm being a butt.

I was never nuts about neologisms for non-binary pronouns, which have yet to be standardized. And singular 'they' sounded like a workable solution for some people. I have recently come to realize that singular 'they' is not as elegant a solution as it sounded. It is really confusing in writing, and personally I'm giving up on it. Time to look into 'ze' pronouns I guess.

[Tova]

Did my comment suggest that I had interpreted yours as a right wing rant? That's surprising coming from an advocate of clear writing, because that was far from my mind. I thought my post was really quite clear.

I'll be clearer still, then. Speak clearly. Be nice. These are compatible requests.

[Is it cold in here?]

Global Moderator Comment

Getting concerned about the change in tone the last few days.

[Timemaster]

Yay, more Tilly. 
I was a little afraid that Jeph would skip to another character and deny us the events of day two. (Or spare, as many people here would surely say.)
I think their legs are a little bit thicker than in the last strips. Maybe water after a long day mostly spent standing? Her pants must be really tight then. Getting your legs up on the bed is the right thing to do here, Tilly.
And they phone with their dad. I love that. I'm a single-raising dad, maybe theirs is too. And that stupid dad-joke could have been by me, too.

I would love to have a PA like Tilly in my life.
Well, at least for a few days.
And if I don't have to pay for them.
And if they don't mess up my life too much.
And don't trample on my nerves.
And of those of my daghter.
And don't follow me to my work and mess around there, too.

Well, ok. Maybe no Tilly in my life is a better idea.
But still I like this character a lot. They taught me about new personal pronouns in english and pushed Hanners a bit out of her nutshell-ish comfort zone. I' constantly pushed out of mine in real life, so I see nothing bad in this.

Jeph has invested so much time and efford in Tilly, I really think theiy're here to stay. Which is very good IMO. The comic has been stumbling around for some time and had no real focus that interested me. The whole story of Brun didn't grab me at all and Winslows new body was nice, but that's all. Nice. I must admit, that I've lost much of my interest in QC (and this forum) lately.
But here is a new character with distinctive traits and a challenging personality. And now I'm hooked again. Tilly does not only mess up Hanners life, they also mess up this forum here. I must say, that I haven't read such a controversial discussion here for some time.

And we all need a litte controversy, don't we?
It brings up the best and worst in people.   

Timemaster

[Shjade]

For a moment I thought Tilly might be related to a Beatrice-competitor, that Beatrice knew this, and got them out of the way of any potentially compromising information via sending them to Hannelore, who is distant from the company and therefore "safe."

Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.

[Tova]

Dad joke in panel three. 

[BenRG]

Okay, so I am more than a little interested on who 'daddy' is for Tilly. I have previously thought that Tilly might be an example of a Dilbert Principle promotion: Sending an incompetent employee to a position where they will cause the least damage because firing them outright would be too much fuss and bother. This strip suggests that it might be the case but due to the fact Tilly has problematic relations rather than just their lack of most obvious job skills in the PA field.

'Daddy' might be a competitor but he is also more likely an executive on ECI's board (I have also suggested this too). 'Corporate espionage' can also be internal as most large corporations have fratricidal internal politics worthy of a medieval royal court. There are factions, plots, counter-plots and attempts to suborn power to form what is effectively an independent personal empire within the organisation. Maybe he's hoping that Tilly can find some dirt that can weaken Beatrice's position and increase his own power in the company. However, I find it unlikely that Hannelore has any 'dirt' on Beatrice that isn't publicly-known anyway. I get the impression that the two have never spent enough time together to really get to know each other.

[Cornelius]

For a moment I thought Tilly might be related to a Beatrice-competitor, that Beatrice knew this, and got them out of the way of any potentially compromising information via sending them to Hannelore, who is distant from the company and therefore "safe."

Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.

I wouldn't say Hannelore is necessarily safe. After all, she has audited the company's entire financial record. A competitor might find useful information in there. Not to mention that it would be a bad idea to have your potential heir influenced by the competition too much, especially if you're already concerned that they haven't got what it takes to take over.

I think it's nice to see how Tilly reacts to the events of the day. I like the hesitation in panel two, as it's very recognisable.

As to the pronoun concerns, I'd like to invite everyone with an opinion on the issue, to come and join us in Discuss.

[OldGoat]

Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.

Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to.  Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network.  Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.

[QuestionableIntentions]

Corporate espionage! There it is!

[Zog]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

It's a bit awkward for all many of us, but if we persevere with it, we'll get used to it. This isn't widely accepted yet, and so the rules are still in flux.

"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

Try, for example:

"Tilly has no idea what they're supposed to do in the situation that they've found themself in."

Not sure if people are going to like "themself" as opposed to "themselves," but it's worth trying such things to see if the become comfortable through repeated exposure.

I'm sure there was a time when use of the pronoun "you" in the singular case (in place of "thou") was weird for some people as well. But we don't think twice about it now. I suppose that this will be the same, eventually.

My first exposures to this usage were in the hypothetical/unknown case' "What if someone does not like it" 'Well they will get used to it". If you look at it this way (while composing a sentence) it becomes much easier (for me anyway) to see how to use these pronouns in this way.

[JimC]

Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.

Its interesting, and maybe chilling to note the power of groupthink and isolated groups here. Here are two bodies of people, probably overlapping, and both of whom probably have fairly similar views on a lot of subjects, else they wouldn't enjoy the comic. But on a subject of no real importance at all - the behaviour of a fictional character whose personality is to date only outlined in the thinnest of ways - we have disparate views, apparently vehemently held, which seem to be tending to opposite extremes.

In many ways its a mirror of events in the wider world, and of course art should hold up a mirror to the wider world.

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

[Case]

Well, now I'm intrigued!

Umm, wait, so Tilly’s father is pressuring her to gather corporate intelligence from Hanners. This suggests that Tilly is, like Hanners, the heir to a corporate mastermind whose ethics may be questionable. At the very least, I predict bonding between Hanners and Tilly on this account. Potentially, Beatrice realizes what’s happening and respects Brontdyn so much for his brash attempt that a future merger happens, potentially with a fun dynamic between Beatrice’s evil plotting and Brontdyn’s attempt to turn her towards truly legitimate business dealings.

I am reading way too much into this, I expect, but it’s fun.

Nope, that's a) exactly my headcan(n)on and b) the purpose of this subforum. 

"Tilly has no idea what they're supposed to do in the situation that they've found themself in."

Not sure if people are going to like "themself" as opposed to "themselves," but it's worth trying such things to see if the become comfortable through repeated exposure.

Foreign heathen here: "themself" -> singular, "themselves" - plural?

My brain keeps insisting they're interchangeable ... 

[KevxD]

I'll admit my interest in Tilly has increased significantly after today's comic, there's potential in this arc yet.

[flondrix]

Umm, wait, so Tilly’s father is pressuring her to gather corporate intelligence from Hanners. This suggests that Tilly is, like Hanners, the heir to a corporate mastermind whose ethics may be questionable.

Far more likely that he is just a corporate lackey grasping for something, anything, that might help him get ahead in his dead-end job.

[flondrix]

Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.

Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to.  Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network.  Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.

Hah!  By making that agent a personal assistant to Hannelore, she has raised the oppositions hopes of gleaning useful information while in reality delivering nothing but confusion.  She could always give Hanners a call whenever she wanted Tilly to overhear some bit of misinformation.

Not that that is what I think is happening.

[Case]

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

Funny, my (Boomer) teachers used to tell us we were creepily disengaged and unsettlingly dispassionate about politics and society and all that stuff. Which usually elicited the "Unsettling Gen-Xer grin" or the "Whatever ..."



Pendulum swinging back, I s'pose. 

[JoeCovenant]

So, more Tilly...

And a solo strip, even...

yay.

(sigh)

[Theinternetsurvivor]

I know someone might hate me for this, but Tilly is extra thicc

[BenRG]

Let's put this in a different way then: Patron comments are not automatically a representative subset of the fandom.

Well, I mean, yes. Quite true.

The whole reason I brought up Patreon in the first place was not to claim that they somehow should be considered to be a true representation of how QC readers were responding. It was simply to point out that these forums are not a representative subset of the fandom. For the same reason that Patreon is not - very simply, they are both self-selecting samples. As I'm sure you're aware, self-selection will always introduce a bias.

Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.

[pwhodges]

Forum-minded folk are typically aware that there are other forums, and so can decide for themselves whether they prefer the atmosphere of this one or, say, reddit.  Even without that, they can see the forum and decide whether to join or not - so, self selection with a vengeance.

[Technoir]

I dropped a #2 on the Tilly poll.   Super annoying and manipulative. 

Demonstrating enthusiasm and competence didn't work, so they pulled the "I'm a failure! WAAAAAH!" pathetic/sobstory trick on Hannelore.

 Don't like them.

[JimC]

so, self selection with a vengeance.

Not only that, but people who post actively on any given forum are a self selecting potentially unrepresentative subset of those who read it. How many people would say that the results of the poll above are a reasonable reflection of the general thread of posts about the character? Its something I noticed wth considerable amusement on another forum on an utterly different topic recently. A particularly vocal poster with a small coterie of followers posted a poll about a topic that he was frequently vehement about (and about which most posts were supportive from his coterie) - and the other self selecting subset of people who vote in forum polls massively disagreed with him!

[Case]

so, self selection with a vengeance.

Not only that, but people who post actively on any given forum are a self selecting potentially unrepresentative subset of those who read it. How many people would say that the results of the poll above are a reasonable reflection of the general thread of posts about the character? Its something I noticed wth considerable amusement on another forum on an utterly different topic recently. A particularly vocal poster with a small coterie of followers posted a poll about a topic that he was frequently vehement about (and about which most posts were supportive from his coterie) - and the other self selecting subset of people who vote in forum polls massively disagreed with him!

IIRC there's a study that estimates the ratio of active posters to lurkers on any given forum to be roughly 1/100.

I dropped a #2 on the Tilly poll.   Super annoying and manipulative. 

Demonstrating enthusiasm and competence didn't work, so they pulled the "I'm a failure! WAAAAAH!" pathetic/sobstory trick on Hannelore.

 Don't like them.

[dutchrvl]

Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

This extreme polarization on pretty much any topic is nowhere happening as badly as in the US though, undoubtedly a side effect of the fact that there are really only 2 parties (which I have always found a dubious system as a native Dutchman).
To be honest, US society is already in a (not so) civil war, and so far nobody is "winning" (maybe extreme conservative Christians and big corporations?) and everybody is losing.

Edit: edited as I realized I didn't even believe it myself to be true...

[dutchrvl]

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

Funny, my (Boomer) teachers used to tell us we were creepily disengaged and unsettlingly dispassionate about politics and society and all that stuff. Which usually elicited the "Unsettling Gen-Xer grin" or the "Whatever ..."

Pendulum swinging back, I s'pose. 

However, being passionate and engaged is not the same as being polarizing and dismissive of any and all arguments the opposite party makes.

[Case]

Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

This extreme polarization on pretty much any topic is nowhere happening as badly as in the US though, undoubtedly a side effect of the fact that there are really only 2 parties (which I have always found a dubious system as a native Dutchman).

That is also my impression, but my judgement is similarly burdened (and should therefore be taken with a grain truckload of salt) by also being a continental European ...

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

Funny, my (Boomer) teachers used to tell us we were creepily disengaged and unsettlingly dispassionate about politics and society and all that stuff. Which usually elicited the "Unsettling Gen-Xer grin" or the "Whatever ..."

Pendulum swinging back, I s'pose. 

However, being passionate and engaged is not the same as being polarizing and dismissive of any and all arguments the opposite party makes.

True dat. Then again, when in human history has the number of "passionate and engaged" people not been eclipsed by the number of enthusiastic hangers-on (or opponents) who confuse "passion & engagement" with being "polarizing and dismissive"?

[pwhodges]

Global Moderator Comment

Hey guys, there's a reason we have a separate area called Discuss!, so let's keep away from non-QC-related politics here.

[WoaLG]

So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?

[dutchrvl]

Got it, I will refrain from non-QC stuff in this thread.

OT: since JJ has indicated (perhaps seriously?) he is playing the long game with Tilly and that he has written several upcoming weeks of comics already, I am wondering whether this whole month might be one long arc revolving around Tilly. Whether that eventually results in them becoming a main part of the cast or whether they will eventually disappear again, that remains to be seen...

[Thrudd]

I'll admit my interest in Tilly has increased significantly after today's comic, there's potential in this arc yet.

As has mine - it has taken a quantum leap to the positive.

(click to show/hide)

Okay, it couldn't get worse when you are starting from zero to begin with. 

Seeing that JJ stated that there will be way more of Tilly for the next while gave me a sad sinking feeling deep down inside.
It may have something to do with having to deal with a similar personality type on a semi-regular basis in real life with the associated massive energy drain.
I may just have to hold off and read a small block at a time until things get less Tilly as we know them as of now. 

[OldGoat]

So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?

Hmmm....some kind of flakes.

Although he is enough of a he-man to down an entire bowl of Post Grape Nuts.

[gopher]

So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?

Shredded Wheat, 3 at a time.

[BenRG]

So... What kind of cereal do you think Steve likes most?

This has actually been answered in canon. Steve saved a little promotional robot from a box of cereal and I think that this is his favourite brand (mostly because he received an unspecified reward from the AI's employer).

[pwhodges]

Got it, I will refrain from non-QC stuff in this thread.

No need to go that far; one of the delights of this forum is how easily interesting unrelated conversations can spring from the comic.  It's just that we like to keep the contentious subjects like politics and religion in their own playpen over there ->

[traroth]

I'm missing more and more my favorite characters. Bubbles, Faye, Sam, Emily, Momo. Hopefully none of them will disappear forever like Sven, Wil or PT410X...

At least, the current arc involves Hannelore and Winslow. I kind of like Winslow since he changed chassis. I really would like to know how he's doing in his new counselor role. Or maybe he wants a "spray" on his new body?