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10 - Best character in the strip to date!

1 (1.1%)

9 - Not perfect but is someone doing interesting, useful and funny things

1 (1.1%)

8 - They're surprisingly good/funny/interesting

5 (5.6%)

7 - There's potential there for doing interesting/useful/funny things in the future

27 (30%)

6 - Ho-hum; Jeph needs to try harder if he wants me to be interested in them

7 (7.8%)

5 - Indifferent; don't care what happens with them

9 (10%)

4 - I really don't get what Jeph sees in them

15 (16.7%)

3 - I tend to skip over everything they say and do to focus on other characters

2 (2.2%)

2 - I actually get annoyed when they're in panel

9 (10%)

1 - You'd be happier if they're never shown again

14 (15.6%)

Total Members Voted: 82

[TheBiscuit]

I will admit that I definitely wasn't expecting anything like this to happen with regards to Tilly. It does seem to open up some interesting possibilities. We don't yet know anything about their father, but presumably he might have been as much (if not more) of an influence on Tilly's personality as was Mrs. Ellicott-Chatham. It is now a somewhat interesting question to ask why they were given this particular role. Assistant to the heir of the company is a responsibility associated with a lot of trust,  even if that heir is somewhat wayward, in her mother's eyes...

[flondrix]

Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.

I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once.  This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment.  And of course have the time to waste. 

I realizing this is changing, but I suspect it is still true that "normal" people are too busy working, socializing in meatspace, changing diapers, having sex, or whatever it is that normal people do, to devote much time to arguing about societal issues in the comments on a webcomic.

[Cornelius]

I will admit that I definitely wasn't expecting anything like this to happen with regards to Tilly. It does seem to open up some interesting possibilities. We don't yet know anything about their father, but presumably he might have been as much (if not more) of an influence on Tilly's personality as was Mrs. Ellicott-Chatham. It is now a somewhat interesting question to ask why they were given this particular role. Assistant to the heir of the company is a responsibility associated with a lot of trust,  even if that heir is somewhat wayward, in her mother's eyes...

I'd say that, if the heir is even the least bit wayward, it's a fortiori a position of trust. But that's not quite compatible, I think, with Beatrice misremembering their name. It might be that she really does see a PA as just an accessory function, and So didn't mind much who Taffy, or something, was, as long as they have the right skill set.

For Tilly, however, it's a different picture. I think their vision of the function mast be a lot closer to ours, and that it's a momentous opportunity to them. I think that they're really a very junior position in the company, and that the perceived trust of the position might inform their eagerness, in part.

@flondrox: While I don't disagree with what you're saying, that was really the feel good comment I needed to round put my day.

[flondrix]

To be honest, US society is already in a (not so) civil war, and so far nobody is "winning" (maybe extreme conservative Christians and big corporations?) and everybody is losing.

I used to work for a guy who was also an SF writer.  Years ago he said something similar, that the extreme polarization is not benefiting either side of the culture war, so I asked him: "Thinking as an SF writer, who is benefiting from it?"

No matter who wins, we lose.

[flondrix]

I'm missing more and more my favorite characters. Bubbles, Faye, Sam, Emily, Momo. Hopefully none of them will disappear forever like Sven, Wil or PT410X...

At least, the current arc involves Hannelore and Winslow. I kind of like Winslow since he changed chassis. I really would like to know how he's doing in his new counselor role. Or maybe he wants a "spray" on his new body?

You know, if they wanted to, Anthro-PCs could go for full-out airbrushed artwork like those sword & sorcery tableaus you see on vans.  And many of them do not seem to be encumbered by good taste.

[ToodleLew]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

I am tempted to deny Tilly pronouns altogether. Just 'Tilly' whenever a pronoun might appear in normal English.
"Tilly has no idea what Tilly is supposed to do in the situation that Tilly has found Tilly in."

I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.^[1]

"Tilly has no idea what one is supposed to do in the situation that one has found oneself in."

As for Tilly themself, I fail to see how they contribute anything meaningful to the strip, yet. I would much rather see something of Marten for a while.

[Case]

Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.

I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once.  This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment.  And of course have the time to waste. 

Uhmmmh - I googled "questionable content, forum" for the link. Does that count? 

Hey, guys? What's with the grim faces and the pitchforks? Guys? Heeeeeyyy?

I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.^[1]

Yeah, it takes a bit getting used to. Otoh, my native language uses the exact same word for the female third person singular, the second third person plural and the formal direct address, and I never noticed until someone pointed it out recently.

[TheBiscuit]

I find trying to discuss a singular character with plural pronouns to be incredibly awkward. Instead of 'she does' is it supposed to be 'they does'? Or is it 'they do'? (As if Tilly has suddenly grown a second head.)

I had the same thought while writing my last post. I had to use 'they were' instead of 's/he was' , but it only made me pause for a second. The polite option is to use for a person those pronouns that for which they have stated a preference. Is it something to which a lot of us may be unaccustomed, but I don't find it so terrible. Merely unfamiliar.

[flondrix]

Otoh, my native language uses the exact same word for the female third person singular, the second person plural and the informal direct address, and I never noticed until someone pointed it out recently.

Of course not.  Grammar is something that other languages have.

[dutchrvl]

Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.

I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once.  This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment.  And of course have the time to waste. 

I realizing this is changing, but I suspect it is still true that "normal" people are too busy working, socializing in meatspace, changing diapers, having sex, or whatever it is that normal people do, to devote much time to arguing about societal issues in the comments on a webcomic.

I usually assume other people, like me, are commenting during worktime...

[TinPenguin]

I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.^[1]

So because using a supposedly plural pronoun feels odd, you're using an indefinite pronoun instead? How does that make any more sense?

[A Duck]

Daamn, I feel like Jeph spend 90% of the total drawing time for today making Tilly's legs.

Is it me or he's been improving in terms of anatomy recently? Likely because of Bubbles.

I now feel bad for Tilly. I hope they can have a place after this Hannelore PA thing inevitably fails.

[ToodleLew]

I hear dissonance when trying to use plural or collective pronouns for singular entities. Rather than deny Tilly pronouns, mentally, I substitute the indefinite pronoun "one" for Tilly's preferred they/them.^[1]

So because using a supposedly plural pronoun feels odd, you're using an indefinite pronoun instead? How does that make any more sense?

I didn't say that it had to make sense to you. But, as a "gender neutral" pronoun that has separate singular and plural forms, it makes more sense to me  then the (usually) plural "they/them".

[Timemaster]

Daamn, I feel like Jeph spend 90% of the total drawing time for today making Tilly's legs.

Is it me or he's been improving in terms of anatomy recently? Likely because of Bubbles.

I noticed that, too. Tilly displays a very realistic and organic posture here. I like that. Todays strip is very detailled and must have been a lot of work.
And as I have mentioned before, Tilly seems to have some water deposition in their legs. At least Jeph seems to me do have dawn them exactly that way. I think this is intentional and shows how much thought he has put in this new character.
And one thing more: I admire Jephs skill in drawing hands and fingers. Just look at the way Tilly is holding their phone. But the thing he hasn't mastered yet are feet. And shoes, just look at Tillys handstand a few days back. Nothing really important, I know. But it amuses me every time I see bare feet in the strip. 

By the way, do you like my new signature? 

TM

[Welu]

I had the same thought while writing my last post. I had to use 'they were' instead of 's/he was' , but it only made me pause for a second. The polite option is to use for a person those pronouns that for which they have stated a preference. Is it something to which a lot of us may be unaccustomed, but I don't find it so terrible. Merely unfamiliar.

This is a good attitude.

As a they, which I feel the need to say again so people are reminded we're real people and not just a grammar connundrum to be solved, I can appreciate it is new to some and takes a bit of getting used to at first. Especially for people where English is not a first language for them.

However trying and messing up is a lot more appreciated than refusing outright, or saying we should come up with something "better". That incidentally ignores that trans and nonbinary people have already been having these discussions a long time. It's worth remembering that just because something is new to you does not mean that it is new.

This forum aims to be an inclusive space. That means we aim to be a little bit more compassionate and do a little more to make people feel welcome.

Someone telling you their pronouns is extending a level of vulnerability and trust. Turning around and saying you won't because you think you know better for whatever reason is patronising and can be so hurtful.

Moderator Comment

In this space, they is a valid pronoun. As it should be everywhere but the rest of the world is still getting there. Don't tell people how to identify. Respect people's (and the characters') wishes and use the pronoun they tell you to use for them. It is that simple.

[TV4Fun]

Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.

Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?

[Perfectly Reasonable]

One would get tired of 'Tilly' very quickly.
..... (um, what?)

I confess to being disingenuously disruptive.  (Any mod whose suspicions were aroused has earned a pat on the back.)
I think I have convinced myself that Tilly rates a '1'.  (Although I wish we had seen "Tilly's Adventures in the Spider Zone". I might be inspired to commit fanfic.)

[TheBiscuit]

Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips.

I don't really know if you were serious, but I think that a decent number of the text comments below the strip are not to be taken seriously.

[snufflebottoms]

Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.

Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?

well spookybot seems okay.

[TV4Fun]

Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.

Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?

well spookybot seems okay.

I just feel like in his presence, I would die of boredom, because he would solve every problem I had before it had a chance to get interesting.

[Thrudd]

Jeph told us Tilly's dad's name. I think that means we will meet him within the next 3 strips. Then we will meet his girlfriend. Then we will meet her parrot, then there will be a 53 strip arc where we visit the pet shop where she got the parrot and meet 4 or 5 pet shop employees and be introduced to all their personal dramas. Then a Roomba will bring Steve some cereal while Pintsize works on installing a flatulence generator, which will bring him back to Faye and Bubbles' shop which has resolved all of its financial difficulties offscreen and is now a booming, popular business. We will spend 2 strips there and then follow one of the pet shop employees as he spends the next 232 strips trying to work up the nerve to ask out the demisexual hijra from the flower shop across the street which leads into a climactic final battle between Pizza girl and the orbiting pizza satellite.

Also, sub-poll, if you were given the choice of spending the rest of your life with only Spookybot or Tilly for companionship, would you prefer cyanide tablets or hanging yourself?

well spookybot seems okay.

I just feel like in his presence, I would die of boredom, because he would solve every problem I had before it had a chance to get interesting.

You lack imagination and a twisted sense of humor.
Get them to help write fan-fics or in my case adventure modules for DnD - Horror by Gaslight to be more exact.
They could help crunch the numbers, verify the historical and folklore accuracy and set the challenge ratings appropriate to the players involved.   

[Penquin47]

If Tilly has to consult a book about how to be a PA, remind me how they're supposed to be so good at their job?

[TheEvilDog]

Because even PAs have to begin somewhere. They still have plenty to learn about their bosses and need to realise where they are working and the needs and requirements for that environment.

[jwhouk]

At least it wasn't a "Personal Assistants for Dummies" book...

[Shjade]

Then I remembered if Beatrice thought there were a potential spy in her company she'd just shoot them into the sun.

Only after she'd concluded that there was no other use she could put the person to.  Shooting an opponent's agent into the sun, or even just shooting them, telegraphs that you've discovered their network.  Beatrice would want to keep them guessing.

For a normal person, yes, it might indicate you've discovered their network.

For Beatrice, it could mean anything from "spy network discovered" to "Tilly got her the wrong kind of coffee one morning." So it's not really much of an indicator.

[SmilingCat]

Okay, Tilly, that outfit is pretty adorably over the top. I applaud.

[BenRG]

Oh, ouch! This particular explosion is actually quite painful to see.

I know why Jeph's doing this. He's emphasising that Tilly 'doesn't understand real life' and it does the job but it's still painful to see that attempt to dress casual from someone whom I bet doesn't normally do 'casual' at all in any way.

Meanwhile, anyone else notice that Tilly is working from a guidebook? As it's grey and not yellow, it isn't a 'For Dummies' book but obviously it has much the same basic concept. I find myself wondering if Tilly, if they were to read one of Scott Adams' satirical business self-help books, would assume it is for real! The point I'm making is that the 'how to...' book makes it all the more likely that this is some bizarre prank on Beatrice's part.

[Cornelius]

I thought that this might be a notebook. Even Truly is bound to need portable memory sometime.

[traroth]

Bottom line: don't be so quick to airily dismiss the opinions of an entire community. Especially the community whose existence helps to ensure that you can continue to read and discuss the very comic we're all enjoying.

Its interesting, and maybe chilling to note the power of groupthink and isolated groups here. Here are two bodies of people, probably overlapping, and both of whom probably have fairly similar views on a lot of subjects, else they wouldn't enjoy the comic. But on a subject of no real importance at all - the behaviour of a fictional character whose personality is to date only outlined in the thinnest of ways - we have disparate views, apparently vehemently held, which seem to be tending to opposite extremes.

In many ways its a mirror of events in the wider world, and of course art should hold up a mirror to the wider world.

But I find it disturbing how recent society polarises itself so readily and so vehemently on so many topics, to the detriment of its own good, and this is such a good mirror of that.

Don't forget there are also a significant part of this forum's reader who don't give a damn about those hasty overinterpretations based on very, very meager information. I'm sometimes stunned how far fetched ideas I read here, and it's actually funny, in a twisted way. But I wouldn't start or take part in a flame war over that in any case. "Relax, it's just a comic" is a sentence of great wisdom.

[traroth]

Winslow: "I'm jealous. Sharpie just wipes right of me".

So the question of the "spray" I mentioned previously seems to be settled...

[BenRG]

So, anyway, I've been thinking on 'what is Tilly's role' and I think that today's strip actually answers that question.

Tilly's attempt at 'casual clothing' today is so strange and ill-fitting in so many ways that I'm suspecting that Jeph created her to be an 'Alien Amongst Us', someone whose social instincts and prior normal cultural background is so different from that of the regular cast that we can learn more about them by seeing them through their puzzled eyes.

Of course, there will also be regular cheap jokes about Tilly's inability to 'fit in' or even come close to it.

[JoeCovenant]

Yay, more Tilly. 
...

You are Jeph Jaques, and I claim my $5 !

[JoeCovenant]

Can you give me a reason why you think that this forum is a 'self-selecting' group that introduces bias? Unlike Patreon, there does not seem to be any obvious prerequisite criteria other than 'read QC once and noticed the link to the forums'.

I doubt there is anyone here who read QC once.  This forum consists of people who not only noticed the link to the forums, but felt compelled to click on it, read, weren't driven away by the nasty arguments, and felt compelled to comment.  And of course have the time to waste. 

I realizing this is changing, but I suspect it is still true that "normal" people are too busy working, socializing in meatspace, changing diapers, having sex, or whatever it is that normal people do, to devote much time to arguing about societal issues in the comments on a webcomic.

I usually assume other people, like me, are commenting during worktime...

Oh hell yeah.
You guys and gals and others should thank whatever gods there are that I only post here while at work.

Can you imagine the rambling I could do if I had TIME to draft posts the way I might actually want to!

[JoeCovenant]

So, anyway, I've been thinking on 'what is Tilly's role' and I think that today's strip actually answers that question.

Tilly's attempt at 'casual clothing' today is so strange and ill-fitting in so many ways that I'm suspecting that Jeph created her to be an 'Alien Amongst Us', someone whose social instincts and prior normal cultural background is so different from that of the regular cast that we can learn more about them by seeing them through their puzzled eyes.

Of course, there will also be regular cheap jokes about Tilly's inability to 'fit in' or even come close to it.

Everything you say above may be true, Ben.

Sadly, I don't think I care anymore.
The character has imprinted "annoying" all over... it would take an overwhelming Damascene moment for me to divert from that now.
The more I see of Tilly, the more my initial impression is bolstered.

And I JUST THIS SECOND realised why I am having such a problem...

The Faye/Bubbles arc has gone away because of this.
And the recent Faye / Bubbles arc (to me) was one of the SINGULARLY best pieces of writing I have seen in this strip.

If Tilly had cropped up before all that, I might not have had SUCH a vehement reaction to the introduction.
But I still doubt if I would ever have 'liked' them...

[Marco]

I will admit that I definitely wasn't expecting anything like this to happen with regards to Tilly. It does seem to open up some interesting possibilities. We don't yet know anything about their father, but presumably he might have been as much (if not more) of an influence on Tilly's personality as was Mrs. Ellicott-Chatham. It is now a somewhat interesting question to ask why they were given this particular role. Assistant to the heir of the company is a responsibility associated with a lot of trust,  even if that heir is somewhat wayward, in her mother's eyes...

I'd say that, if the heir is even the least bit wayward, it's a fortiori a position of trust. But that's not quite compatible, I think, with Beatrice misremembering their name. It might be that she really does see a PA as just an accessory function, and So didn't mind much who Taffy, or something, was, as long as they have the right skill set.

Looks like a PA is just a "tool" in Beatrice's vision. I don't think it's a coincidence that, when talking about "Taffy", she was riding Mechahorse (Cybersteed? Robostallion?) and demonstrating how to handle a malfunctioning "tool"...

[TinPenguin]

Tilly continues to reek of desperation, and it's not an attractive smell.

[Welu]

I find the funniest thing about Tilly's outfit is the combo of ripped sleeves and jeans, but the shirt is still tucked in. Like they still have to maintain a certain level of professionalism while trying to dress casually. This is my favourite strip of this arc yet.

[Marco]

Tilly continues to reek of desperation, and it's not an attractive smell.

I dunno, she looks very confident to me in the last pannel...

[JoeCovenant]

Tilly continues to reek of desperation, and it's not an attractive smell.

I dunno, she looks very confident to me in the last pannel...

Yeah, but personal confidence has no bearing on outward perception of desperation...

Probably a million examples, but the first one that jumps into my head is Gervais' "David Brent" in "The Office"

[Mr_Rose]

Y’allare confusing me: you keep using this word “casual” like that was her goal and she somehow failed.
The Guide said “appropriate to the work environment” and that outfit absolutely fits CoD’s, ah, unique style. Thus, total success.

[traroth]

Professionally, it's really a strange situation. Tilly is now going to help Hannelore at her work? I can't see how this could be working for Dora...

[TheEvilDog]

Y’allare confusing me: you keep using this word “casual” like that was her goal and she somehow failed.
The Guide said “appropriate to the work environment” and that outfit absolutely fits CoD’s, ah, unique style. Thus, total success.

Yeah, but Hanners works in a coffee shop, not as a painter and decorator, which is what Tilly looks like.

[Cornelius]

On the other hand, Hannelore has said explicitly that things explode on her. Seems reasonable to dress as a painter, then.

[ToodleLew]

At least, Tilly has some remarkable lettering skills. They seem to be left-handed (at least, in all the scenes that I checked, they hold or manipulate items with their left hand), so the lettering on their right shoulder makes sense. But, the lettering is so NEAT and PRECISE (even to the dot in the middle of the small 'o' of "or"). I don't know of anyone who can use their dominant hand to letter their opposite shoulder with such precision. But, then again, Tilly seems to bring a matter of precision to anything they do. They will make someone an excellent PA, even if it is not Hannelore.

[Schismatism]

I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again.  So the attempts didn't stick... perhaps the meme is too strong, and before long their family will also be calling them Taffy, and one day they'll look down at their photo ID and see "Taffy" written there instead of "Tilly".  And then they have a dream, where they're in a restaurant, and everybody says nothing but "Taffy, Taffy Taffy Taffy."

Anyway, I get where the character's idea came from, e.g. "Hannelore deals with someone who's even more awkward than she is," but I have to admit that Tilly seems like a really flat horn-in, like the guest star in a sitcom who suddenly everybody revolves around, and who eventually ends up taking over the whole show.

[pwhodges]

I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again.

No, that is Tilly accurately recalling an earlier conversation.

[ToodleLew]

I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again.  So the attempts didn't stick.

That panel appears to be a flash-back to strip Number 3613, where Hannelore comments on Tilly's attempt at picking her daily wardrobe. From the context, it appears that Tilly is recalling the events of the previous day, before preparing themself for their second day of work as Hannelore's PA.

[dutchrvl]

I see Hannelore called them "Taffy" again.  So the attempts didn't stick... perhaps the meme is too strong, and before long their family will also be calling them Taffy, and one day they'll look down at their photo ID and see "Taffy" written there instead of "Tilly".  And then they have a dream, where they're in a restaurant, and everybody says nothing but "Taffy, Taffy Taffy Taffy."

She hasn't though. The panel in which Hannelore calls her Taffy in the current comic is a flashback from earlier that Tilly is remembering.

[dutchrvl]

Okay, okay, after 3 reactions I am sure Schismatisms has realized this by now...

[traroth]

Do you mean it's... some kind of flash-back ?