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Comic Discussion => QUESTIONABLE CONTENT => Topic started by: BenRG on 31 May 2015, 09:10

Title: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 31 May 2015, 09:10
Most people would say Claire - Red hair and autumn leaves, after all. Me, I think that Faye fits the description more in her dour and often bitter personality. She is a nice example of the concept of autumn rather than its look.

As for the strip? Well, I wonder if Jeph plans to go back to some kind of running plot of if he's going to continue with one-off mini-arcs. I'm sure April will be grateful if he gives her some kind of concrete dating information! :laugh: As for me, there are three story threads that I'd like to see:
Well, that's my idea jar anyway. What does everyone think?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 31 May 2015, 10:17
Personally, I'd see Marigold more as a "autumn" person.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 31 May 2015, 11:14
Claire of those options because of the hair I'll agree.

But you done goofed with that poll and left out the true personification of fall. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1543)

Edit: Yay, she's in.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Near Lurker on 31 May 2015, 11:52
That link in this context makes me realize how much I want Claire to meet Witch Claire.

...screw it, I'll just say Witch Claire is the personification of autumn, because why not.

...why are we having this discussion in June?  Does Australia have a really late fall?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 31 May 2015, 11:55
No, QC has a really late fall. It's been summer for several years in Northampton, but autumn seems to be around the corner.

And winter is... well, you know.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 31 May 2015, 13:02
Not coming anytime soon!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 31 May 2015, 13:50
Not coming anytime soon!

Because when Winter comes, that's when Hannelore makes like GRR Martin.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 31 May 2015, 14:39
Not coming anytime soon!

Because when Winter comes, that's when Hannelore makes like GRR Martin.

She kills everyone we love in brutal fashions?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 31 May 2015, 14:40
She kills all her friends, kills them with a knife.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 31 May 2015, 14:48
Yay, beheadings!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Stoutfellow on 31 May 2015, 14:49
I'm confused. Why would Hannelore growl at Marten?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 31 May 2015, 14:53
George RR Martin stopped killing everyone though. Nowadays he just pretends to kill people every other chapter, usually Davos.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 31 May 2015, 15:34
She kills all her friends, kills them with a knife.

Dangit, Hanners, do not listen to DJ Phalliz!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: mustang6172 on 31 May 2015, 19:41
Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: emilygrrl on 31 May 2015, 19:56
Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?

yes, he did. Dora is Autumn.

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-MUCHA-PRINT&Category_Code=QC

...maybe it needs updating, with Claire being so prominent now?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 31 May 2015, 20:52
George RR Martin stopped killing everyone though. Nowadays he just pretends to kill people every other chapter, usually Davos.

(click to show/hide)

Thing about spoilers re:Game of Thrones, is that the books and the show are so utterly seperated at this point in certain respects that it's nearly two seperate creatures. There's nothing anyone could say about Jamie's role in Dorne, regardless od whether they're book readers. It doesn't even happen in the books, so a book reader has no prescience concerning his fate!

Far as I'm concerned, the Red Wedding cemented GRRM as the man who murders my fictional loves.

He has replaced Joss Whedon in such respects.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 31 May 2015, 20:59
But back to the original final question of the thread:

I want to see Faye getting back on her feet, with interludes of Veronica settling. Perhaps Veronica would try (and immediately be rebuffed, of course) suggesting Faye work possibilities? I mean, she was suggesting things to Marten, her son, in her own line of work, at one point, was she not? I'm not suggesting Jeph draw Faye doing soft-core porn, Faye would never, but Veronica might suggest.

It could give more background to V. Vance's character, which would be an interesting sidestep, looking at how Marten's mom got into her trade, through the lens of Faye's unemployment.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 31 May 2015, 21:05
Comic...

When I said I wanted to hear from Faye, this isn't...

Sigh...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: 94ssd on 31 May 2015, 21:08
Faye, what are you doing?

Faye, stop.

Please...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 31 May 2015, 21:13
George RR Martin stopped killing everyone though. Nowadays he just pretends to kill people every other chapter, usually Davos.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

Also...gods damn it, Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: RealityXcursion on 31 May 2015, 21:17
Nooooo Faye.

Scary how easy it is to justify giving in to an addiction  :-(
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 31 May 2015, 21:18
Oh, poor Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Wildroses on 31 May 2015, 21:25
Alas, addicts rarely succeed when they try to go completely cold turkey, so this was likely as well as realistic.

Hannelore has a history of anxiety and excessive guilt, so she might go to pieces when she hears Faye used dealing with her problems to justify a drinking binge. I hope she does in front of Faye so that Faye can fully realise WHAT A TERRIBLE HORRIBLE SELFISH UNBELIEVABLY STUPID AND IDIOTIC THING SHE HAS JUST DONE!

Thanks, I needed to get that off my chest. But yeah, I still think it would be a good thing as I believe Faye's best chance of avoiding becoming a rock bottom addict is by realising her drinking has a major impact on the people around her as well as herself. Maybe Marten will come in, see her, have hospital flashbacks and decide to scream at her. Marten screaming could have the same impact as Hannelore guilty as he's such a laid back, easy going person it takes a hell of a lot to make him completely lose his temper.

EDIT: Come to think of it, have we ever seen The Wrath Of Marten ever manifest itself in the strip? The closest I can think of is when he had the fight in which he broke up with Dora, and that was more disgust and annoyance than screaming anger.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 31 May 2015, 21:32
"Goddamnit, Faye", indeed. I... don't know if anyone's even going to find out immediately that she took a stroll off the wagon.

Also, no. We have never seen the Wrath of Marten. Frankly, I'm a bit wary of seeing it. Normally calm people can get frightening when they finally do get pissed off.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Undrneath on 31 May 2015, 21:42
Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?

yes, he did. Dora is Autumn.

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-MUCHA-PRINT&Category_Code=QC

...maybe it needs updating, with Claire being so prominent now?

First I want to say I envy Dale because of this poster. Second, damnit Faye!!!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: SubaruStephen on 31 May 2015, 22:00
Faye.... No. Bad Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 31 May 2015, 22:10
I... don't know if anyone's even going to find out immediately that she took a stroll off the wagon.

As an addict, it's not really up to Faye to decide how far she's taking this. She may not end in the hospital again, but she's not going to be able to keep Marten from knowing. Once she starts drinking again, she may or may not end up bottoming out; the drinks are in charge, not her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 31 May 2015, 22:42
Wrath of Marten showed up in the Vespavenger story line and with the kung fu monks.

I don't advocate it but there would be good symbolism if he were to hit Faye with a STOP sign.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: DrizztLink on 31 May 2015, 22:51
Hannelore has a history of anxiety and excessive guilt, so she might go to pieces when she hears Faye used dealing with her problems to justify a drinking binge. I hope she does in front of Faye so that Faye can fully realise WHAT A TERRIBLE HORRIBLE SELFISH UNBELIEVABLY STUPID AND IDIOTIC THING SHE HAS JUST DONE!

You'd be amazed at how little that could matter.

Speaking as an addict, when you're in the grasp of your addiction, you're practically a sociopath. People cease being people and become either assets or obstructions to your next drunk or high.

I don't think Faye is there, but expecting healthy emotions from an addict is a losing game.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 31 May 2015, 23:25
Every addict has setbacks. Either they backslide or they transfer the addictive behaviour to other things. The key is not to give up. The problem with Faye is that her self-esteem is so weak that giving up, maybe even self-destructively, is entirely in-character for her. Marten is likely going to come home to a serious mess.

"Goddamnit, Faye", indeed. I... don't know if anyone's even going to find out immediately that she took a stroll off the wagon.

Others' wrath will be nothing compared to her own self-loathing. You only need to consider her expression in panel 4 to realise that she's far from happy with this outcome.

Totally on a different subject: Jeph drew Hanners very pretty today.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Jun 2015, 00:01
have we ever seen The Wrath Of Marten ever manifest itself in the strip?

The incident with the monk.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 01 Jun 2015, 00:03
Totally on a different subject: Jeph drew Hanners very pretty today.

We call those days weekdays.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 01 Jun 2015, 00:42
...why are we having this discussion in June?  Does Australia have a really late fall?
Leaves are still falling, but Winter is definitely here. Frosts etc. Too cold to snow in Tassie. Minus 5 overnight here in Canberra.

Ah Faye. Yes, you did do good. You are a good person.

Too good to do this to yourself.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Jun 2015, 01:27
I'm pretty sure that Marten will come home to find Faye in a mess - not just drunk but tearing herself a new one for her weakness. I wouldn't go so far as to rule out some kind of self-harming behaviour either.

The key at that point would be to try to ensure a constructive atmosphere. My real concern is that this will turn into a three- or four-way panic-fest (four if Claire comes home with Marten tonight). That is the sort of environment that only causes worse problems. Fortunately, I don't think Marten is the sort who will freak out in a way that frightens Faye.

Optimistically, the worst that will happen is that Marten will come home to find a moderately-drunk and crying Faye with a shattered whiskey bottle at the bottom of the far wall.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: icklebeccy on 01 Jun 2015, 01:53
Oh, Faye :(
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Akima on 01 Jun 2015, 02:23
Alas poor Faye. Realistic but sad.

Minus 5 overnight here in Canberra
Why I'm glad I live on the coast - no frost. Seriously, is there anyone who does not know that the seasons are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere? Also, our native trees are mostly evergreen, so they shed leaves all year round instead of in a big dump in the autumn.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: snubnose on 01 Jun 2015, 02:47
Damn.

Faye, thats not a "break" !

But I know this kind of behavior from the times I tried losing weight, haha.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 01 Jun 2015, 02:57
Also, no. We have never seen the Wrath of Marten. Frankly, I'm a bit wary of seeing it. Normally calm people can get frightening when they finally do get pissed off.

We came close at one point during the drunken Marten thread.

A right cross from Indie Boy would be a major wakeup for the Peach.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Jun 2015, 03:08
A right cross from Indie Boy would be a major wakeup for the Peach.

I cannot see Marten using violence on Faye unless she was in a hysterical loop or panic attack and he thought that slapping her would snap her out of it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 01 Jun 2015, 03:58
Oh, shit.



Edited to add: How epic would it be if Pintsize was the one who told her off for falling off the wagon?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 01 Jun 2015, 04:08
Damn.

That is all.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Nepiophage on 01 Jun 2015, 04:34
Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?

yes, he did. Dora is Autumn.

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-MUCHA-PRINT&Category_Code=QC

...maybe it needs updating, with Claire being so prominent now?

First I want to say I envy Dale because of this poster.

I eny Tai even more. But then Dora hs always been my favourite character.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: WareWolf on 01 Jun 2015, 05:07
Yep. That's how it happens. She's probably been hyper vigilant about not drinking when she's bored, depressed or angry...and it's the "reward" drinking that gets her. The demon is crafty.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 01 Jun 2015, 05:11
Intellectually, I understand exactly what's happened. I understand how easy it is for this to happen. I understand that this does not mean Faye is a bad person or doesn't genuinely want to sober up.

Emotionally, though, I'm done. Considering this is canon-wise about the same time Hanners gave her that note, considering she just got fired for this, considering all the shit she has just put Marten through, considering this came after she found a therapy group she was comfortable with...

I don't sympathize. Or empathize. It's not that I don't care about Faye; I just care more about the characters she's hurting at this point.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Toe on 01 Jun 2015, 05:18
Well if no one else is gonna link it (see title of today's strip, source in link):

(http://gunshowcomic.com/comics/20130109.png) (http://gunshowcomic.com/648)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 01 Jun 2015, 05:41
Oh, shit.



Edited to add: How epic would it be if Pintsize was the one who told her off for falling off the wagon?
She'd probably just turn him off again.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: KOK on 01 Jun 2015, 06:38
George RR Martin stopped killing everyone though. Nowadays he just pretends to kill people every other chapter, usually Davos.

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Welu on 01 Jun 2015, 06:48
I picked Cosette to be Fall because if get clumsiness.

I actually very dramatically whispered, "Noooo." at today's strip.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Jun 2015, 08:33
I would put Claire as more of a Spring, since she's blossomed a lot since she started interning at the library. The picture could use some updating I think... Jeph has added a number of regular female characters since he drew that. I don't really see Faye as a Spring.. she seems more of a Summer to me.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Timemaster on 01 Jun 2015, 08:57
Oh damn, FAYE! :-(

This is so sad, but not unexpected at all. My uncle is an alcoholic for more than 30 years now, so I know how difficult it is to find an exit from this addiction.

What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

Todays comic shows us how difficult it will be for Faye and how many miles she will have to walk. And I hope that she actually will develop the will to become clean. But facing reality and ones issues is always more difficult than evading them.

Good luck, Faye. I hope you will find strength in yourself. Your friends will surely try to help you.
But they can only lend you a hand.
The walking you´ll have to do on your own.

TM
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 01 Jun 2015, 09:03
Intellectually, I understand exactly what's happened. I understand how easy it is for this to happen. I understand that this does not mean Faye is a bad person or doesn't genuinely want to sober up.

Emotionally, though, I'm done. Considering this is canon-wise about the same time Hanners gave her that note, considering she just got fired for this, considering all the shit she has just put Marten through, considering this came after she found a therapy group she was comfortable with...

I don't sympathize. Or empathize. It's not that I don't care about Faye; I just care more about the characters she's hurting at this point.

Quitting an addiction is hard. Most addicts don't succeed the first time, or even the second. All too often even after the third. Alcoholics have been known to fall off the proverbial wagon after literal years of sobriety.

All that was my long-winded way of saying this strip did not really surprise me - addiction is a lifelong condition, whether the addict is actively indulging their addiction or not. Mark my words, this will happen again, at some point down the line.

Yes it can be devastating for the addict's loved ones when they fall off the wagon again, especially after the hell they were put through the last time. But the loved ones basically have two choices: walk away, and try to ban the addict from their thoughts and concerns, or do what they can to help the addict back on the wagon.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: amykathleen on 01 Jun 2015, 09:48
Noooo, Faaayyeeee.  Faye no!  Now I'm all sad-like.  :'(
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: KOK on 01 Jun 2015, 11:09
What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

There is no need for a real connection. Any excuse will do.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 01 Jun 2015, 12:13
It is the celebration backside that can be so insidious. That feeling of "Hey, I am/everyone else is having a good time. One drink can't hurt, right?" And the next thing you know it's three days late and you're waking up pantsless in a field two states away... Mostly though I think Faye has just been looking for an excuse to rationalize drinking again. Especially if she just grabbed a bottle and is drinking straight from it when nobody is around.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Dark Matter on 01 Jun 2015, 16:45
I keep trying to come up with something clever or insightful to say, but honestly I think "Goddamnit Faye" just about sums it up.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 01 Jun 2015, 16:56
My reaction was, "That's probably right on time."
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 01 Jun 2015, 17:10
What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

You also need to factor in impulse control. I happen to have bad impulse control for somethings. Not everything, I mean, I don't go around punching people in the face. But there are times when I really want something. Even when I know that it might not be the most healthy decision. And then, any excuse will do.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 01 Jun 2015, 17:40
I don't suppose I knew what alcoholism really was until I saw this episode, and it kind of blew my mind.

Also I didn't realize Paris Geller was in an episode of The West Wing! (To be fair, I didn't watch GG until years after I saw tWW)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: mustang6172 on 01 Jun 2015, 19:27
Anyone else think putting a robot in the freezer repeatedly would be really bad for the electric bill?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 01 Jun 2015, 19:31
Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 01 Jun 2015, 19:46
My current headcannon is that pintsize is constantly trying to stop Faye from drinking, but because of his size and lack of authority he is unable to make an impact. Instead she just immobilizes him or traps him somewhere.

Time for Pintsize to get a new chassis. I vote Duffman!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 01 Jun 2015, 19:47
Kinda called it.

I'm not Marten, but I'd grab the bottle and throw it towards that indention in the wall where she usually throws Pintsize.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 01 Jun 2015, 19:53
Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?

I dunno. Maybe the anomaly that produced him is the same anomaly that produced T-rex-armed Marigold.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Jun 2015, 20:20
Please let this not turn into a physical confrontation, which Marten will lose.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: quats on 01 Jun 2015, 21:15
The problem is, this takes away her responsibility. Marten is now both "The Bad Guy" -- because OF COURSE she was doing FINE until he showed up and screwed everything up (from her perspective) -- and the guy she gets to blame for not keeping her straight.

I've seen many families of alcoholics go through this: monitor the alky's behavior, check the house for booze, pour it down the drain when found, then kick themselves when the addict finds a way to get past all their precautions and turns up drunk. And almost inevitably, the drunk will blame the caretaker, too.

I will admit though that I cheered at "You don't get to enjoy it"!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 01 Jun 2015, 21:28
Who is this vertebrate who looks so much like Marten?

He is a hero born in a pancake breakfast.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 01 Jun 2015, 21:35
Please let this not turn into a physical confrontation, which Marten will lose.
Marten wouldn't win or lose, he wouldn't even try.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 01 Jun 2015, 22:12
I dunno about Marten being the bad guy. Faye's bargaining right now, but she's already admitted fault, and she didn't jump directly to blame.

If she's going to make that play, Jeph's established that she knows she's wrong to do it. It would just be typical alcoholic behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if she did try to burn that bridge. It's been my experience that addicts commence digging when they hit rock bottom.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 01 Jun 2015, 22:35
I hadn't thought of the possibility of her torpedoing her friendship with Marten. It would be an alcoholic kind of thing to do, though.

There's a major source of conflict coming up the next time the rent is due.

I really hope the imaginary people come through this OK.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 01 Jun 2015, 22:38
Kinda called it.

I'm not Marten, but I'd grab the bottle and throw it towards that indention in the wall where she usually throws Pintsize.

Marten's already used up enough testosterone just demanding the bottle from Faye. If he actually physically takes it from her, his heart may collapse from the strain. Either that or Faye will punch him repeatedly in the balls until he passes out from the pain, since no one comes between the Pugnacious Peach and her cheap liquor.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 01 Jun 2015, 22:54
Jeph's statements about his issues hover in that fuzzy area between problem drinkers and addict. How those issues play out with friends and family tend to be pretty much the same. I figure, if he's drawing from his own experience, there's a good chance that Faye is going to at least try to fire the bridges.

It depends on how far down the rabbit hole he wants to go, I guess. Sometimes a drunk person implodes into self-pity when confronted like this, and I've never seen a reliable indicator of when that's going to happen. I'm sure the imaginary people will be okay in the long run.

What's QC with no Faye?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 01 Jun 2015, 22:56
Give him the goddam bottle Faye!!!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Y on 01 Jun 2015, 23:13
I'm wondering if that's about the equivalent of 5 pints of beer if that's 40 degrees. And it seems she only bought one bottle now (unless we didn't see the extra spares). Perhaps her picture will be distributed to liquor stores and bars nearby, but that might only lead to her driving to Amherst and get drunk there. Unless there would be a rehab arc like in '28 days', although not sure how that works out here.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 01 Jun 2015, 23:25
Well done Marten! He has the courage to act on the love he feels for Faye, even though she currently feels little or none for herself. A lot now depends now in whether her friendships are more important to her than alcohol. Either way, I can see her storming out and spending the night on a park bench with a bottle.

Faye's childish reaction is very in-character. She has this issue of emotional immaturity sometimes that makes her very frustrating.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 01 Jun 2015, 23:49
I hadn't thought of the possibility of her torpedoing her friendship with Marten.

He got that way with her after the breakup; she coped and forgave him.  I would expect no less from him in return in this situation.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Undrneath on 02 Jun 2015, 05:41
Didn't Jeph make a poster to settle this question?

yes, he did. Dora is Autumn.

http://www.topatoco.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TO&Product_Code=QC-MUCHA-PRINT&Category_Code=QC

...maybe it needs updating, with Claire being so prominent now?

First I want to say I envy Dale because of this poster.

I eny Tai even more. But then Dora hs always been my favourite character.

I have always been drawn to the zaftig body. What can I say I like curves.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 02 Jun 2015, 09:14
I dunno about Marten being the bad guy. Faye's bargaining right now, but she's already admitted fault, and she didn't jump directly to blame.

If she's going to make that play, Jeph's established that she knows she's wrong to do it. It would just be typical alcoholic behavior. I wouldn't be surprised if she did try to burn that bridge. It's been my experience that addicts commence digging when they hit rock bottom.

If it's going to be realistic (and remember, this is comedy, not tragedy), Marten's going to have a tough decision to make when Faye can't make rent. If she's screwing up, he'll need to kick her out, or else become an enabler. He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Energia on 02 Jun 2015, 14:04
He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.
I like this - any other suggestions on what Marten's best response should be?  All I hear IRL is that it is up to the addict to change, and that as family/friend you can't get them to do so.  So what makes helping, enabling?  When does stopping enabling become heartless abandonment?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Toe on 02 Jun 2015, 14:26
There's a major source of conflict coming up the next time the rent is due.

Of course, even without the alcoholism, there's also the whole 'unemployment' part that hasn't been dealt with yet...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 02 Jun 2015, 14:46
He should take the bottle, but he should also tell her that any continued drinking means her leeway on rent is zero.

That's a bold statement.

Probably the smartest thing you could do, but there'd be hell to pay in the end.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Akima on 02 Jun 2015, 15:40
Stern Marten is stern. And lots of good comments above.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Jun 2015, 18:26
Stern Marten is being logical now. That doesn't actually work, does it?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 02 Jun 2015, 18:44
Stern Marten is being logical now. That doesn't actually work, does it?

It's better than being illogical.

He's not exactly being sensitive with the nitpicking apart her argument, but it's better than jumping to "GTFO YA DRUNK."

I'm a little concerned with the way he's needling. I get it, it's for the joke's sake, but if I were Faye, I'd be angry. She knows she fucked up, she knows it was a multi-step process, telling her that doesn't help things. I'm pretty sure this is leading to Marten asking Faye about the job search. Hopefully, she'll have an answer, or he'll have suggestions. Or both. Both would be good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 02 Jun 2015, 18:49
Well, she hasn't threatened violence.

Hooray?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Jun 2015, 19:14
Why would she? She knows she's wrong, she's only angry at herself.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 02 Jun 2015, 19:15
Well, she hasn't threatened violence.

Hooray?

I might be doing the thing where I read too much of myself into Faye, but from where I'm sitting, she isn't showing signs of violence because she knows Marten's right. That much is 'yay.'

Something about it concerns me, though, and this is where I'm forcing myself in there. She just seems so un-Faye, seems depressed, like she's in a mode thinking she's a fuck-up and that's the end of the story. That's my concern, and it's not based on anything but her demeanor and expressions, nothing canonical.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: MrNumbers on 02 Jun 2015, 19:58
Why would she? She knows she's wrong, she's only angry at herself.

Exactly. The alternative would have been her thinking Marten was in the wrong. Starting a fight over it.

She did not. The worst-case scenario did not play out. It's not that I thought it was the likely scenario, just that it was a possible one. Especially with Marten showing some backbone, she might have wanted to push back. She did not.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 02 Jun 2015, 20:16
I'm a little concerned with the way he's needling. I get it, it's for the joke's sake, but if I were Faye, I'd be angry. She knows she fucked up, she knows it was a multi-step process, telling her that doesn't help things.

Even though it works as punchline for those of us behind the fourth wall, it also doubles as a means of showing tough love by not accepting excuses or rationale for her slip up. If anything, the needling/gentle ribbing from a close friend is probably softening the blow of a rather stern underlying point: that being, "Yes, this is difficult and mistakes happen, but you had plenty of opportunity to turn back, but you continued to rationalise what you were doing."

At least, that's how I read it, a less confrontational way of saying "Come on now, don't give me that BS", rather than being pedantic for the sake of it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 02 Jun 2015, 20:24
Agreed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 02 Jun 2015, 20:26
Something about it concerns me, though, and this is where I'm forcing myself in there. She just seems so un-Faye, seems depressed, like she's in a mode thinking she's a fuck-up and that's the end of the story. That's my concern, and it's not based on anything but her demeanor and expressions, nothing canonical.

She's been feeling that way about herself since the break up with Angus. Before that really. She has said it in as many words.  And part of that is societal pressure. That you are supposed to always be there for your partner. That putting your needs ahead of your partner's is somehow wrong. But she feels she has failed, and hard. And worse that she is a failure and a fuck up and doesn't see or doesn't want to find a way out of that. So yes, she's been wallowing in self pity as much as cheap bourbon. And until she starts to work on that, she's probably not going to make progress on her other issues.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Jun 2015, 20:29
Sometimes I've been tempted to make a fake pill bottle label identifying the contents as "Self Pity" with a warning that it's habit forming.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 02 Jun 2015, 20:33
I like this - any other suggestions on what Marten's best response should be?  All I hear IRL is that it is up to the addict to change, and that as family/friend you can't get them to do so.  So what makes helping, enabling?  When does stopping enabling become heartless abandonment?

When your helping is making it easier for the addict to carry on their addiction, it is enabling. And sometimes, stopping that means cutting off all support and letting the addict face the consequences of their addiction, which could be severe. That can seem like heartless abandonment, but it's really more like not letting them drag you down with them. An addict who refuses to quit all too often turns out to be bad to be around for friends and family, and can even be downright dangerous.

For example, and taking it back to the comic, let's suppose Faye continued getting drunk after this incident. If Marten continues covering her half of the rent with only minor protest, all he'd be doing is providing Faye a comfortable spot to keep getting drunk, and she'd have no motivation to change. Kicking her out of the apartment then would look heartless to some, but it might be his only alternative to living with an alcoholic taking advantage of his kindness and contributing nothing to their household but a growing collection of empty bottles. Worse than that, suppose she got actively destructive, like destroying Pintsize in a drunken rage, or attacking and seriously injuring Marten, or starting a fire and burning them all out of house and home.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jheartney on 02 Jun 2015, 20:42
Initially, Faye did the right thing - she went to Hanners to help her get through a day of not drinking. Then she went through a day of helping Hanners with something, which also worked - Faye was A Good Friend to Hanners when Hanners needed it. Faye needs to be around people, so she's not stuck looking herself in the mirror and not liking what she sees.

For someone who asked, helping becomes enabling when the alcoholic can find a way to use the help in order to continue drinking. Letting Faye's half of the rent slide could be good if Faye were using the respite to work on her issues and find a way to not self-medicate with drink. But if she is drinking, then any support, like keeping a roof over her head while she drinks, is actively aiding the progression of the disease.

Being tough like this is not easy for Marten. Turning Faye out in the street (if it comes to that) would be incredibly awful. But letting her stay rent-free wouldn't be helping her; it'd be enabling alcoholism as it destroys her (and damages Marten too).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 02 Jun 2015, 21:17
Faye would benefit from a companion like Momo.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 02 Jun 2015, 21:19
Especially like Momo, since Faye would have to risk electrocution if she ever tried to shut her down.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 02 Jun 2015, 21:26
Yep, any AI companion assigned to Faye would definitely need self-defense capabilities for when (not if) Faye threatened to get rough.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 02 Jun 2015, 22:06
Yep, any AI companion assigned to Faye would definitely need self-defense capabilities for when (not if) Faye threatened to get rough.



And that's one of the things I hope this arc explores-- it shouldn't be a given that Faye will threaten another sentient being with violence.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Timemaster on 02 Jun 2015, 22:32
An AI compagnon for Faye would be interesting. And it could be a good thing, but self-defense capability would be less important if the AI had a anthopomorphic chassis that can´t be tossed around or stuffed in the freezer. Far more important would be the ability to stand up to Faye. She needs straight talking and no pussyfooting around her issues.

As  I write this, suddenly the picture of May appears before my inner eye. She certainly would be up to Faye. Either they would find a connection or they would despise each other utterly. Dunno if it would do anything good for Faye. But as May said a long time ago in her holographic form: "This is gonna be comedy gold!"

TM
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Ravenswing on 02 Jun 2015, 23:23
"DOOK DOOK" in P1 tonight?  Holy crap, is Faye going to start hallucinating multi-colored Hell Ferrets holding squeeze bottles of lube?

 :grumpypuss:

(Okay, you've got to be a Something*Positive reader to get it ...)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 02 Jun 2015, 23:31
There isn't much to say about today's strip that hasn't already been said by others, so I'll keep this short.

The only additional point to make is about the direction of Faye's gaze. Whenever she's really ashamed or into a self-loathing state, she gets like this - unable to meet people's eyes. That's why she only put up token resistance; she knew that she was in the wrong and wanted someone to save her from herself, even if only on a subconscious level.

I'll also add that this may be the moment when Marten finally admits to himself just how bad Faye's problem actually is. I think that he's been in a bit of denial until now.

I agree that we seem to be on an arc leading to Faye getting an AI companion. I'm hoping that it's May, if only to hear her describe herself as Faye's "Jimminy fuckin' Cricket"!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 03 Jun 2015, 00:24
if only david hockney drew qc, that first panel would have been beautiful.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 03 Jun 2015, 01:22
What I find the most disturbing is that Faye starts drinking again not because of a crisis or uncomfortable situation. She starts because she´s actually feeling good, because she has accomplished something positive, something she could be proud of. Something good she has done while she was sober. I´m not the addictive type, so it is hard for me to find a connection here, to empathize with her. I´m very careful with alcohol myself because of my daughter (and my uncle...).

It's alarming, but not all that uncommon. When you're addicted to something and trying to quit it and it's a struggle, you will find any excuse to reward yourself. Even if you're rewarding yourself by saying 'I haven't had a drink all morning, I deserve a drink with lunch!'
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Jun 2015, 04:22
From past experience, Marten isn't doing anything right here, except disposing of the alcohol. I suppose it's better than  being fully hostile.

OTOH, Martin doesn't have the experience to know any better.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Jun 2015, 08:58
Marten's mom could probably give him superb advice if he were willing to approach her about it. To have reached the top of her profession she must be an intuitive psychologist, and she must have known people with substance abuse problems.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jun 2015, 10:31
From now on, 'intuitive psychologist' is the job title I'm applying to strippers, models and the like. Thank you for that, IICIH, you've made my day that much brighter.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 03 Jun 2015, 13:26
It's time for Faye to realize that booze is not the solution to her problems. Chocolate is much better...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 03 Jun 2015, 14:46
Hmmmmm

I thought she was now hooked on Coffee.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jun 2015, 17:03
I don't think I noticed it last night, but in panel 2 Marten's face has no anger or annoyance, just pure concern. It's nice to see.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Welu on 03 Jun 2015, 17:48
Jeph's experimenting with the art lately and I'm not sure how I feel yet.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jun 2015, 18:14
Wait, really? What's changed?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Jun 2015, 18:15
If Jeph ever stops experimenting with the art, it's a sign that he's been kidnapped.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 03 Jun 2015, 18:53
New comic...

...and the people who predicted the situation with Faye causing problems between Marten and Claire were right.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 03 Jun 2015, 18:57
Yeah, that doesn't feel contrived or anything.


 :grumpypuss:
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jun 2015, 18:58
Trouble in paradise. Interested to see how the conflict plays out.

Definitely seems like a rushed response from Claire. She's never seemed the type to hang up like that, mid-sentence
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jun 2015, 18:59
Yeah, that doesn't feel contrived or anything.


 :grumpypuss:

That is it. That's the word I was looking for.

Teensy bit contrived.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jun 2015, 19:02
Unless she's coming over because despite what he says, she knows he needs her. That's the only reason I can imagine Claire just suddenly hanging up like that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: bhtooefr on 03 Jun 2015, 19:04
Mind you, she does have a jealousy streak (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653), and pretty severe anxiety issues, and she knows (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2457) that Marten and Faye were almost a thing... I'd be a little surprised if she didn't come to the worst conclusions.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 03 Jun 2015, 19:09
Unless she's coming over because despite what he says, she knows he needs her. That's the only reason I can imagine Claire just suddenly hanging up like that.

Unless she -thinks- he needs her. Or she comes over anyway because her imagination has gone into overload, and she thinks Marten and Faye are doing things they shouldn't - don't forget that she's been informed of Marten and Faye's history. He did have some hesitant responses - likely trying to word things carefully so as not to reveal Faye's relapse to outside parties. That hesitation could have indicated to Claire that he's trying to hide something. Which he is, but not what she might be thinking.

Mind you, she does have a jealousy streak (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2653), and pretty severe anxiety issues...

And people in their first relationship often tend to be overly clingy, and sometimes prone to overreaction when something comes up with their new beau.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 19:12
Claire has been understanding as hell but everyone has a limit.  I don't think her hanging up on Marten was an "eff you" hang up, more of a frustrated, I don't know if this is going to work because of your weird relationship with Faye hang up.  I wanna be mad at Faye, I know she has a problem and people make mistakes and it was a moment of weakness but damn, this better not be a recurring thing.  I'm 100% team Claire, and for as much as I wish her success I won't be able to forgive Faye of her alcoholism ruins that relationship.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Welu on 03 Jun 2015, 19:13
Wait, really? What's changed?

To me they look a little squished and widened, especially the heads and faces in Tuesday's strip.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: mustang6172 on 03 Jun 2015, 19:23
Claire has been understanding as hell but everyone has a limit.  I don't think her hanging up on Marten was an "eff you" hang up, more of a frustrated, I don't know if this is going to work because of your weird relationship with Faye hang up.  I wanna be mad at Faye, I know she has a problem and people make mistakes and it was a moment of weakness but damn, this better not be a recurring thing.  I'm 100% team Claire, and for as much as I wish her success I won't be able to forgive Faye of her alcoholism ruins that relationship.

Seriously?  Faye doesn't like Claire that much.  Kicking Claire out is for her own good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 19:26
Claire has been understanding as hell but everyone has a limit.  I don't think her hanging up on Marten was an "eff you" hang up, more of a frustrated, I don't know if this is going to work because of your weird relationship with Faye hang up.  I wanna be mad at Faye, I know she has a problem and people make mistakes and it was a moment of weakness but damn, this better not be a recurring thing.  I'm 100% team Claire, and for as much as I wish her success I won't be able to forgive Faye of her alcoholism ruins that relationship.

Seriously?  Faye doesn't like Claire that much.  Kicking Claire out is for her own good.

It might be, but all Claire is going to think is that Marten will always have an attachment to Faye she might not be able to compete with, or want to for that matter. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: McFace on 03 Jun 2015, 19:27
Claire has been understanding as hell but everyone has a limit.  I don't think her hanging up on Marten was an "eff you" hang up, more of a frustrated, I don't know if this is going to work because of your weird relationship with Faye hang up.  I wanna be mad at Faye, I know she has a problem and people make mistakes and it was a moment of weakness but damn, this better not be a recurring thing.  I'm 100% team Claire, and for as much as I wish her success I won't be able to forgive Faye of her alcoholism ruins that relationship.

Seriously?  Faye doesn't like Claire that much.  Kicking Claire out is for her own good.

Possibly, but we have the benefit of being a (semi) impartial audience  so we can make judgments like that with a clearer head.

I think the big thing people aren't touching on here is that Marten told a white lie as to why he didn't feel comfortable leaving the apartment and thus a potential misunderstanding is formed. I don't necessarily think he should just come out and say she had a relapse......but because he didn't it creates a problem.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 03 Jun 2015, 19:28
It might be, but all Claire is going to think is that Marten will always have an attachment to Faye she might not be able to compete with, or want to for that matter.
Do you think that little of Claire? Or for that matter, do you think Jeph would have Marten lose another relationship for that exact reason?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: mustang6172 on 03 Jun 2015, 19:32
It might be, but all Claire is going to think is that Marten will always have an attachment to Faye she might not be able to compete with, or want to for that matter.
Do you think that little of Claire? Or for that matter, do you think Jeph would have Marten lose another relationship for that exact reason?

^Here here!

Claire has never shown jealousy.  That's Dora's thing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 19:34
It might be, but all Claire is going to think is that Marten will always have an attachment to Faye she might not be able to compete with, or want to for that matter.
Do you think that little of Claire? Or for that matter, do you think Jeph would have Marten lose another relationship for that exact reason?

I'm not thinking little of her at all, she's been super understanding up to now.  Any person in that situation I think would have to start wondering if their significant other's attachment to an incredibly needy friend will be a hurdle in allowing the relationship to grow.  If anything Claire has been way more understanding than some people would in that situation, I just don't think she knew she would be competing with Faye (who has been kind of rude to her) for Marten's attention and time. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jun 2015, 19:48
I don't see that as being a reason Claire would dump Marten. It might put stress on the relationship, but I see it as being a factor in the end, not the root cause, whatever that may be, if it exists.

I mean, if for no other reason, Jeph probably wouldn't do that because it's how Marten and Dora ended. Jeph's never struck me as an especially repetitive writer...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 19:55
I don't think she would dump Marten over it, but it might start her wondering if the relationship can work.  She's the type that would begin to doubt herself and whether she's good enough, unlike Dora who's insecurities manifested as anger.  I don't want to see Claire doubting herself all cause Drunky McFaye can't control herself (kidding, kidding).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: LeeC on 03 Jun 2015, 19:57
Somehow I saw this coming.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: grez on 03 Jun 2015, 19:58
I don't see that as being a reason Claire would dump Marten. It might put stress on the relationship, but I see it as being a factor in the end, not the root cause, whatever that may be, if it exists.

I mean, if for no other reason, Jeph probably wouldn't do that because it's how Marten and Dora ended. Jeph's never struck me as an especially repetitive writer...

Maybe breaking repetition will come with Marten reacting differently to a familiar situation. That might be a good way to show some growth
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 03 Jun 2015, 19:59
The thing is, repetition isn't necessarily a bad thing, here. We all have traits, and we tend to repeat our mistakes a few times before we really learn from them (if at all). Just as Faye has yet overcome her dependence on alcohol, Marten has yet to overcome his tendency to put her well-being ahead of everyone else's, including the lady he's actually in a relationship with. I'd argue that it would be worse writing, almost bordering on bad fanfiction, if he magically got over that trait and was the perfect boyfriend to Claire. It's way too soon to be talking a break up for those two, but as far as presenting itself as a speed bump in the relationship, it's logical and consistent with Marten's past behaviour.

Incidentally, I think that's all it is, just a speed bump. If anything, the issue resurfacing provides an opportunity for character development, for Marten to be aware of what he's doing here. Perhaps it might even give him greater perspective on what happened with Dora. Not that Dora doesn't share responsibility for that, her own issues caused...well, issues, but Marten's attachment to Faye was a factor too. And so, it remains to be seen if he learns his lesson in the long run.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 03 Jun 2015, 20:08
This was actually foreshadowed when Marten broke a date with Claire in favor of the hospital trip.

Claire is bright and can generalize to a line given two points.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 03 Jun 2015, 20:10
So I'm thinking this will probably just be a speed-bump and not the end of Claireten... but if it were, that might be the thing that finally pushes Marten over the edge into spine-having in dealing with Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 03 Jun 2015, 20:11
But a Faye-first focus wasn't the only thing wrong in the Marten/Dora relationship. Dora's constant need to be in control (a lack of even allowing the other bodily autonomy - Marten got flak for getting a haircut without Dora's permission, as well as was blackmailed into not trying to grow facial hair, to name a couple), and a lack of boundaries were the main issues, imo.

People are claiming that Marten always put Faye first in regards to the relationship with Dora, but could someone please link an example? Faye didn't really have any crises that necessitated the kind of attention that warranted the dropping of plans with other people, or not like this, anyway.

Dora's problem with Faye was that she was insecure about her being Marten's 'second choice', since Faye was emotionally unavailable, but I don't recall Marten ever giving her any reason to think that that was true. If anything, Dora was responsible for her own issues, since she decided to go after him right after Faye turned him down. if she'd given everything a cooling-off period, then Faye would probably not have been a major factor, if not a complete non-issue.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 03 Jun 2015, 20:13

Incidentally, I think that's all it is, just a speed bump. If anything, the issue resurfacing provides an opportunity for character development, for Marten to be aware of what he's doing here. Perhaps it might even give him greater perspective on what happened with Dora. Not that Dora doesn't share responsibility for that, her own issues caused...well, issues, but Marten's attachment to Faye was a factor too. And so, it remains to be seen if he learns his lesson in the long run.

While this would be nice, something like that would make all the Dora-haters who seem to have no problem throwing her under the bus in this situation even though she hasn't been in the damn comic for months self-destruct or something.

Not a Faye fan, but I actually am not laying this on her doorstep. Addiction to anything is hard to kick, and at least this time there was no vomiting or drunken punching going on. Claire is aware that Faye was in a horrible way not very long ago and that she and Marten are tight. For the time being, Faye comes with the Marten package. It is what it is. It's possible Claire might be reassessing if that works for her, and that's fine. Or she could be on her way over. But this isn't on Faye, and I don't think it's on Marten, either. It's not like he just sprung his friendship with Faye or her addiction issues on Claire out of the blue.

I do wonder why he feels it does need to be "just him," though. Faye's not very fond of Claire, I guess, but she is aware that she is Marten's girlfriend, and, as such, will be around a lot. It could be, though, that Marten doesn't want Claire to see or know Faye backslid.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 03 Jun 2015, 20:20
I'd say it being 'just him' is Marten being respectful to Faye's privacy. It'd also rather rude to invite a friend - any friend - over, even if they were aware of Faye's current issue, especially with something like this. If anything, Faye should be in control of who is invited in while she's going through this, and I'd imagine that a woman who's overstepped her boundaries before by snarking Faye despite not knowing her all that well would not be welcome company at the moment.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 20:30
I don't think it would have been rude to ask Claire to come over. She knows the situation, keeping her at bay is only making her feel less important to Marten.  If Faye is a "part of the package" then Claire should be Marten needs to accommodate Claire accordingly, not lie to her. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 03 Jun 2015, 20:35
It might be, but all Claire is going to think is that Marten will always have an attachment to Faye she might not be able to compete with, or want to for that matter.
Do you think that little of Claire? Or for that matter, do you think Jeph would have Marten lose another relationship for that exact reason?

^Here here!

Claire has never shown jealousy.  That's Dora's thing.

Dora might have a problem with jealousy but that doesn't mean Faye and Marten aren't codependent. One of the dynamics addicts and the people who love them have to confront is the way the addict's addiction can be like a black hole that sucks away at the lives of everyone around them.

I have no idea what I'd do in Marten's shoes. But I do know that if I were his friend is suggest he join a group for the friends and families of addicts, like Al Anon.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zalder on 03 Jun 2015, 20:36
^ Super codependent. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 03 Jun 2015, 20:55
This was actually foreshadowed when Marten broke a date with Claire in favor of the hospital trip.

Claire is bright and can generalize to a line given two points.

I mean fuck. If my best friend was potentially dying, hell even a casual acquaintance, and I was there at that time, with the option to act, I could be going on a date with my ultimate woman and I'd pass.

I mean fuck. It's human life versus a goddamn date. The date becomes irrelevant when life is in the fucking balance.

If Claire would hold that against Marten, I'd immediately stop liking and respecting her. That's a bullshit attitude.

This would be, from this perspective, the first non-emergency cancellation.

What would you have said if, instead of taking Faye to the hospital, he let her die so he could go out with Claire? Well, Claire would likely have a similar opinion. She doesn't seem such a sociopath, to put date night above the life of another human being.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 03 Jun 2015, 21:00
I don't think it would have been rude to ask Claire to come over. She knows the situation, keeping her at bay is only making her feel less important to Marten.  If Faye is a "part of the package" then Claire should be Marten needs to accommodate Claire accordingly, not lie to her.

Sometimes a friendship needs to get back to its roots. Having a third person there, however important they may be, ruins that dynamic.

Also, Marten and Claire have been pretty much joined at the hip. It isn't healthy for a relationship.

Just because you are in a relationship, however awesome that relationship may be, it doesn't mean that you throw any other friendships out the window, or that you can expect your friends to always want your significant other to be around regardless of propriety or context.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Jun 2015, 21:27
The roots of Marten and Faye's relationship is frustrated mutual sexual attraction.

I'm thinking that may not be the answer here.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 03 Jun 2015, 21:31
I'm more interested in whether Marten will be able to practice "detachment with love," as Al Anon describes. Right now, he and Faye have a long established relationship dynamic where he gets to be the rescuer. He's also never known Faye outside of her addiction. Her achieving and maintaining sobriety is going to really change their relationship.

I'm not sure Marten realizes what an enabler he's been for Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: twixieshores on 03 Jun 2015, 21:34
I'd say it being 'just him' is Marten being respectful to Faye's privacy. It'd also rather rude to invite a friend - any friend - over, even if they were aware of Faye's current issue, especially with something like this. If anything, Faye should be in control of who is invited in while she's going through this, and I'd imagine that a woman who's overstepped her boundaries before by snarking Faye despite not knowing her all that well would not be welcome company at the moment.

As someone who's been in both Faye's and Claire's position, I completely agree.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 03 Jun 2015, 21:36
To be fair: A) Everyone is the hero of their own story, and B) Marten asking "What caused this," reasoning at it shows he hasn't got his head around what Faye's problem is. Together, those things make it unlike for him to recoginze the part he's playing in the problem.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Timemaster on 03 Jun 2015, 22:36
Good morning,

It´s 7:30am over here in Europe and I´m not quite awake yet. So could someone please explain to me what Martens expression "I think I´m gonna need a rain check on tonight" means? I think I can imagine, but there might be implicated meanings that escape me.

Claire is openly jealous, but in my oppinion Martens behavior is absolutely correct here. She knows about Fayes addiction and Martens "Faye´s not, uh, feeling too good" should be explanation enough for her, if she isn´t completely dumb (which she isn´t). And having her come over would be contraproductive keeping in mind that Claire and Faye had their troubles on their last encounter we know of.
So what should Marten do in this situation, standing in the middle between friendship and relationship? Of cause he should choose the former. Relationships come and go, but friendships last. This doesn´t mean that he terminates his relationship right here and now. And if Claire doesn´t understand that, it´s her problem and not his. Pressing a gun on the chest of someone you love is never a good idea.
If my girlfriend would demand of me to choose between her and a friend in need, the choice would be simple. The only thing I would take over friendship is family.
Marten is loyal. And loyalty is more important than love.

But we do not know enough of the situation right now to come to further conclusions. Maybe Claire is angry because they had originally planned something special for tonight. She doesn´t strike me as the overly jealuos type, so we should be more careful and avoid overinterpreting this incindent. Maybe tomorrow we will now more about what is really going on here.

TM
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 03 Jun 2015, 23:08
Marten, old son? Better order some flowers to give to a certain someone tomorrow. You'd also better start drafting an apology!

I don't think that anyone who has more than a passing familiarity with the characters will be surprised by this. Naturally, Claire feels insecure in a new relationship and feels threatened by Marten's need to care for his surrogate sister. Give that the two women don't like eachother very much, Marten is probably right to ask Claire not to come over, mostly to prevent unpredictable conflict between them. However, this won't stop Claire feeling upset and even betrayed.

What I find interesting is to consider whether Faye works out what is happening and feels guilty for causing Marten problems.

FWIW, this, to me, is another step towards Faye getting a full-time minder.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: CasAttack on 03 Jun 2015, 23:13
I sort of saw this coming a mile away :(

For starters, I think people should lay off of Claire a bit here. While she knows the situation with Faye, sure, she doesn't know Faye's history or personal life AT ALL. In fact, because Faye has made their relationship rather frosty and hostile (boy did seeing that irritate me), Claire has reason to worry about their personal relationship. Faye did that awful "we're on another level than you so keep a distance" thing to her, and while yeah Faye and Marten DO have a very close, nearly familial relationship at this point that's exactly not how you treat your friend's new girlfriend. Claire's got some insecurities that Marten is really helping her through, she's already a shy and introverted personality in comparison to Marten's crowd and this is her first relationship. Claire reminds me a lot of myself in personality, and I know for me it is hard to place trust in new things, situations, and people. Faye's a little hard to trust for folks like us, and also immensely intimidating. I trust that this isn't going to be some major break-up, but rather will become a learning moment for them in their relationship and a "my bad" moment for Claire.

But I will say, Faye's in no shape I feel to be living with Marten. I applaud any friend who is supportive on this level to shoulder someone else's substance abuse problem AND tolerate what's probably not a great financial situation (Faye being unemployed, Marten not making bank and both of them with bills). That being said, this is not something I feel Marten or anyone is equipped to handle. Faye needs perhaps full time professional help. This will also allow Marten and others to be supportive friends but not literally crutches holding Faye up.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Penquin47 on 03 Jun 2015, 23:31
Good morning,

It´s 7:30am over here in Europe and I´m not quite awake yet. So could someone please explain to me what Martens expression "I think I´m gonna need a rain check on tonight" means? I think I can imagine, but there might be implicated meanings that escape me.

Basically, it means "due to unforeseen complications, we need to cancel our plans and reschedule".  I *think* it comes from baseball: since the games are played outdoors, if a game was rained out,  the club would offer "rain checks" to people who'd bought tickets for that game that they could use to come back some other day without having to buy another ticket.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Tova on 03 Jun 2015, 23:38
New comic...

...and the people who predicted the situation with Faye causing problems between Marten and Claire were right.

To be honest, I had found those opinions to be ridiculous. I'm kind of disappointed they have been validated even to this small degree.

I'm hoping this turns out to be really nothing, and that Claire apologizes for her reaction next time they get together. The hanging up part, that is - understandable that she would be a bit bummed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 00:07
Good morning,

It´s 7:30am over here in Europe and I´m not quite awake yet. So could someone please explain to me what Martens expression "I think I´m gonna need a rain check on tonight" means? I think I can imagine, but there might be implicated meanings that escape me.

Basically, it means "due to unforeseen complications, we need to cancel our plans and reschedule".  I *think* it comes from baseball: since the games are played outdoors, if a game was rained out,  the club would offer "rain checks" to people who'd bought tickets for that game that they could use to come back some other day without having to buy another ticket.

"Rain checks" are also often offered on items that go out of stock during sales in stores.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: rfrank dodelijk on 04 Jun 2015, 00:21
I think the candy floss unicorns are about to be culled. thank you, mr.jacques.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Scarblac on 04 Jun 2015, 00:40
She's been feeling that way about herself since the break up with Angus. Before that really. She has said it in as many words.  And part of that is societal pressure. That you are supposed to always be there for your partner. That putting your needs ahead of your partner's is somehow wrong. But she feels she has failed, and hard. And worse that she is a failure and a fuck up and doesn't see or doesn't want to find a way out of that. So yes, she's been wallowing in self pity as much as cheap bourbon. And until she starts to work on that, she's probably not going to make progress on her other issues.
And now she is forcing Marten to put her needs before his partner's. Can't be an improvement.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jun 2015, 00:51
She's not forcing Marten to do anything.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jun 2015, 01:16
She's not forcing Marten to do anything.

However, and this is the kicker, I wouldn't be surprised if she tells herself that she is forcing him to neglect Claire. Remember what I said about low self-esteem on several occasions? Well, this is just the sort of incident that would play into Faye's sense of being worthless and a burden on her friends. Marten, correctly, is trying to keep his drama out of her life (even though the two are actually linked in this case) but Faye has lived with him for going on two years; if she can't deduce what's going on, then she's a lot drunker than she's been written so far.

So, yeah, I can imagine her trying to persuade Marten to go on his date with Claire anyway, insisting that she'll be 'okay'. Irrespective of whether he succumbs to her persuasion (and it would take a hell of a lot of will on his part not to take an excuse to do something that he wants to do anyway) then I'm seriously worried that Faye may decide to take positive action to 'free' Marten from the 'burden' of looking after her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jun 2015, 02:38
A lot of word yardage has occurred here, but to weigh in on the Faye thing.

Faye is not taking a priority over Claire, generally.

There is a difference between dropping your girlfriend all the time to see your friend for no reason and breaking a date that has no real significance (not Valentine's; not a holiday; not an anniversary) to assist a friend who is having a relapse of a terrible disease.

He is not prioritising Faye over his relationship. I have friends with problems too, and my girlfriend is understanding enough that if there is a depression issue, an addiction issue, sometimes that can take priority.

What if Faye managed to get herself hospitalised again, or drink herself to death because Marten chose to go to the movies? I don't think he's being super unreasonable.

Also whoever it was that would never forgive Faye if this broke Marten up with Claire? That's the kind of attitude that causes further relapse. Alcoholism is a disease, a disorder, a problem that takes a great deal of strength to get over, as with any addiction.

I also don't think it's that hackneyed a drama. I'd say all three of them are acting perfectly in-character.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Ravenswing on 04 Jun 2015, 03:18
A few thoughts.

* First off, is it a surprise to anyone that Claire's a bit high strung?  And even mellow folks can have bad days.  Claire's a long, long way from mellow.

* Secondly, would it be that much of a surprise to anyone if Claire's insecure about this situation?  This relationship with Marten is a NEW one, and may well be her FIRST one.  He's living with another woman, someone for whom Claire knows he's had feelings and has been told has had feelings for him, someone whose interactions with Marten everyone in the social circle knows ALREADY split up a relationship of his.  That woman's just broken up with her own SO, she's just lost her job, she's got a substance abuse problem, and that's the sort of situation where ladies in Faye's position often go trolling for some man, ANY man, to help them feel better.  Hey, look, there's one right there ... 

* Then factor in that Claire's trans.  It'd take a woman of iron self-confidence, in her shoes, not to wonder for even an instant whether Marten would rather be with a "real" woman and is only with her because he's settling for what was handy.  Hey, look, there's one right there ...

* As far as Marten not wanting anyone else around in dealing with this ... I've been in that position a lot of times.  I've got a turn of phrase that's filtered into our social circle: "Non-players off the green."  It's code for "I've got this, I don't need any help, I don't need anyone else mucking this up, this isn't a spectator sport, and I don't have the time or the mental energy to spare from caring for my friend to explain what's going on to kibitzers, even if I was inclined to play fast and loose with my friend's confidences and troubles, which I am most certainly effing not."  There are those who don't find this endearing.

* Finally, look, folks.  We've got a third-person omniscient viewpoint.  WE know Faye isn't trying to get into Marten's pants.  WE know that they're not banging.  WE know that -- at least from what we've seen over the dozen years of the comic -- Marten's not a cheater.  WE know that Faye has a serious alcohol problem.  WE know that she's really messed up over Angus leaving.  WE know that the overwhelming number of Marten's friends being women is because he likes having women friends, and not because he's after a harem.  WE know that Faye's hospitalization was no petty matter, and that she was in serious danger.

Claire doesn't know these things.  Not for a certain fact.  She has no idea that Faye is as bad as she is (and it is, after all, a hard-drinking social circle, where a number of them routinely get blitzed).  She has no idea that Faye isn't trying to get her hooks into Marten, and has no idea that she doesn't already.  She doesn't have a camera trained in their apartment, so that she's got proof that the crises Marten claims are happening are actually happening.  She wasn't privy to Faye's medical records.

If any of you think that Claire's got the serene self-confidence in both herself and her new relationship with this guy she doesn't know all THAT well to be as sure of the reality of the situation as we are, you're not paying attention.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Jun 2015, 03:41
Didn't we see Claire at the hospital? She's privy at least to the fact that that DID happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had her concerns; that is to be expected. I'm just thrown off by the way that's presenting. Claire always seemed to me like the type who would keep talking for ages in hopes of getting some assurance Marten was telling the truth, not hang up so soon.

I like that expression, by the way. Good, simple way to put it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Mlle Germain on 04 Jun 2015, 03:58
I also think what's happened is pretty in character for everyone -- I can understand Marten wanting to care for Faye when she's doing badly; and I can understand Claire for feeling really insecure and jealous about it. And I also don't think this will break up Marten and Claire. I am sure they will be able to talk about it and come to understand each other.

I do think that Faye needs more external (probably professional) help, though. It cannot be good for a friendship and for a roommate-relationship long-term when one of the people frequently has to put their social life on hold to cope with the other's issues. Mind, I'm not blaming Faye for this and I think Marten is right in not abandoning her when Faye is in a really bad spot, but they both need to realise that this cannot become a regular thing -- it cannot be Marten's responsibility to make sure that Faye is not drinking.
I wonder if contacting her mother would not be good for Faye, actually. And she should go back to Dr Corinne (why hasn't she already?!). Maybe she can refer Faye to a programme. I think it would be good for Faye to go to a clinic; to have help around at all times and also to get out of her regular life for a bit.

Edit: And no, I don't think Claire was at the hospital. When that happened, Marten also called to cancel their date.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jun 2015, 04:06
Stuff

I liked this once, but I wish I could like it thirty times. I like the shit out of it. Thankyou.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 04:39
I think the candy floss unicorns are about to be culled.
I have no idea what this means.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Zebediah on 04 Jun 2015, 04:49
It means the people who have been complaining about there being no drama between Claire and Marten are about to get some. No more "Claire and Marten is like a herd of unicorns farting rainbows all the damned  time." They'll have to find something else to complain about.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cabbagehut on 04 Jun 2015, 04:55
I think that Claire knowing Faye and Marten's history shouldn't really be that important.  Yeah, there was something once, a very long time ago, but there's never really been anything since (that she knows about, and was generally not anything significant).  They've been friends and only friends for a long time, even in comic time (it's been what, a year or two since that point?).  Focusing on one event that happened long before she ever knew them, and that had a major relationship and a few minor ones in between meeting them, just suggests that she/people thinks it's not possible to stay friends with exes.  And they aren't even exes!

Like lots of us, I'm projecting my own experience on to the characters.  I don't have the most patience for Claire, admittedly, because I've had to take care of sick people, and there are always people who don't get it.  They have needs that you can't fulfill because someone else needs you more, and they either don't want to or just can't listen to the reasoning behind it.  It's frustrating to see a friendship or relationship fall apart because of a crisis you can't ignore, and the other person needs more than what you can give, but as I've said before: Claire is an adult.  She often doesn't act like it (and I know that's part of her charm for other people, and it's not wrong), but in this case, I think she would be better served by to taking a step back and realizing what a very serious situation it is, and her better role as "girlfriend" is as a supporter to her partner, who's taking on a lot for someone he cares about very much, and that if he asks for space, he's probably got a very good reason.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jun 2015, 05:11
A few thoughts.
* Finally, look, folks.  We've got a third-person omniscient viewpoint.  WE know Faye isn't trying to get into Marten's pants.  WE know that they're not banging.  WE know that -- at least from what we've seen over the dozen years of the comic -- Marten's not a cheater.  WE know that Faye has a serious alcohol problem.  WE know that she's really messed up over Angus leaving.  WE know that the overwhelming number of Marten's friends being women is because he likes having women friends, and not because he's after a harem.  WE know that Faye's hospitalization was no petty matter, and that she was in serious danger.

Claire doesn't know these things.  Not for a certain fact.  She has no idea that Faye is as bad as she is (and it is, after all, a hard-drinking social circle, where a number of them routinely get blitzed).  She has no idea that Faye isn't trying to get her hooks into Marten, and has no idea that she doesn't already.  She doesn't have a camera trained in their apartment, so that she's got proof that the crises Marten claims are happening are actually happening.  She wasn't privy to Faye's medical records.

If any of you think that Claire's got the serene self-confidence in both herself and her new relationship with this guy she doesn't know all THAT well to be as sure of the reality of the situation as we are, you're not paying attention.

Thank you for the perspective, and for adding to my sig.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 05:30
A few thoughts.

* First off, is it a surprise to anyone that Claire's a bit high strung?  And even mellow folks can have bad days.  Claire's a long, long way from mellow.

* Secondly, would it be that much of a surprise to anyone if Claire's insecure about this situation?  This relationship with Marten is a NEW one, and may well be her FIRST one.  He's living with another woman, someone for whom Claire knows he's had feelings and has been told has had feelings for him, someone whose interactions with Marten everyone in the social circle knows ALREADY split up a relationship of his.  That woman's just broken up with her own SO, she's just lost her job, she's got a substance abuse problem, and that's the sort of situation where ladies in Faye's position often go trolling for some man, ANY man, to help them feel better.  Hey, look, there's one right there

It is her very first relationship ever, yes.

Also - I still argue that it was Dora's control issues and insecurities that broke the pair up (remember how livid she got, both at the girl asked Marten out and that he didn't tell her, thinking he was trying to hide it from her). The last number of butting of heads had nothing whatsoever to do with Faye, as I recall, so I'd say it's rather a stretch to say that Faye was a major factor in the implosion of the relationship, let alone the cause. Dora's insecurities aren't Faye's fault, as she's exhibited them in regards to other people as well.

Didn't she also have serious hangups about Marten's (actual) exes before, also? Which would go further to prove that it was Dora's insecurities in general and not just in regards to Faye, since she'd have exhibited that trait otherwise.

Otherwise, I think what you said was pretty spot-on.

Didn't we see Claire at the hospital? She's privy at least to the fact that that DID happen.

I wouldn't be surprised if she had her concerns; that is to be expected. I'm just thrown off by the way that's presenting. Claire always seemed to me like the type who would keep talking for ages in hopes of getting some assurance Marten was telling the truth, not hang up so soon.

I like that expression, by the way. Good, simple way to put it.

Nope, she came over after Marten returned from the hospital.

I think that Claire knowing Faye and Marten's history shouldn't really be that important.  Yeah, there was something once, a very long time ago, but there's never really been anything since (that she knows about, and was generally not anything significant).  They've been friends and only friends for a long time, even in comic time (it's been what, a year or two since that point?).  Focusing on one event that happened long before she ever knew them, and that had a major relationship and a few minor ones in between meeting them, just suggests that she/people thinks it's not possible to stay friends with exes.  And they aren't even exes!

A year or two isn't a long time at all. The glacial pace of the comic makes it feel like it is. And I'd argue that Claire's knowledge of Marten and Faye's history is extremely important. As mentioned before she's extremely high-strung, and has a history of jumping to conclusions (even in regards to Marten,  and angrily so, might I add - the homewrecker comment comes immediately to mind). She probably got the Cliff's notes, and I'm sure Pintsize's summation of things ("They wanted to bang, but didn't. ") probably didn't do Claire's future piece of mind any favors.

So when Marten "blows her off" for Reasons Faye and is evasive (or at least, not forthcoming) of the reasons why, and pretty much says that her presence isn't desired there at the moment (not in a harsh manner, no), it's not farfetched to think that Claire could be interpreting things in the worst possible way, and I don't think she'd be reacting so badly if she didn't know the history. If she didn't know the history and -still- reacted this way, then we really would be retreading Dora's Insecurity Trail.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: diogeneticist on 04 Jun 2015, 05:35
Hmmm I'm kinda wondering what it was that Marten was about to say. "No I don't-"
-think you should come over.
-want to have sex with Faye.
-know a six letter word for radiator.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jun 2015, 05:36
Hmmm I'm kinda wondering what it was that Marten was about to say. "No I don't-"
-think you should come over.
-want to have sex with Faye.
-know a six letter word for radiator.

Wrong end of the conversation. Claire probably said something accusing like: "You're basically saying that Faye is more important to you than our relationship, aren't you?"

To which he was trying to say: "No, I don't mean that!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Akima on 04 Jun 2015, 05:42
Yeah... Which doesn't seem like Claire, but... a bad day, maybe.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jun 2015, 05:54
I think that Claire knowing Faye and Marten's history shouldn't really be that important.  Yeah, there was something once, a very long time ago, but there's never really been anything since (that she knows about, and was generally not anything significant).  They've been friends and only friends for a long time, even in comic time (it's been what, a year or two since that point?).  Focusing on one event that happened long before she ever knew them, and that had a major relationship and a few minor ones in between meeting them, just suggests that she/people thinks it's not possible to stay friends with exes.  And they aren't even exes!

Ah yes, I agree with this entirely, but... lest we forget, an awful lot of people don't feel the same way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 04 Jun 2015, 06:09
Also keep in mind that this is the second time Marten has broken off a date at the last minute because of Faye/Faye's drinking. Yes, rationally speaking the first time he was totally blameless because you know, Faye nearly drunk herself to death and Marten had to call the paramedics. And now what, two or three days after that incident he's calling off another date night to take care of Faye because 'she's not feeling well', to use Marten's words. That has to sting when you don't know all that's going on. Sure Claire is jumping things a bit here... but that's totally in character with her as other people have pointed out. When they have a chance to talk the next day I'm sure they'll work it out.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: swapna on 04 Jun 2015, 06:16
I think that Claire knowing Faye and Marten's history shouldn't really be that important.  Yeah, there was something once, a very long time ago, but there's never really been anything since (that she knows about, and was generally not anything significant).  They've been friends and only friends for a long time, even in comic time (it's been what, a year or two since that point?).  Focusing on one event that happened long before she ever knew them, and that had a major relationship and a few minor ones in between meeting them, just suggests that she/people thinks it's not possible to stay friends with exes.  And they aren't even exes!

Like lots of us, I'm projecting my own experience on to the characters.  I don't have the most patience for Claire, admittedly, because I've had to take care of sick people, and there are always people who don't get it.  They have needs that you can't fulfill because someone else needs you more, and they either don't want to or just can't listen to the reasoning behind it.  It's frustrating to see a friendship or relationship fall apart because of a crisis you can't ignore, and the other person needs more than what you can give, but as I've said before: Claire is an adult.  She often doesn't act like it (and I know that's part of her charm for other people, and it's not wrong), but in this case, I think she would be better served by to taking a step back and realizing what a very serious situation it is, and her better role as "girlfriend" is as a supporter to her partner, who's taking on a lot for someone he cares about very much, and that if he asks for space, he's probably got a very good reason.

You've pretty much summed up my feelings. Yes, taking care of a friend is a priority. Even taking care of strangers who are in a bad situation; if your partner is, for example, a volunteer firefighter or something they will blow your valentines three-weeks-planned fancy date off because their pager beeps - and they are right to do so.

I think Claire's still used to be joined at the hip with Marten, because if the months of Claire/Marten dating strips are any indication they spent almost all free time (and all their time at work) with each other, even after Faye was hospitalised. While I find a bumpy romance a bit more interesting (and it might even rescue Marten/Claire), I am surprised that people are angry at Faye. As of now, she's been a friend in need for a few days. There's been no indication that she's abusing Marten financially (she might have a little extra money from babysitting Sam), and she's looking for another job. Her hospital bills are paid for. Alcoholism is hard to kick, but she's trying. If this goes on for months, it's a different story but.. now?

And I have to agree with Gladstone: it looks a little contrived. Yeah, Claire's been childish, high-strung and so on, but she knows exactly what's up. Faye told her, remember (http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2895)?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Ravenswing on 04 Jun 2015, 06:29
I think that Claire knowing Faye and Marten's history shouldn't really be that important.  Yeah, there was something once, a very long time ago, but there's never really been anything since (that she knows about, and was generally not anything significant).  They've been friends and only friends for a long time, even in comic time (it's been what, a year or two since that point?).  Focusing on one event that happened long before she ever knew them, and that had a major relationship and a few minor ones in between meeting them, just suggests that she/people thinks it's not possible to stay friends with exes.  And they aren't even exes!

Yes, perhaps the history SHOULDN'T really be that important.  This being the real world, and people having real insecurities, of course it can be.  Seriously, folks, put yourselves in this situation: exactly how many of us have ever had SOs who'd be cool with us living with another person, where everyone knew we had mutual feelings for one another?  Heck, my wife isn't enthusiastic about some of my exes being on my Facebook friends list, a couple of whom I haven't seen in at least 30 years.

And I would humbly suggest that the great majority of people do, indeed, believe that it's not merely impossible but inconceivable to stay friends with exes.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 04 Jun 2015, 06:50
Someone up thread talked about force and how no one's held a gun to Marten's chest to make him skip a date.

The thing is, Faye has; that's part of what makes this a codependent relationship. The threat is now, If you leave, I'll drink.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: marsman57 on 04 Jun 2015, 06:51
Claire is in the right. Marten can't blow her off every time Faye takes a drink. He's not her keeper. At a minimum he should've let Claire come over.

I don't really know what the end game is here. It's obvious that Faye doesn't intend to stop drinking. He can't make her. That has to come from within.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: 94ssd on 04 Jun 2015, 06:53
Faye needs perhaps full time professional help. This will also allow Marten and others to be supportive friends but not literally crutches holding Faye up.

So I know this comic has never focused on financial stuff, mainly because that would be a boring as shit webcomic. But something to keep in mind when thinking about real life people with these same struggles: "full time professional help" can't be paid for with unicorn dust and smiles. In an ideal world anyone who needed therapy and addiction counseling could get it, but we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a kind of fucked up one. People regularly rush to "oh, they should get some real help" judgments without actually considering what that would mean for a person without spare money lying around.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jun 2015, 06:55
It's obvious that Faye doesn't intend to stop drinking. He can't make her. That has to come from within.

Didn't we establish that it's only been maybe three or four days since she was hospitalised?

'Oh you failed once? Clearly I'm wasting my time.'
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Jun 2015, 06:58
It's obvious that Faye doesn't intend to stop drinking.

Spoken like someone with no idea of what addiction can, and does, do to a person's brain.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 04 Jun 2015, 07:00
God help me if after my first failed attempt to quit smoking someone had said 'clearly you have no intention of giving up.'

I'm nine months into something like the 15th or 16th try.

And that's not the only thing I've had trouble stopping using either.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: gprimr1 on 04 Jun 2015, 07:24
The roots of Marten and Faye's relationship is frustrated mutual sexual attraction.

I'm thinking that may not be the answer here.

I def agree. I think they need to either spend some time apart and "detox" so to speak, or just do it and see where it goes. I've been in this situation many times, frustration, a woman who wants to go forward but stops herself. In some ways it's 100x worse having to deal with it than if you just do it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: gprimr1 on 04 Jun 2015, 07:32
You've pretty much summed up my feelings. Yes, taking care of a friend is a priority. Even taking care of strangers who are in a bad situation; if your partner is, for example, a volunteer firefighter or something they will blow your valentines three-weeks-planned fancy date off because their pager beeps - and they are right to do so.

I can speak to this as I am a volunteer FF. It's not easy to find people who are truly accepting of it, and even if you do, it has to be a two way street. If you always blow off plans for the firehouse, it's not going to work out and it's going to really hurt you in the long run because you need a support system. In the same stroke, the other person has to understand that sometimes it will happen and plans may get pushed back or cancelled.

In my experience, the people who work best are the ones with strong personal lives outside. That doesn't bode well for Claire, since she seems to be fused to Martin. Some of the firehouse couples I know may not see each other for a couple days or if they do, just in passing.

I do agree that Martin and Fayes history is relevant, and her other friends need to get involved. If he's the one constantly taking care of her, him and Claire probally will implode.

And I think that might not be a bad thing. It might actually force a really interesting story arc with Martin finally coming to terms with his own flaws.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: CM_albion on 04 Jun 2015, 07:41
You've pretty much summed up my feelings. Yes, taking care of a friend is a priority. Even taking care of strangers who are in a bad situation; if your partner is, for example, a volunteer firefighter or something they will blow your valentines three-weeks-planned fancy date off because their pager beeps - and they are right to do so.

I can speak to this as I am a volunteer FF. It's not easy to find people who are truly accepting of it, and even if you do, it has to be a two way street. If you always blow off plans for the firehouse, it's not going to work out and it's going to really hurt you in the long run because you need a support system. In the same stroke, the other person has to understand that sometimes it will happen and plans may get pushed back or cancelled.

In my experience, the people who work best are the ones with strong personal lives outside. That doesn't bode well for Claire, since she seems to be fused to Martin. Some of the firehouse couples I know may not see each other for a couple days or if they do, just in passing.

I do agree that Martin and Fayes history is relevant, and her other friends need to get involved. If he's the one constantly taking care of her, him and Claire probally will implode.

And I think that might not be a bad thing. It might actually force a really interesting story arc with Martin finally coming to terms with his own flaws.

how is marten at fault here? i fail to see how this scenario highlights any of his flaws (not to say he doesn't have any).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Soulsynger on 04 Jun 2015, 07:49
Can this please just be a case of "a wild quantum tunnel appears - it uses "signal unavailable through tons of concrete" - it's super effective" ?

I wonder how instrumental it might be to accuse Faye of being a disturbing factor in Marten's personal life. Marten might not be the kind of guy to actually DO that but with Faye being in the state she's in it's probably all too easy to hear any criticism offered as just such an accusation.

There's also Marten's state of mind and memory to consider. He's had a relationship basically blow up in his face over control-issues (Dora's).
In my experience, people hanging up quickly is often - at least subconsciously - also a way to gauge someone else's "stolidity" and thus to gauge how quickly someone can be persuaded to "give in" when faced with open-ended confrontation.
As with Marten, this might be out of character for Claire but no one can say how Marten might see it in his current situation.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 04 Jun 2015, 08:04
Can this please just be a case of "a wild quantum tunnel appears - it uses "signal unavailable through tons of concrete" - it's super effective" ?

I wouldn't be surprised if we find it was something just like that, or maybe Clinton visiting and one of his computer projects going awry. I still think Claire is on her way over.

Quote
I wonder how instrumental it might be to accuse Faye of being a disturbing factor in Marten's personal life. Marten might not be the kind of guy to actually DO that but with Faye being in the state she's in it's probably all too easy to hear any criticism offered as just such an accusation.

The thing is, she is. But it's not (entirely) on her. Marten has shown resistance and reluctance to let Faye go. I trace the demise of his relationship with Dora directly to the arc where he balked at moving in with Dora without Faye. Even Faye was like " ... Dude?" Dora gave in, and their relationship imploded shortly thereafter because Dora had to think that this was how it would always be, that Marten would not make any sort of personal move without the Faye factor, and because of the way their relationship started, that ultimately did not work for her.

Claire comes in knowing that Marten and Faye could have had a thing, but didn't. As far as we know, she got the TL;DR version. It is possible that if she knew the whole story, she would be more understanding, but that understanding goes only so far. The fact is, she is not Marten's girlfriend, his spouse, or the mother of his child. She is his friend. Yes, it's a different hierarchy than, say, Hanners or Tai, but the relationship is platonic. Claire, remember, is not only the child of divorce, but the child of parents who divorced because of infidelity. This is going to weigh heavily on her. Just as Faye's issues with abandoment had to be taken into consideration, if Marten wants things to work with Claire, he is going to have to realize that he is going to need to steer far clear from anything that can be read into as him cheating or wanting to cheat.

Quote
There's also Marten's state of mind and memory to consider. He's had a relationship basically blow up in his face over control-issues (Dora's).
In my experience, people hanging up quickly is often - at least subconsciously - also a way to gauge someone else's "stolidity" and thus to gauge how quickly someone can be persuaded to "give in" when faced with open-ended confrontation.
As with Marten, this might be out of character for Claire but no one can say how Marten might see it in his current situation.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on anything Dora-related. Beyond that, I think that it is possible Claire had something special planned, or is wondering, as someone mentioned upthread, whether everytime Faye suffers a setback in her sobriety, she is the one who will have to suffer the consequences (i.e. Marten's absence from dates.) I do agree that this is a little early in Faye's recovery for Claire to be this angry, but if Marten wants this to work out, he is going to have to figure out a balancing point. He can't just chuck his plans with Claire whenever Faye backslides.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Jun 2015, 09:04
she [Claire] is the one who will have to suffer the consequences (i.e. Marten's absence from dates.)

Why do you think he does not suffer those consequences as well?  Plus the problems of dealing with Faye on top of that.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: gprimr1 on 04 Jun 2015, 09:09
how is marten at fault here? i fail to see how this scenario highlights any of his flaws (not to say he doesn't have any).

He could have called Hannelore, or another friend to come over. Or just emptied the bottle. At some point, he has to be willing to put Claire first.

To go back to the FF example, a FF who never puts himself first ends up one of two days 1.) Burnt out and quit 2.) A statistic in yearly suicide counts.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 04 Jun 2015, 09:31

Why do you think he does not suffer those consequences as well?  Plus the problems of dealing with Faye on top of that.

There's no evidence that Marten sees it that way, IMO. He has had the opportunity to break free from Faye before (i.e. moving in with just Dora). He has not taken them. He could have called Hanners to come down. He could have told Claire to come over and explain that Faye had a rough day so would it be cool if they had a night in. Marten doesn't seem to see being Faye's Jiminy Cricket as a hardship.

Yes, he suffers, and he sort of gets close to some of the potential reasons why when he has his existential crisis after the Padma thing falls apart, but he does not see Faye's presence in his life, such as it is now, as a hindrance. It is possible that this arc will give him some clarity on that as someone else postulated upthread. But it's also possible that if Claire tells him to fuck off, he will not evaluate how his relationship with and to Faye might be hindering him from forming lasting romantic bonds with other women.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: CasAttack on 04 Jun 2015, 09:43
Faye needs perhaps full time professional help. This will also allow Marten and others to be supportive friends but not literally crutches holding Faye up.

So I know this comic has never focused on financial stuff, mainly because that would be a boring as shit webcomic. But something to keep in mind when thinking about real life people with these same struggles: "full time professional help" can't be paid for with unicorn dust and smiles. In an ideal world anyone who needed therapy and addiction counseling could get it, but we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a kind of fucked up one. People regularly rush to "oh, they should get some real help" judgments without actually considering what that would mean for a person without spare money lying around.

I'm not trying to be offensive here so I apologize if I did that with my comment. I guess more to the point I meant to make, Faye needs someone beyond Marten. I have no real knowledge on the matter to know who or what Faye needs, but Marten I think is someone who could unconsciously make matters worse simply because he needs to work, is in a very new relationship, and I don't even think is in a great head space to exercise the amount of patience someone in his shoes needs.

And while yeah, I hate to bring up finances as a thing to care about here, but I DO have experience in money matters ruining close relationships. An inability to get a job for whatever situation will place a strain on two friends who live together. With the introduction of Claire's character I felt that Marten was beginning to have some problems with himself in terms of not knowing exactly what he wants to do in life. Claire is intense and highly motivated, while Marten is going through the motions at work and both of them share a boss who is just there for some bucks and shows no intentions to 'grow up' anytime soon.

Bottom line I guess is Faye needs something Marten can't provide, and Marten might need to come to terms with that regardless of the current tiff with Claire.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Interlude on 04 Jun 2015, 10:26
In this case, I agree that helping Faye through a relapse is more important than a date. I also agree that having Claire there would not be helpful. However, I do understand her being uncomfortable with the situation. Marten is living with a girl he had strong feelings for, and if he starts blowing off dates in order to spend time with this same girl, I feel like most people would  be upset.

He should have walked into another room and explained the situation better. Claire is his girlfriend. Faye's alcoholism isn't a secret. He isn't doing anyone any favors by being vague or secretive about what is going on. If he is direct with Claire, and this doesn't become a regular thing, it will be less of an issue.

Mini-rant: I hate it when people start labeling a relationship that had its start in mutual sexual attraction/tension as a "familiar" or "sibling-like" relationship. Marten is not Faye's surrogate brother. They are not siblings. They have known each other for a couple of years and are very close, but that does not make their interactions that of a brother and sister. They act like close friends. The implications of saying they are like family is that anyone who feels insecure or jealous because of their closeness is being unreasonable. Nope. Attraction doesn't just die. I'm sure there are times where Marten still appreciates her curves. Even if that is not the case, the start of the relationship was mutual desire, and that does affect how people are going to view their current relationship.

 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 10:41
Claire, remember, is not only the child of divorce, but the child of parents who divorced because of infidelity. This is going to weigh heavily on her. Just as Faye's issues with abandoment had to be taken into consideration, if Marten wants things to work with Claire, he is going to have to realize that he is going to need to steer far clear from anything that can be read into as him cheating or wanting to cheat.

If Claire has ingrained insecurities stemming from a parent's infidelity and abandonment, then even innocuous situations can be read into as it happening again. It may be possible to avoid obviously-suspicious situations, but it is utterly impossible for Marten to 'steer clear' of situations that don't seem like they could be taken in that way. He can certainly try, but it is a lot to expect of someone to expect them to be on high alert with every single interaction they have, to make sure it can't possibly be construed as an indication of potential abandonment or infidelity, and will destroy a relationship sooner, not later.

Can he try to avoid the obvious ones? Sure. But the onus would lie on Claire to seek out help in dealing with her hangups, not Marten in having to cater to them.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 04 Jun 2015, 10:55
It's been mentioned before, but I think the time factor needs to be emphasized here; this is the second time in probably less than a week that Marten has cancelled a date with Claire due to Faye's alcoholism (I don't think it's even been a week since she got out of the hospital). And Claire isn't stupid, she'll figure out that's the reason, probably already has, hence her hanging up in a huff; she may be wondering if this is going to be a regular thing with Marten, and if so does she really want to deal with it.

I wouldn't blame her if she was reconsidering her whole relationship with Marten considering he's cancelled dates on her twice in so short a period of time over Faye's issues. She may find that she's just not able or willing to "share" Marten with so needy a friend, seeing as Claire is rather needy herself.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: dilbert719 on 04 Jun 2015, 10:57
Not suggesting she has to do this, but my respect for Faye would go way up if she grabbed Marten's phone (or used her own if she has the number, I just doubt she does), called Claire, told her that Marten was helping her through a relapse, and to come over if she'd like.

A large chunk of the issue here seems to be that Marten is trying to respect Faye's privacy, which introduces the opportunity for misunderstandings on Claire's end. If Faye outright admitted what was going on, so Marten didn't have to dance around the subject, that'd go a long way.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Jun 2015, 11:07
It's been mentioned before, but I think the time factor needs to be emphasized here; this is the second time in probably less than a week that Marten has cancelled a date with Claire due to Faye's alcoholism (I don't think it's even been a week since she got out of the hospital). And Claire isn't stupid, she'll figure out that's the reason, probably already has, hence her hanging up in a huff; she may be wondering if this is going to be a regular thing with Marten, and if so does she really want to deal with it.

She could as easily be thinking that because he's obviously dealing with the aftermath of the same problem, it's best to leave him to deal with it rather than distracting him.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: plusorminus on 04 Jun 2015, 11:39

If Claire has ingrained insecurities stemming from a parent's infidelity and abandonment, then even innocuous situations can be read into as it happening again. It may be possible to avoid obviously-suspicious situations, but it is utterly impossible for Marten to 'steer clear' of situations that don't seem like they could be taken in that way. He can certainly try, but it is a lot to expect of someone to expect them to be on high alert with every single interaction they have, to make sure it can't possibly be construed as an indication of potential abandonment or infidelity, and will destroy a relationship sooner, not later.

Can he try to avoid the obvious ones? Sure. But the onus would lie on Claire to seek out help in dealing with her hangups, not Marten in having to cater to them.

I hear you, and I think in general, this is correct. I think I am just looking at the situation here between them. Claire is not privy to "The Talk" that I know of. At the time that Pintsize gave her the TL;DR version of what happened between Faye and Marten, it was just a funny punchline because Claire and Marten were not involved. Now they are. From the reader's perspective, Faye has been to hell and back, she and Marten were the victims of lousy timing for romance, but they have a strong bond and are close friends and he isn't going to abandon her. From Claire's perspective, her first boyfriend and possibly the first cis man she has shown open attraction to, is blowing her off for his alcoholic roommate who nearly drank herself to death and got fired from her job for drinking on the job, and, oh, they both used to want to bang each other but didn't ... for some reason.

I think Claire would be totally on board with things when/if she gets some more expanded version of The Talk. Right now, though, she is a person who has had to live through her dad cheating on her mom and likely remembers stuff like "Oh, I can't make it for dinner tonight, hon, I'm working late ..." and things escalating from there.

If/When she becomes privy to what has gone in Faye's life and Marten's role in Faye's well-being, and she still acts in a jealous/possessive manner a la Dora, then that's one thing. But I think that at this point, Claire not knowing the whole story is fueling this. Marten likely should have had a talk with her about these things when they decided to become serious about each other.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: swapna on 04 Jun 2015, 12:03
how is marten at fault here? i fail to see how this scenario highlights any of his flaws (not to say he doesn't have any).

He could have called Hannelore, or another friend to come over. Or just emptied the bottle. At some point, he has to be willing to put Claire first.

To go back to the FF example, a FF who never puts himself first ends up one of two days 1.) Burnt out and quit 2.) A statistic in yearly suicide counts.

Let's put this in perspective - Marten cancelled twice in about a week or so. He still found time to spend with her otherwise, and Faye was on the brink of death. He is with her at work, he has found time for several dates (they visited Veronica, she visited him at least twice and they had time enough for their Martens-feelings-about-Claire-talk.) And he found time to call her before he tried to save Faye, and they boned afterwards.That is not putting her on the back seat, that's 'being attached at the hip and spending time with Faye only when he's sleeping in the next room or when Claire's visiting'.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 04 Jun 2015, 12:11
It's been mentioned before, but I think the time factor needs to be emphasized here; this is the second time in probably less than a week that Marten has cancelled a date with Claire due to Faye's alcoholism (I don't think it's even been a week since she got out of the hospital). And Claire isn't stupid, she'll figure out that's the reason, probably already has, hence her hanging up in a huff; she may be wondering if this is going to be a regular thing with Marten, and if so does she really want to deal with it.

She could as easily be thinking that because he's obviously dealing with the aftermath of the same problem, it's best to leave him to deal with it rather than distracting him.

The problem with that interpretation is Claire hanging up on Marten mid-sentence. That's the kind of thing people generally do when they're pissed off at the person on the other end of the line, and do not want to hear any more of what they have to say. There are other possible explanations, but this is the most likely one, and Marten knows it too, hence his annoyed/upset look and his sarcastic "Peachy." reply to Faye. Which also suggests he may be annoyed at Faye for putting him in this position again.

In any case, it sucks to be Marten right now. He's got both a drunk alcoholic unemployed friend and roommate AND a most likely upset girlfriend to deal with. There are worse things to be dealing with, but this situation is definitely not happiness-enhancing.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Jun 2015, 12:22
The problem with that interpretation is Claire hanging up on Marten mid-sentence. That's the kind of thing people generally do when they're pissed off at the person on the other end of the line, and do not want to hear any more of what they have to say.

That is true but not conclusive; she could react in anger and then think it through.  All I'm saying is that we don't yet know where in the spectrum of reactions she is. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 04 Jun 2015, 12:27
I mean...okay, I get the reaction, and I'd be annoyed too, buuuut...

Claire and Marten have only just started dating.  This isn't exactly a long-term relationship.  I'm hoping she's not going to blow this up into a huge fight and that this is a passing frustration, because frankly - she's the new(ish) girlfriend, not the wife.  She has a right to be annoyed and frustrated, but there also needs to be some perspective here. Claire does know the situation and she also knows that Marten is extremely loyal to his friends, which is why the fact that she just hung up the phone like that mid-sentence actually doesn't sit well with me - it comes across as very immature.

Which I guess is in-character for her, since she doesn't have much experience in relationships and does lack maturity in many ways when it comes to that sort of thing.

...The longer I type, the more I wonder if we're going to start seeing an ACTUAL relationship develop between Marten and Claire instead of this weird, idealized version that's thus far come across as kind of shallow (in my opinion).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Half Empty Coffee Cup on 04 Jun 2015, 12:50
Well, then.

Were I Marten, and this became a reoccurring thing (which, realistically speaking, it could become), I do believe I'd get to the point where I am obviously not a patient sort of person. Something like "From now on, you follow Hannelore around like a puppy. You don't let yourself be alone. Ever. And if you're not with Hannelore, you'd best be talking about this with Dr. Corrinne at that moment, or so help me, you can enjoy talking about it in inpatient. Hopefully, we can convince Hannelore to put it on her tab if it comes to that."

But, you know, that's if this kind of thing happens five or six times in two weeks, and I am, again, not the most patient person on Earth.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 04 Jun 2015, 12:50
I like to imagine there's been explanation of Faye's character to Claire outside what we've seen, but that's speculation.


[paragraphs of more things I agree with]

... I wonder if we're going to start seeing an ACTUAL relationship develop between Marten and Claire instead of this weird, idealized version that's thus far come across as kind of shallow (in my opinion).

I've shown my support for Clariten, I've made no qualms that I like Claire as a character, but that being said, oh my god, yes. I'm not going to complain about the two being happy, especially not since they're still in the early part of the relationship, but there HAS to be conflict at some point.

Her response feels like it's a bit exasperated for just the second time (first where life wasn't in danger) Marten pushed back a date. Especially since they'd just spent the entire day together.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Jun 2015, 13:52
He could have called Hannelore, or another friend to come over.

Normally you could tag in Hanners, but I don't think you can do that in this situation since that'd make her feel guilty for the whole thing. Other friends aren't close enough and probably aren't a good fit anyway(Marigold stumbling through it, Tai giving lectures of the dangers of substance abuse). Dora would work, except y'know, fallout.

Maybe Not-AA has one of those buddy systems she can get in on. Otherwise it's going to be a lot of pressure on Marten and Hanners.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 14:12
Clariten
That nickname is so bad I think I'm allergic to it :parrot:

As for Claire's reaction, I can understand her being disappointed, but (apparently) accusing him of something and then hanging up was shitty on her part.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 04 Jun 2015, 15:00
It would have been better if Marten had been honest about why he was a no show.  Claire is aware what happened, so I don't see why he was so hesitant about telling her that Faye had fallen off the wagon.

Still, this is the first bit of 'Relationship Drama' we've seen from the two of them, so I guess the Honeymoon Period is over.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 04 Jun 2015, 15:01
I have only two words:

Aw. Crap.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 15:20
It would have been better if Marten had been honest about why he was a no show.
Ok, Marten was in no way dishonest.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: GetOutOfMyHair on 04 Jun 2015, 15:22
If this is going down the road of "Oh you're so hung up on Faye, you're in love with her/can't let go of her, we have to break up", I'm going to cry and stop reading. (I know no one cares, but I had to get it out of my system)
thanks for reading bye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 04 Jun 2015, 15:37
It would have been better if Marten had been honest about why he was a no show.  Claire is aware what happened, so I don't see why he was so hesitant about telling her that Faye had fallen off the wagon.

Because it would feel intrusive of Faye's privacy even in this situation just to plainly tell it to someone on the phone in front of her.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 04 Jun 2015, 15:55
It would have been better if Marten had been honest about why he was a no show.  Claire is aware what happened, so I don't see why he was so hesitant about telling her that Faye had fallen off the wagon.

Because it would feel intrusive of Faye's privacy even in this situation just to plainly tell it to someone on the phone in front of her.

Enabling includes lying to friends and family about the addict's drinking.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 16:09
Which Marten isn't doing.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: osaka on 04 Jun 2015, 16:13
If this is going down the road of "Oh you're so hung up on Faye, you're in love with her/can't let go of her, we have to break up", I'm going to cry and stop reading. (I know no one cares, but I had to get it out of my system)
thanks for reading bye.

Welcome to the forum. Also, I believe that if this did happen, Faye would probably go nuclear. "I almost tore my boss to tiny little pieces when she pulled this same shit so you had better give me a single reason why I should not beat you to red mist right now".

Not like I'm waiting for it to happen or anything, or that I have plotted the several ways this could go wrong, or...

No, seriously, I don't want this happening. But it just seemed oddly familiar.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 04 Jun 2015, 16:19
We're all jumping to conclusions anyway. Jason probably just cut Claire's phone line.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 16:29
That doesn't really work with cell phones...unless he has a magic machete...hmm...Friday the Part XIII*: Magic Machete.

(I think it's only 12 even if you count FvJ but still)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 16:32
It would have been better if Marten had been honest about why he was a no show.  Claire is aware what happened, so I don't see why he was so hesitant about telling her that Faye had fallen off the wagon.

Because it would feel intrusive of Faye's privacy even in this situation just to plainly tell it to someone on the phone in front of her.

Indeed. It's one thing to be aware of the main problem, but the kind of feeling of shame and failure Faye is likely experiencing just from -Marten- knowing she fell off the wagon, and hell, just for falling off the wagon itself, is entirely another thing. Bringing in someone that A) has a tendency to open her mouth without thinking through what she says (I can totally picture Claire shooting off a 'well, that didn't take long' before really thinking about how cruel that would sound - she's already shown she's not good at reading her audience, when it comes to her jokes) and B) is someone that Faye doesn't particularly have much love for will do more, would pretty much be kicking Faye while she's down.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 04 Jun 2015, 16:47
Maybe Faye can take the initiative to get to know Claire better.  Friday's comic, the doorbell at the Augustus residence rings, Claire opens it, finds an annoyed Faye on the steps.  "Alright, Red, so I had a lapse in judgement and tried drinking again, and Marty was just tryin' to set me back on the straight and narrow, but since we're apparently not allowed to be alone anymore, it looks like you get to keep me company instead."  Maybe they can find some common ground

Oooorrrrr Marten could rush over to Claire's, try to explain himself, get into an argument, break up, the usual "It's not what it looks like!" song and dance routine.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 16:50
I don't think Marten could make himself look guilty any more than by doing that. (And I don't think he looks guilty now!)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Ravenswing on 04 Jun 2015, 16:56
So I know this comic has never focused on financial stuff, mainly because that would be a boring as shit webcomic. But something to keep in mind when thinking about real life people with these same struggles: "full time professional help" can't be paid for with unicorn dust and smiles.

EXTREMELY good point.  Before the Massachusetts health care law clicked in and in a period of relative poverty, I was badgered by a couple relatives as to why I didn't just go to a doctor to deal with some health problems.  I responded that if you're broke, it doesn't freaking matter HOW much you need something, you often cannot afford it.

Faye's unemployed.  She lives in an apartment either in, or in walking distance of, downtown Northampton, and that's one of the most expensive rental markets in western Massachusetts: the cheapest current listings for a two-bedroom apartment in Northampton run around $1300/month.  When she WAS employed, she was a barista, not what you'd call a high paying job.

He could have called Hannelore, or another friend to come over. Or just emptied the bottle. At some point, he has to be willing to put Claire first.

Err.  In a situation like that, there is no frigging way in creation I would dump this off on someone else just because having to deal with it was inconvenient to me that night, any more than the aforementioned volunteer firefighter gets to tell dispatch "Nah, I'm skipping this fire" because two fires in a row's inconvenient to his social life.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: DSL on 04 Jun 2015, 17:21
We'll know for sure in a couple hours, but I could see Claire showing up at Marten's door with a "Why keep me from your circle of friends?"
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Mr. Skawronska on 04 Jun 2015, 17:25
I've got a turn of phrase that's filtered into our social circle: "Non-players off the green."  It's code for "I've got this, I don't need any help, I don't need anyone else mucking this up, this isn't a spectator sport, and I don't have the time or the mental energy to spare from caring for my friend to explain what's going on to kibitzers, even if I was inclined to play fast and loose with my friend's confidences and troubles, which I am most certainly effing not."  There are those who don't find this endearing.

While neither I nor none of my team are golfers, I am SO stealing this phrase for general use when everybody wants to get their fingers into the little shitstorms we deal with all the time.

Thank you. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 04 Jun 2015, 17:48
Absolutely. I'll try to get it established in my circle of friends too.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 04 Jun 2015, 19:14
I just don't get the people who are saying that Marten should prioritize Claire over Faye in this situation.

Marten and Claire have been dating for like 5 minutes. As opposed to one of Marten's best friends, who he lives with. Honestly, this early in a relationship, if you are blowing off a good friends real crisis in order to hang out with your new boyfriend or girlfriend then you are not showing good judgement nor maturity. You are showing even less judgement if you insist on bringing your new special person with you everywhere you go. Marten and Faye should spend some time bonding, if Claire were there, I think it would turn into cute couples time.

However, I think the idea that Claire is insecure and jealous is very possible. Its her first relationship, it can be very hard to maintain perspective in your first relationship. But if that is indeed the case, I hope that Claire gets a good hard dose of reality. I don't want to see Claire hurt, but I would love to see Claire grow.

I feel that the people saying Marten is enabling Faye are being way too harsh.
It's been, what, a week since Faye was in the hospital?
Faye still deserves to be treated as a person, with dignity. Until Faye has financial problems, Marten has no reason, and more importantly no right to kick Faye out. It isn't Marten's apartment, I think he and Faye are both on the lease. Faye isn't "crashing at Marten's" anymore. She is an equal member of the apartment.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ASB84 on 04 Jun 2015, 19:25
Faye: even when her heart's in the right place, she's kind of an abrasive jerk.

But a Faye-first focus wasn't the only thing wrong in the Marten/Dora relationship. Dora's constant need to be in control (a lack of even allowing the other bodily autonomy - Marten got flak for getting a haircut without Dora's permission, as well as was blackmailed into not trying to grow facial hair, to name a couple), and a lack of boundaries were the main issues, imo.

People are claiming that Marten always put Faye first in regards to the relationship with Dora, but could someone please link an example? Faye didn't really have any crises that necessitated the kind of attention that warranted the dropping of plans with other people, or not like this, anyway.

Dora's problem with Faye was that she was insecure about her being Marten's 'second choice', since Faye was emotionally unavailable, but I don't recall Marten ever giving her any reason to think that that was true. If anything, Dora was responsible for her own issues, since she decided to go after him right after Faye turned him down. if she'd given everything a cooling-off period, then Faye would probably not have been a major factor, if not a complete non-issue.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it wasn't her fault. As I said, Dora shared in the responsibility with stuff that was on her to fix and get over. Again, her issues caused issues. ;)

I think one of the big thing issues as far as Marten is concerned is when she suggested moving in, and he agreed to it, but still wanted to live with Faye. It's been a while since I've read that arc, but from memory, it was about not wanting to leave Faye in the lurch. That's being a good friend, but he's also agreed to a major relationship step with his girlfriend, and wants to bring his other friend along for the ride...the same friend who he once had a thing for (and might have dated if not for her issues). He does that, knowing Dora has been hurt in the past, and has some lingering trust issues as a result.

There was also the situation when Faye and Sven first hooked up. Dora was bothered by it, again, due to her own issues with her brother, and feeling that Faye was trying to get back at her - her misconceptions, but still understandable given the back story - and Marten immediately came to Faye's defense. Whether she was completely right or wrong, Dora was clearly upset and bothered by the situation, and Marten's immediate reaction was to think of, and defend, Faye.

I just don't get the people who are saying that Marten should prioritize Claire over Faye in this situation.

Marten and Claire have been dating for like 5 minutes. As opposed to one of Marten's best friends, who he lives with. Honestly, this early in a relationship, if you are blowing off a good friends real crisis in order to hang out with your new boyfriend or girlfriend then you are not showing good judgement nor maturity. You are showing even less judgement if you insist on bringing your new special person with you everywhere you go. Marten and Faye should spend some time bonding, if Claire were there, I think it would turn into cute couples time.

However, I think the idea that Claire is insecure and jealous is very possible. Its her first relationship, it can be very hard to maintain perspective in your first relationship. But if that is indeed the case, I hope that Claire gets a good hard dose of reality. I don't want to see Claire hurt, but I would love to see Claire grow.

I feel that the people saying Marten is enabling Faye are being way too harsh.
It's been, what, a week since Faye was in the hospital?
Faye still deserves to be treated as a person, with dignity. Until Faye has financial problems, Marten has no reason, and more importantly no right to kick Faye out. It isn't Marten's apartment, I think he and Faye are both on the lease. Faye isn't "crashing at Marten's" anymore. She is an equal member of the apartment.

I don't entirely disagree. I think it's fair to say that Marten is handling the situation a bit clumsily, and if it's a situation that keeps presenting itself, it could be an issue.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 19:31
There. -Now- it's okay for Claire to come over, and Marten's not being put on the spot anymore, by either party, now.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 04 Jun 2015, 19:31
Faye is still drunk.  Faye just invited Marten's girlfriend over.  Marten's girlfriend may well distract Marten.

...

I thought Marten was in the right to not have anyone over for exactly this reason - because dealing with a drunken Faye who's supposed to be quitting requires his full attention, and having someone else around - someone who's rubbed Faye the wrong way before - wouldn't help.   Not thrilled with this development.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 04 Jun 2015, 19:33
Well done, Faye.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 19:37
Faye is still drunk.  Faye just invited Marten's girlfriend over.  Marten's girlfriend may well distract Marten.

...

I thought Marten was in the right to not have anyone over for exactly this reason - because dealing with a drunken Faye who's supposed to be quitting requires his full attention, and having someone else around - someone who's rubbed Faye the wrong way before - wouldn't help.   Not thrilled with this development.

On the flip side of the coin, she's with it enough to know that she doesn't want to be a hindrance to Marten's romantic life, and doesn't want him suffering because of her. So in this, she shows that she's not selfish enough to want to monopolize Marten's time with her problems.

Edit: And keep in mind, Faye's never been one to demand comfort when things go terribly for her. Just the opposite, in fact, as I recall.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 04 Jun 2015, 19:46
Of course, we'd be completely surprised on Monday if it turns out Claire reams her out for falling off the wagon.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: klaatu on 04 Jun 2015, 20:09
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: retrosteve on 04 Jun 2015, 20:15
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?

It's not just you, and I just came to the forums to post that question, word for word. Except I probably would have said 'chubbier'. She is starting to overflow the clothing.

I suspect this may be less of an artistic style change and more of a realistic aging of a character not taking care of herself.
Plus of course using up willpower to refrain from drinking leaves less available to refrain from overeating.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Tova on 04 Jun 2015, 20:28
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?

It's not just you, and I just came to the forums to post that question, word for word. Except I probably would have said 'chubbier'. She is starting to overflow the clothing.

I suspect this may be less of an artistic style change and more of a realistic aging of a character not taking care of herself.
Plus of course using up willpower to refrain from drinking leaves less available to refrain from overeating.

Exhausted willpower is almost certainly what got her into this mess in the first place.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Deadcoder on 04 Jun 2015, 20:36
She has gotten chunkier over the years.

Maybe we'll get some char development for Claire, where we find out that her father was an alcoholic.

<tangent>
I suspect that Faye's father was an alcoholic. In some cases, there is a genetic predisposition to addictive behavior. We also know that her dad hid his drinking from her mom. Maybe that's part of why he killed himself. Just throwing that out there.
</tangent>
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Deadcoder on 04 Jun 2015, 20:37
Frankly, I'm happy the honeymoon period is over. As a lonely bitter person, I find that period gross in other people. "CAN'T YOU BE DEAD INSIDE LIKE THE REST OF US?"
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: stixanstones on 04 Jun 2015, 22:24
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?

I thought the same thing, and poked the archives to find out.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2738

Looks like it.  That was right at the beginning of the sad-Faye-slide.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 04 Jun 2015, 22:29
Ahh, the return of the Pugnacious Peach


Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Romanticide on 04 Jun 2015, 22:33
Faye sure knows how to use her threats of violence with surgeons precision. Faye will probably go more steps back before she really gets better but she seems to be in will to take steps forward still. good.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: anahata on 04 Jun 2015, 22:47
After all the uncertainty that yesterday's strip created. I can relax for the weekend now. Thanks Jeph.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 04 Jun 2015, 22:49
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?

I thought the same thing, and poked the archives to find out.

http://www.questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=2738

Looks like it.  That was right at the beginning of the sad-Faye-slide.

To be fair, a number of the girls have gotten curvier - Tai comes to mind. I think Jeph's style's just gotten plumper. Which is funny, considering that everyone started off as generous stick figures in the beginning.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Timemaster on 04 Jun 2015, 22:50
Aah, the return of the ultraviolent Faye. I missed her. Will we see more blue spots in the future?

I suppose not. ;-) I think it is pretty obvious that she has no plans of beating Marten up any time soon. But does Claire know that too?
I have no idea where Jeph is gonna take us with this. This could lead to any situation I can think of. In any case there is a lot of potential for screwball comedy and hilarious situations. And maybe a little drama. Maybe. A little.

Damn, and now there is a whole weekend to go until we´ll get to know more...

TM
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: mvdwege on 04 Jun 2015, 23:19

I mean fuck. If my best friend was potentially dying, hell even a casual acquaintance, and I was there at that time, with the option to act, I could be going on a date with my ultimate woman and I'd pass.

I mean fuck. It's human life versus a goddamn date. The date becomes irrelevant when life is in the fucking balance.

You're doing it wrong. By not going on your date, you're enabling your friend.

</sarcasm>
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 04 Jun 2015, 23:40
After thinking about it, I've decided that Faye would have done more-or-less the same thing, drunk or sober. The only thing the booze did for her is to make her language cruder.

Now, I'm thinking that Claire will turn up with her softball bat and the shakily-declared intent to defend Marten! :-o

The darker part of my psyche can't help but wonder if this is one step closer to Faye moving out, partly because she feels that she is impeding Marten's life and partly because (although he never says it to her) he just can't stand her attitude anymore.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 05 Jun 2015, 00:54
...The longer I type, the more I wonder if we're going to start seeing an ACTUAL relationship develop between Marten and Claire instead of this weird, idealized version that's thus far come across as kind of shallow (in my opinion).

I know I'm late here, but this point is kind of a nonsense. In real time they've been dating a while, in comic terms they've hardly dated for any time at all, basically all couples are just insanely rainbow-farty in the early phase. I've had relationships that have gone as much as a period of months with no turmoil whatsoever because you don't necessarily know each other very well yet and so the conflicts aren't there. Calling it unrealistic or shallow I think is unfair, they're just in the honeymoon phase that basically shitloads of couples go through.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Lubricus on 05 Jun 2015, 01:36
FWIW, the fact that Faye (rudely) invited Claire over was quite redeeming for her. It shows that she's able to think about others even when struggling with her addiction, and that she is conscious about her effect on her friends. I'm sure that isn't easy for her. Now she just has to take care of herself as well...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Schwungrad on 05 Jun 2015, 03:02
Faye's spatial awareness must be extraordinary, to blindly throw a phone with such precision even during intoxication.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Akima on 05 Jun 2015, 04:56
If Faye played League of Legends, she'd be a natural Katarina: "Violence solves everything!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: swapna on 05 Jun 2015, 05:22
That's the Faye we know and... and.. know. But she's got love and loyalty for Marten under all those layers of crudeness and abrasiveness, and she won't let Marten be unhappy. Even if it means inviting Claire over, who's really not the person she wants to see right now. While I don't know about her methods, she's very good about cutting through the bullshit (as she was with Dora after her breakup with Marten).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Neko_Ali on 05 Jun 2015, 06:03
If Faye played League of Legends, she'd be a natural Katarina: "Violence solves everything!"

Nah, she would totally play Vi. "Vi? It stands for violence." Then a little punch-fu....
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 05 Jun 2015, 06:08
...The longer I type, the more I wonder if we're going to start seeing an ACTUAL relationship develop between Marten and Claire instead of this weird, idealized version that's thus far come across as kind of shallow (in my opinion).

I know I'm late here, but this point is kind of a nonsense. In real time they've been dating a while, in comic terms they've hardly dated for any time at all, basically all couples are just insanely rainbow-farty in the early phase.

Yes and no.  It's because they've known each other and been friends for a decent length of time prior to dating that I say it seems unrealistic - it's been my experience that when you've known someone for a while (which they have) and you start dating, you don't really bypass that honeymoon phase, but it's significantly toned down.  It just feels very...contrived? I'm not sure if that's the word I'm looking for.  But that's me.  YMMV.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Jun 2015, 06:16
YMMV.

My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.

Using a marker someone tossed out in another thread, I've pegged the Faye's drinking meltdown spectacular at over 430 strips, starting from the "where do you see yourself in five years." It seems likely that what we were shown of Marten and Claire was presented as it was because Jeph was going to be facing his demons right on top of that and had been working up to it for a good long time (almost 2 years).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 05 Jun 2015, 06:49
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: lummo on 05 Jun 2015, 06:53
In my experience, the most difficult and dramatic part of dealing with addicts has been realizing that they were basically swiss army knives full of hate and beginning to distance myself from them.

One time, and in this case the fellow died of an overdose, I had spoken to a drug and alcohol counselor myself...about my friend and how to help him.

After a certain point, all you can do is leave them to it.





Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Somnus Eternus on 05 Jun 2015, 07:10
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?

Sure would solve our fossil fuel problem, though, if that could be mass marketed.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 05 Jun 2015, 07:21
Been pondering Marten's ending line all night (I work 3rd shift as a Hotel desk clerk).  He's not very amused here - that's serious snark verging on very serious anger. I think Jeph is pointing us at Marten getting to the "enough" point. I think if push really comes to shove, Claire wins. Everyone comments about how he's her first real relationship but I think that in a very important way she is _his_ as well. This is the first time we've seen him take someone else more seriously than anything else in his life. That was the real reason mom said "I saw it coming". She may or may not see the details but she did see Marten grow up three or four levels.

So, he's felt he needed to break a date because of Faye's issues - as a friend you do that but you still feel the anger - and then she pulls her usual "swiss knife of violence" crap on top of it? Clairiten isn't that fragile; the insinuation that she had to help is... unfortunate.

Yeah, I can see him asking her to move out as the 3000 shoe drop.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Coffee_Kaioken on 05 Jun 2015, 07:31
I can't imagine a separation of Faye and Marten helping any abandonment issues she may have. I hope it doesn't get to that point.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: BenRG on 05 Jun 2015, 07:38
I can't imagine a separation of Faye and Marten helping any abandonment issues she may have. I hope it doesn't get to that point.

IMO, Faye is likely to be the driving force behind her moving on. She will make the decision that Marten wants her gone (whether or not he actually does want that) and that she needs to learn to stand on her own two feet. It may be associated with her getting another job and I can see May as her room-mate/conscience.

Momo would comment on the irony that Faye also functions as May's conscience, of course.

It may also be associated with Marten and Claire moving in together and Faye not wanting to be a third wheel the way she was with Dora.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 05 Jun 2015, 07:39
Is it just me, or is Faye getting a bit bigger?

I think a lot of it is art elasticity, because she looked like this (http://questionablecontent.net/2962) at the start of the day, which is definitely in between today's strip and that older one someone posted.

Really glad Faye is helping to nip this problem in the bud, or at least speed up discussion of it. I'm one of the people who doesn't really appreciate the obvious trust problems Marten's phone call seemed to imply. On the other hand it could just be that Claire was really looking forward to the date for other reasons. Like she had something important to say, had cool plans, was particularly in need of a happy romantic pick-me-up, or was just really horny.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: wlewisiii on 05 Jun 2015, 07:42
Faye and May are an interesting combination, I'll agree. It might be an interesting contrast to see how Faye and May both grow as roommates as to see how Marten and Claire grow as lovers.That's a bit of storytelling that could be quite interesting.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 05 Jun 2015, 08:39
After all the uncertainty that yesterday's strip created. I can relax for the weekend now. Thanks Jeph.

Your optimism knows no bounds.  We've got drunk Faye, clingy Claire, and stressed-out Marten in the same room to look forward to.  I'm going to wait until this in-comic night ends before I stop worrying about Claireten and my trusty old shipping pair, Faye and the desire to live.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 05 Jun 2015, 10:02
After all the uncertainty that yesterday's strip created. I can relax for the weekend now. Thanks Jeph.

Your optimism knows no bounds.  We've got drunk Faye, clingy Claire, and stressed-out Marten in the same room to look forward to.  I'm going to wait until this in-comic night ends before I stop worrying about Claireten and my trusty old shipping pair, Faye and the desire to live.

Would that ship name be Five???

I'm really happy they play board games. It's a wholesome get to know you activity that can also lead to drama.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: chaospersonified on 05 Jun 2015, 10:11
It occurs to me that if May ever did agree to help Faye get sober, their ship name could really only be Fay. The removal of the 'E,' and the alcohol, being May's main contribution.

I kind of want that to happen even more now.

I wanted it already, but the name thing cinches it down
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: retrosteve on 05 Jun 2015, 10:38
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?

Just imagine car engines eating up all those flyover states, a bit at a time, as you drive from New York to L.A. America would solve its gasoline problem!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 05 Jun 2015, 12:30
The telegraph, the jet airplane, the Internet, all were heralded as abolishing distance. ReinderFlotilla's car simply does it directly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Jun 2015, 12:48
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?

Just imagine car engines eating up all those flyover states, a bit at a time, as you drive from New York to L.A. America would solve its gasoline problem!
There goes the neighborhood! And the next neighborhood over...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 05 Jun 2015, 14:05
Been pondering Marten's ending line all night (I work 3rd shift as a Hotel desk clerk).  He's not very amused here - that's serious snark verging on very serious anger. I think Jeph is pointing us at Marten getting to the "enough" point. I think if push really comes to shove, Claire wins. Everyone comments about how he's her first real relationship but I think that in a very important way she is _his_ as well. This is the first time we've seen him take someone else more seriously than anything else in his life. That was the real reason mom said "I saw it coming". She may or may not see the details but she did see Marten grow up three or four levels.

So, he's felt he needed to break a date because of Faye's issues - as a friend you do that but you still feel the anger - and then she pulls her usual "swiss knife of violence" crap on top of it? Clairiten isn't that fragile; the insinuation that she had to help is... unfortunate.

Yeah, I can see him asking her to move out as the 3000 shoe drop.

I'm not sure where you're getting anger from, as Marten's expression in no way, shape, or form reflects that. If Jeph wanted us to think Marten was angry, his facial expression would indicate that, and Jeph is very good at expressions, let alone to convey the emotion he wants the character to convey.

I'm sensing some serious Faye-hate from your post.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: hedgie on 05 Jun 2015, 14:12
He looks more shocked/surprised than anything else.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 05 Jun 2015, 14:15
their ship name could really only be Fay
I do not approve of shipping here, but...dude. "Maye", not "Fay". (Also why are people saying "Clairiten"? That's a god damn allergy medicine, if you must combine their name...why not Martaire?)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Jun 2015, 14:17
their ship name could really only be Fay
I do not approve of shipping here, but...dude. "Maye", not "Fay". (Also why are people saying "Clairiten"? That's a god damn allergy medicine, if you must combine their name...why not Martaire?)
But... but... the allergy medicine pun is the only reason I've been calling them Claireten.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 05 Jun 2015, 14:28
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?

No one said anything about consumption. In that senses, I get exactly one gallon per gallon,  which is one liter per liter, for you metric folks. Or a litre per litre for the people who spell funny.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 05 Jun 2015, 15:06
(Also why are people saying "Clairiten"? That's a god damn allergy medicine, if you must combine their name...why not Martaire?)

The shared consonant does a world of good in the middle of Claireten.  Also, Martaire sounds like you're shipping a drink with a philosopher.  If you thought they were unbearable sober...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Rghfrgl on 05 Jun 2015, 15:12
Quote
Been pondering Marten's ending line all night (I work 3rd shift as a Hotel desk clerk).  He's not very amused here - that's serious snark verging on very serious anger.

Doesn't line up with the rest of the strip, which if Faye doing right by Marten. She's not letting her screw ups drag him down and she's diffusing potential jealousy that ruined his relationship with Dora before it can take root.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 05 Jun 2015, 15:33
BTW, I don't think anyone commented on the fact that Claire answered the call from Marten's phone.  If she'd been as pissed off with him as some people conjectured, she would have let it ring.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 05 Jun 2015, 15:33
(Also why are people saying "Clairiten"? That's a god damn allergy medicine, if you must combine their name...why not Martaire?)

The shared consonant does a world of good in the middle of Claireten.  Also, Martaire sounds like you're shipping a drink with a philosopher.  If you thought they were unbearable sober...
*singing*
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Pilchard123 on 05 Jun 2015, 15:36
Heidegger (Heidegger) was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Gladstone on 05 Jun 2015, 15:52
It occurs to me that if May ever did agree to help Faye get sober, their ship name could really only be Fay. The removal of the 'E,' and the alcohol, being May's main contribution.

Fmay.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Alphawolf55 on 05 Jun 2015, 16:29
"You're welcome" wow Faye way to be a complete bitch.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 05 Jun 2015, 16:46
It occurs to me that if May ever did agree to help Faye get sober, their ship name could really only be Fay. The removal of the 'E,' and the alcohol, being May's main contribution.

Fmay.

You could go Pernese

F'may?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 05 Jun 2015, 17:30
*singing*
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable...
"Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table..."

Ah, there's nothing like a Monty Python reference for the two or three of you out there in the audience.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: CaptainFish on 05 Jun 2015, 18:51
BTW, I don't think anyone commented on the fact that Claire answered the call from Marten's phone.  If she'd been as pissed off with him as some people conjectured, she would have let it ring.

Maybe she thought her assertiveness made him change his mind and he called to apologize.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: tywren on 05 Jun 2015, 20:14

You could go Pernese

F'may?

Only if she where a dragon rider, in which case May would be jealous as all hell, because Faye gets to fly around on a gold dragon, but she doesn't get to be a YF-29 Varitech Fighter. 
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Jun 2015, 02:35
"You're welcome" wow Faye way to be a complete bitch.

Don't call anyone a bitch in a post on this forum, fictional character or otherwise.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 06 Jun 2015, 03:55
BTW, I don't think anyone commented on the fact that Claire answered the call from Marten's phone.  If she'd been as pissed off with him as some people conjectured, she would have let it ring.

Maybe she thought her assertiveness made him change his mind and he called to apologize.

Maybe she even thought/hoped she "made" him go so far as to uncancel their date and leave Faye to her own devices.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Mr_Rose on 06 Jun 2015, 03:59
My milage is exactly one mile to the mile. It never changes.
You have a vehicle that consumes distance itself in order to travel? Isn't that kind of dangerous?

No one said anything about consumption. In that senses, I get exactly one gallon per gallon,  which is one liter per liter, for you metric folks. Or a litre per litre for the people who spell funny.
Yes they did. "YMMV" is an acronym including contraction of "your mileage may vary" as I'm sure you are aware but you seem to have missed that the term "mileage", means "volume of fuel consumed per unit distance travelled" and is generally expressed in miles per gallon.
I have personally never seen it used to mean anything else, even when the units are litres and kilometres, so you came across as trying to make some sort of snarky comment about people being inconstant, which is ridiculous given the origin of the YMMV term; originally a legal disclaimer found in automotive advertising media that maid claims about the products typical fuel efficiency, it has come to mean an acknowledgment that everyone's personal circumstances are different and, therefore, trying to guarantee a claim is valid in all cases would be ridiculous so it would be best if everyone acknowledged that.
Hence the confusion.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 06 Jun 2015, 04:42
"You're welcome" wow Faye way to be a complete bitch.

In fairness to Faye, she's dealing with:
- being drunk
- not being allowed to get more drunk
- probably still repressing strong emotions for Marten
- getting off on the wrong foot with Claire
- everything that's happened in the last (in-comic) week: leaving Angus, getting fired, going to the hospital

And despite all that, she's still doing her utmost to not get in the way of Marten's good time.  Now, I'm not saying you're wrong, but...
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jun 2015, 05:21
I wonder if Marten and Faye will ever be single at the same time again. Not overtly wondering what'll happen if/when that happens.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 06 Jun 2015, 05:57
I wonder if Marten and Faye will ever be single at the same time again. Not overtly wondering what'll happen if/when that happens.

(shakes Magic 8-ball)

"Signs Point To No."
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jun 2015, 06:26
I mean, ideally that's the case because it means Marten and Claire last.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: tywren on 06 Jun 2015, 07:53
"You're welcome" wow Faye way to be a complete bitch.

Don't call anyone a bitch in a post on this forum, fictional character or otherwise.

Alphawolf55 gets a like from me just for Thrillho's bad attitude, and mod bullying.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jun 2015, 08:01
It's not mod bullying, bitch and cunt are gendered insults, and those are not ok here.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: cesium133 on 06 Jun 2015, 08:05
I mean, ideally that's the case because it means Marten and Claire last.
Or that Faye finds someone new (that would probably be the true warning sign that Marten/Claire is about to go wrong).
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Method of Madness on 06 Jun 2015, 08:07
Hey, they can be happy at the same time. It's just not likely.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrillho on 06 Jun 2015, 08:08
"You're welcome" wow Faye way to be a complete bitch.

Don't call anyone a bitch in a post on this forum, fictional character or otherwise.

Alphawolf55 gets a like from me just for Thrillho's bad attitude, and mod bullying.

The forum's rules are the rules for a reason, there is a thread elsewhere if you have an issue with the way we moderate the forum.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 06 Jun 2015, 08:29
Alphawolf55 gets a like from me just for Thrillho's bad attitude, and mod bullying.

Administrator Comment There are rules; the rules have a purpose; the mods uphold the rules. This is not bullying, but how the forum is kept friendly and safe for everyone.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: DSL on 06 Jun 2015, 11:07

You could go Pernese

F'may?

Only if she where a dragon rider, in which case May would be jealous as all hell, because Faye gets to fly around on a gold dragon, but she doesn't get to be a YF-29 Varitech Fighter.

Then I'd go with Mayfly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Skewbrow on 07 Jun 2015, 00:33

Yes they did. "YMMV" is an acronym including contraction of "your mileage may vary" as I'm sure you are aware but you seem to have missed that the term "mileage", means "volume of fuel consumed per unit distance travelled" and is generally expressed in miles per gallon.


I may be wrong but I've seen YMMV used in contexts (and used it myself), where "mileage" means roughly "accumulated experience in the topic under discussion" (be it math, best strategy in some game, or life experience in general). IOW "distance travelled along a more abstract journey". I would use "gas mileage" to make sure that I'm referring to fuel consumption in particular.

But I'm a furriner, and this would not be the first time I have clung to a wrong belief about the meaning of a phrase. While friends are too polite to point out my mistake :-/
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: pwhodges on 07 Jun 2015, 01:54
Not wrong (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/your_mileage_may_vary).  The phrase has a specific literal use and a common idiomatic usage alongside it.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Jun 2015, 07:08
Alphawolf55 gets a like from me just for Thrillho's bad attitude, and mod bullying.
Sexist insults aren't allowed. That's not exactly a huge impost, I think. I, and I think anyone, can get by without violating this minor restriction, yet express themselves with suitable vigour.

If I may suggest an alternative - here's one containing every letter in the alphabet.

Quote
'Sir, you are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte'.

Not that you deserve that. Nor even to be circumscribed, let alone castigated.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 07 Jun 2015, 12:47
Yes they did. "YMMV" is an acronym including contraction of "your mileage may vary" as I'm sure you are aware but you seem to have missed that the term "mileage", means "volume of fuel consumed per unit distance travelled" and is generally expressed in miles per gallon.
I have personally never seen it used to mean anything else, even when the units are litres and kilometres, so you came across as trying to make some sort of snarky comment about people being inconstant, which is ridiculous given the origin of the YMMV term; originally a legal disclaimer found in automotive advertising media that maid claims about the products typical fuel efficiency, it has come to mean an acknowledgment that everyone's personal circumstances are different and, therefore, trying to guarantee a claim is valid in all cases would be ridiculous so it would be best if everyone acknowledged that.
Hence the confusion.

You know your joke bombed when someone writes a dissertation on the punchline.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Omega Entity on 07 Jun 2015, 12:50
Maybe he'd never heard the phrase outside of a car commercial?
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ReindeerFlotilla on 07 Jun 2015, 13:47
Playing with different meanings. It's like the safety instruction, "Keep Out Of Reach Of Children." Everyone knows there's an implied "this product" in that. But I like to think of it as a general rule for living. You're just better off if the little buggers can't get at you.

In this case, I was reading "mileage" the same way your mechanic does when they ask for the odometer reading or the way oil is  marketed for older cars.

I also get about 1.608 kilometers to the mile, but that probably has varied over time.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Is it cold in here? on 07 Jun 2015, 17:03
It's all having fun.

My favorite variation on "Keep out of reach of children" is "To avoid danger of suffocation, keep away from babies and small children". Pretending to misunderstand that one was a great treat.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 07 Jun 2015, 17:38
And pets. Don't forget the pets.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: electromgneticDstroyosaur on 07 Jun 2015, 18:51
BTW, I don't think anyone commented on the fact that Claire answered the call from Marten's phone.  If she'd been as pissed off with him as some people conjectured, she would have let it ring.

I don't think Claire did pick up, though.  Faye's wording feels an awful lot like a voicemail to me.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: ZoeB on 07 Jun 2015, 20:53
Maybe he'd never heard the phrase outside of a car commercial?
Those in Australia and the UK have never heard it, period. We've only seen it in the metaphorical context. It has never appeared in adverts here.

When I first drove a car in the US, I saw "objects in the rear view mirror may appear closer than they are" - and was enlightened. Instantly a Meatloaf song made sense. Before then, just one of many cultural mysteries. "Batteries not included" likewise.

"I can't believe it's not butter" I get. "Where's the beef"... not so much.

I'm sure Americans are equally bemused when Australians talk about a "Clayton's" this or that. Meaning Ersatz, replacement. As in "Our maths teacher's off sick, so we have a Clayton's (ie substitute) teacher"


See also http://ozwords.org/?p=3240
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Perfectly Reasonable on 07 Jun 2015, 22:12
Sexist insults aren't allowed. That's not exactly a huge impost, I think. I, and I think anyone, can get by without violating this minor restriction, yet express themselves with suitable vigour.

If I may suggest an alternative - here's one containing every letter in the alphabet.

Quote
'Sir, you are an apogenous, bovaristic, coprolalial, dasypygal, excerebrose, facinorous, gnathonic, hircine, ithyphallic, jumentous, kyphotic, labrose, mephitic, napiform, oligophrenial, papuliferous, quisquilian, rebarbative, saponaceous, thersitical, unguinous, ventripotent, wlatsome, xylocephalous, yirning zoophyte'.


I pride myself on my vocabulary, and I think I understood about two words of that. My hat is off to you.
(Reaches for dictionary.)

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: jwhouk on 08 Jun 2015, 10:34
"Where's the beef?" Was the catch-phrase from a Wendy's Hamburgers commercial in the early 1980's. 3 old ladies are inspecting a burger from a "competitor", complimenting the bun - but when they lift off the top they find this tiny hamburger patty.

That's when this old lady says the line, "Where's the beef?" Repeatedly.
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Thrudd on 08 Jun 2015, 10:39
*singing*
Immanuel Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable...
"Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar who could think you under the table..."

Ah, there's nothing like a Monty Python reference for the two or three of you out there in the audience.
Three at least though there may be more.
Most of us learned early on "How not to be seen"
(click to show/hide)
and for the curious here is the whole little ditty
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Schwungrad on 08 Jun 2015, 14:01
Sexist insults
Quote
ithyphallic
Not sure whether it qualifies as sexist, but this definitely is a very sexualised insult :P .
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Kugai on 08 Jun 2015, 14:49
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QgCfnBtF7M
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: TRVA123 on 08 Jun 2015, 19:50
BTW, I don't think anyone commented on the fact that Claire answered the call from Marten's phone.  If she'd been as pissed off with him as some people conjectured, she would have let it ring.

I don't think Claire did pick up, though.  Faye's wording feels an awful lot like a voicemail to me.

I think if Faye leaving a voicemail was significant and indicative of coming turmoil Jeph would have emphasized it more.

And who knows, maybe he will in upcoming strips, but I feel that the moment passed, if indeed it was ever a moment.


I think it is a little sad how absolutely insistent people are that Marten and Faye's friendship will torpedo any relationship either one has because of "jealousy" or because Marten and Faye will "always have unpurged love or sexual tension" or whatever.

It is possible, it just takes maturity and self knowledge.

While I could see Claire not having the relationship experience to be able to contain jealousy (although I hope we don't go this route, plotline wise, as it is very similar to the Dora plot) I absolutely do NOT see Marten and Faye ever having a sexual/romantic relationship, much less waking up one day and realizing that they have been "in love for years!"
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: themacnut on 08 Jun 2015, 21:03
Heh, Faye's alcoholism and the need it engenders in Marten to take care of her is going to be enough of a problem for his relationship all by itself, especially if there are more incidents like tonight (which there almost certainly will be). Like I said in previous posts in this thread, I think Claire's patience will only go so far. The only thing that will preempt the inevitable confrontation is if Marten gets sick and tired of cleaning up after Faye's drunken episodes and leaves her to face the full consequences of her next tumble off the wagon. Or perhaps Faye herself, realizing Marten's continuing willingness to care for her could cause further problems in his relationship with Claire, ends up moving out to deal with her problems on her own.

Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: Oenone on 08 Jun 2015, 21:14
It is possible, it just takes maturity and self knowledge.

While I could see Claire not having the relationship experience to be able to contain jealousy (although I hope we don't go this route, plotline wise, as it is very similar to the Dora plot) I absolutely do NOT see Marten and Faye ever having a sexual/romantic relationship, much less waking up one day and realizing that they have been "in love for years!"

...maturity and self knowledge??

It's the absence of both that make me so concerned!
Title: Re: WCDT 2971-2975 (1st - 5th June 2015)
Post by: 94ssd on 12 Jun 2015, 05:59
]"I can't believe it's not butter" I get. "Where's the beef"... not so much.