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Hannelore, Faye, Tai, Veronica...Who's our next stop on the Marten & Claire Get-Together World Tour?

"Jimbo!" "Dad!" "CLAIRE?" "...Jimbo?"
- 28 (35.4%)
Steve (Commence arms race!)
- 8 (10.1%)
Pintsize & Winslow ("It's been militarized!  RUN!")
- 20 (25.3%)
"...Tai?  Are you FOLLOWING us?" "Just wanted to see which slashfic played out!"
- 23 (29.1%)

Total Members Voted: 73


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Author Topic: WCDT: 2831-2835 (10 - 14 November 2014) Weekly Comic Discussion Thread  (Read 71566 times)

ReindeerFlotilla

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Indeed.

If Marten was aware that Veronica had completed her move, the answer to Claire's question would be "yes."

This is Marten we're talking about, though. He thought he'd have to fly up to his dad's wedding.

And this contradicts the quoted line how, exactly?

freeman

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Man, just saying it again: Veronica is huge, like 6 feet 3" easily.
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GarandMarine

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I'm thinking she's in heels for some reason, but yeah, holy crap Marten missed the tall genes in the family.

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ReindeerFlotilla

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Veronica appears to be the same height as, or slightly shorter than, Henry. (They are almost exactly the same height while Veronica is wearing flat boots.)

Sitting down, Veronica is the same height as Marten.

Both Henry and Veronica are taller than Marten in most scenes (There's a notable case where Henry is the same height as Marten, but we'll let that pass).

Veronica is  professional dom, and part time (pro) fetish model.

Since Veronica is scaled roughly the right proportion to be same height sitting as Marten would be, in the current comic, there are only two, logical possibilities:

1)Artist error.
2)Platform heels

The answer is 1)

Veronica is likely wearing heels, but she appears taller than she did yesterday. This was likely to indicate that she had shifted right, toward the view point, to walk past. Her Mom selfie maintains this scaling, however, and the size difference is, over a a big jump from yesterday.

So the question is, how tall is Marten? I figure he's five nine, five ten, much like El Mariachi. No one treats Dora as extremely tall, which one would expect if she were six feet tall. No one treats Marten as terribly short, something you would expect of some one under 5 foot 9. Marten and Dora are close to the same height.

Sven, who I suspect is in the six two to six five range, is taller than Veronica. If Marten is actually 6 feet tall, then Veronica has to be at least six two and Sven is six four or six five. If Marten is five ten, then Veronica is around six feet and Sven is six two to six three. Roughly.

I don't think Sven is supposed to be basketball player tall, so I'm figuring on the low end. Probably closer to five nine for Marten

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genes are funny things, one of my best friends is 6'1 with both his parents being 5'4 and 5'6
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jwhouk

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This is Marten we're talking about, though. He thought he'd have to fly up to his dad's wedding.

And this contradicts the quoted line how, exactly?

He'd be clueless if his mom had told him she would be returning to Cali to get things on day X, and return on day Y, or if she said, "Screw it, I'm just gonna have 'em empty the house out and send all my domme stuff to me, I'm staying here in the meantime."
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ReindeerFlotilla

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This is Marten we're talking about, though. He thought he'd have to fly up to his dad's wedding.

And this contradicts the quoted line how, exactly?

He'd be clueless if his mom had told him she would be returning to Cali to get things on day X, and return on day Y, or if she said, "Screw it, I'm just gonna have 'em empty the house out and send all my domme stuff to me, I'm staying here in the meantime."

Marten has never been that clueless. Not knowing where a town in North Vermont is in relation to where you live is different from forgetting where your mother is. Sheesh.

Whatever caused Marten's reaction wasn't important enough to actually show, as the entire I'm dating Claire now, communication took place off screen. Unless your preferred view of events is "Hi, Mom." "Well, I'll leave you two to your business. Have a good night."

Of course it's all head canon, anyway. So anyone who wants to believe that Marten, Claire, and Veronica exchanged no information beyond hello and goodbye can't be argued with. Marten didn't blow up, nor did he seem overly worried about Veronica's behavior, thus the SUrprise Mom-selfie was actually a surprise. I'm gonna go with it being an extension of the Veronica-drops-in-without-(much)warning running gag, because that is actually a thing. I expect that thing to get worse, rather than better, with Veronica living in Northampton (Mom! What are you doing here? I'd thought I'd stop by. You could have called, and wasn't the door locked? You should have the landlord look at that. Mom! what are you doing here? I live across the street, Marten. *Facepalm* Mom! What are you doing here? It's my boyfriend's bakery.)

BenRG

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It's the fact that Veronica felt the need to get Marten and Claire off-guard and take them unawares that makes me laugh out loud. In some ways, Marten's calm demeanour and easy-going personality is understandable as a reaction to Veronica's spontaneity. I'm thinking that, after Henry left, he had to be the sensible one and keep his Mom grounded sometimes. She was probably more often a crazy teen than he was!

Claire's expressions are great. Panel 1 shows that she still has an automatic 'sub' reaction to Veronica's overwhelming personality, although I think that it's mostly shyness. Panel 3 seems to be nonverbally sating to Marten: "See? Not too bad, was it?" Goodness knows that he needs someone to keep him calm when dealing with his mother! IMHO, panel 4 is a classic Claire derp. I have no doubt that picture will end up online sometime soon!

It's obvious that a lot happened 'off-screen'. Claire's reaction might be because Veronica gave her approval and told Marten that she was 'such a pretty girl' or something similar. Marten seems genuinely surprised that things went so smoothly (so does Claire - she obviously remembers the wedding)!
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Blackbird

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I know Claire is the favourite character of many of the forumites, so I'm trying to tread lightly, but anyone else already bored with this "OMG relationship" gag? 

I guess its the fact that its bringing with it a grind-to-a-halt pacing that's bugging me.  There have been 26 comics since their first kiss (such a squeeworthy event that I and others were driven to this board for the first time just to squee in good company).  Half of these were other stories (10 were about Faye/Marigold reacting to Angus skipping town, two were Winston and Pintsize hijinks, and one was a Yelling Bird filler).  The other half were all about Marten & Claire. ... except only 4 of them were actually about moving the relationship or the story ahead in anyway.  The rest were all characters reacting to it, usually with unusually high levels of happiness or a one-panel filler strip because Jeph had a convention to get to.  That's literally more than 2/3 of one storyline, which itself is taking up half the comic, doing nothing but repeating variations on the same joke.  It's getting boring.
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badpun

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Panel 1 and 3 of Claireface are pretty high up on squee causing charts right now
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BenRG

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I know Claire is the favourite character of many of the forumites, so I'm trying to tread lightly, but anyone else already bored with this "OMG relationship" gag?

I don't think that it is dragging on too long. There are two things that you have to remember:
  • Claire is one of Jeph's favourite characters and I think he wants to show her off a bit;
  • I get the feeling that Jeph is 'setting the board' in some way but for what I'm not certain.
But, yeah, I hope we can move forward soon. I want the Faye/Angus arc resolved and to move on away from 'Day One'.
« Last Edit: 13 Nov 2014, 00:01 by BenRG »
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Akima

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Is it a selfie if there are three people in the shot?
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snubnose

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genes are funny things, one of my best friends is 6'1 with both his parents being 5'4 and 5'6
The height you reach depends upon more than just genes. Food quality has a huge influence.


Is it a selfie if there are three people in the shot?
I think yes. For example, people take selfies of themselves with famous people. So why not of themselves and friends ?

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Is it a selfie if there are three people in the shot?

Photobomb?
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Lubricus

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Is it a selfie if there are three people in the shot?

A selfie is any picture you take of yourself, basicly, so yes.
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Thrillho

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I know Veronica will probably wear heels anyway, but she is tall as shit.
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BenRG

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I know Veronica will probably wear heels anyway, but she is tall as shit.

She is tall but I got the impression from panel 4 that she'd sort of jumped up on Marten and Claire's shoulders; that's why they were visibly staggering.
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Thrillho

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She's taller than them both in every appearance anyway.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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I know Claire is the favourite character of many of the forumites, so I'm trying to tread lightly, but anyone else already bored with this "OMG relationship" gag? 

I guess its the fact that its bringing with it a grind-to-a-halt pacing that's bugging me.  There have been 26 comics since their first kiss (such a squeeworthy event that I and others were driven to this board for the first time just to squee in good company).  Half of these were other stories (10 were about Faye/Marigold reacting to Angus skipping town, two were Winston and Pintsize hijinks, and one was a Yelling Bird filler).  The other half were all about Marten & Claire. ... except only 4 of them were actually about moving the relationship or the story ahead in anyway.  The rest were all characters reacting to it, usually with unusually high levels of happiness or a one-panel filler strip because Jeph had a convention to get to.  That's literally more than 2/3 of one storyline, which itself is taking up half the comic, doing nothing but repeating variations on the same joke.  It's getting boring.

Maybe Jeph is running into the problem of using very few words. Pictures aren't always worth a thousand words. Sometimes five words is worth ten pictures.  It's a learning curve and he's trying to juggle in a new comic at the same time.

If the strength of the WCDT is any indicator, you aren't alone.

I've been doing NaNoWriMo. I'm writing my "novel" as scripts for a comic. It's not a gag-a-day comic, but the majority end on some kind of punch line or beat. If I tried to minimize words (which doesn't really work when word count is the goal) I would probably take three strips to accomplish what I do in one. I'm not saying this is a universal. After all, I think I've done pretty good for a first draft, and I've already churned out 365 scripts. So my ability to punch out the story is different. Jeph keeps a pretty strong story in his head and puts out a script a day.

I can't draw.

My point is, doing low word count storytelling is tricky. I could probably (if I took more time to plan) cut half the dialogue I have. That would speed up the pacing. Jeph's working what seems like a similar pacing but with about a quarter of the words. Allowing for words that solely set up daily gags, I suspect the overall result is that we are getting information at about 50 to 75% of the rate we used to. I suspect things aren't going slow as much as we are feeling starved for details and color.

Or maybe I'm just a guy who wrote 11 months' worth of comic in 12 days. That might skew anyone's perspective on pacing.

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I'm missing the word filled comics a bit more as he goes on
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Thrillho

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I'm a songwriter, so I do low word count storytelling all the time.

It can be difficult to find the line between minimalist and lazy.
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AprilArcus

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I know Claire is the favourite character of many of the forumites, so I'm trying to tread lightly, but anyone else already bored with this "OMG relationship" gag?

Claire is my favorite, and yeah, I'm pretty bored. Jeph is clearly struggling with how and how much to talk about the elephant in the room, and falling back on other characters reacting to mark time while he spins his wheels — but he's out of time, and it's starting to feel really awkward.

Think back to Dora and Tai's first date, which was structured like this one - as a long walk-and-talk around Northhampton. Out of eight strips, they spend half of them talking about queer issues: body image, gender presentation, and genitals, coming out, family relations, and bullying.

We aren't going to see Marten and Claire touch on any of this stuff, because Jeph clearly wants Claire's trans status to be an asterisk at the end of her character — a relevant attribute, but not the salient one. Even if it would make sense for the characters to be talking about it, showing those conversations except where absolutely necessary would work against Jeph's storytelling goal.

So what does that leave? invite ~ invite; banter ~ banter, talking about music ~ well, we've already seen that conversation twice, and nothing new has been established about Claire's taste since her (vaguely dismissive) comments in those strips.

But it makes sense for Dora and Tai to spend the balance of their time talking about their queer experience. They certainly run no risk of alienating each other by doing it, there's no reason for them to feel circumspect about discussing it in public spaces, and it's a shared experience, so it's good cheap bonding for them. Claire and Marten are a straight couple, and this stuff doesn't apply to them. So let's reach further back for a better comparison: Faye and Angus's first date.

This takes place over twelve strips. We get the invite, two strips of banter, some real talk about the characters' childhoods, and a strip about music. In and around this, we get four strips of Marten reacting and two strips of Marigold reacting. These work great, because the stakes are sky-high: we suspect Marten might still have feelings for Faye. Will he be a jealous dick to Angus, or will he be cool about it? How will it affect his failing relationship with Dora? We know Marigold is still into Angus. How will she handle the door closing definitively on any chance with him? We expect her to have trouble and hope that she won't. Suspense!

Compare this to the utterly tensionless cutaways to Faye, Dora (2810), Tai (2822, 2824) and Veronica (2832, 2833) squeeing at Marten/Claire, and it does not feel like substantial storytelling. We haven't even touched on Clinton, the single character who might have a real emotional stake in this relationship.

And could Marten and Claire even have the substantial conversations Faye and Angus are having here? Claire already knows about Marten's childhood. Marten doesn't dare ask about Claire's without her volunteering it first. Jeph won't have her volunteer it. The problem is that although this is technically a first date, it's narratively a fifth, after the walk, the wedding, the induction, and the ear piercing. Most of the narrative tension of Marten and Claire getting to know each other has already been released. It's all over save the butt grabbing.

But of course, they can't just fall into bed Dale/Marigold style without talking about the stuff that Jeph doesn't want them to be talking about! This is why some of us were saying 2830 would be a great moment to time-skip ahead from, picking back up with a Claire and Marten who are fully in the swing of physical and emotional intimacy, and sparing Jeph the difficulty writing himself through a story he's half-way told already, and half-way reluctant to tell.
« Last Edit: 13 Nov 2014, 07:48 by AprilArcus »
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Lubricus

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Any conversation the two of them need to have before doing sexy stuff can, and probably should, happen off camera. Unless Jeph wants to savour the awkwardness, of course, but I doubt he wants that.
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BenRG

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Any conversation the two of them need to have before doing sexy stuff can, and probably should, happen off camera. Unless Jeph wants to savour the awkwardness, of course, but I doubt he wants that.

I'm not sure that this actually needs to be discussed at this stage. Marten is aware; that's what he meant when he told Claire that she felt 'natural'.

My guess is that Jeph is establishing all the other characters' reactions (mostly positive to date) before moving on. I'm not even sure that he'll show the date itself unless there are significant events therein. We might even cut back to the decisive conversation between Faye and Angus and then follow Faye home. Either she finds Marten and Claire making out on the couch or, next morning, there are three for breakfast (as well as Pintsize, still continuing his full-court press to be allowed to eat pancake batter) and we find out what Claire looks like in one of Marten's band shirts.
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osaka

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5 bucks say she gets one of the TEH shirts thinking it's hers and then remembers she's at Marten's.
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Lubricus

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Any conversation the two of them need to have before doing sexy stuff can, and probably should, happen off camera. Unless Jeph wants to savour the awkwardness, of course, but I doubt he wants that.

I'm not sure that this actually needs to be discussed at this stage. Marten is aware; that's what he meant when he told Claire that she felt 'natural'.

Any need for a conversation about it would likely be for Claire's benefit, I imagine. Marten is cool about it all, apparently.
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All I can say at this point is that I really hope Veronica has a better grasp of things like "consent" and "boundaries" in her business life than when it comes to her own family, her son in particular.
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The teeth in the last panel earned a bit of squeeing.

Also, 'SUrprise mom-selfie'? Do you need to clean your keyboard, Jeph? =P

Please note, I'm trying (and probably failing) to be comical.
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All I can say at this point is that I really hope Veronica has a better grasp of things like "consent" and "boundaries" in her business life than when it comes to her own family, her son in particular.

Remember that she was a professional dominatrix. From all the stories of Marten's upbringing though, she was an amateur, but well-meaning, mother.
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AprilArcus nailed it once again.
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BenRG

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Remember that she was a professional dominatrix. From all the stories of Marten's upbringing though, she was an amateur, but well-meaning, mother.

+1 Ditto

Her heart is wholly behind her efforts but, like so many parents, she more-or-less has had to make it up as she went along.
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MooskiNet

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awesome analysis

My gut reaction to the idea of a time skip was oh hells no - there's too much going on right now to simply leap forward.  However, on reading your analysis, I find I have to agree.  There are really only two options - talk about the thing or skip to a place where the thing is understood to have been talked about already.  That may be some of the motivation with the less is more storytelling style of late.

Great, great work.
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snubnose

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Just for the record, Jeph has changed character looks and artstyle all the time, as well as started secondary storylines or just some bit of robot shennanigans. So I dont really see whats so big an issue with todays comics.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Just for the record, Jeph has changed character looks and artstyle all the time, as well as started secondary storylines or just some bit of robot shennanigans. So I dont really see whats so big an issue with todays comics.

Because this isn't a change of art style so much as a change of pacing. (At least how the pace is perceived.) By lowering the word count, Jeph's lowered the information content of each strip. The actual rate of story may not have changed, but it is creating a perception that nothing happened over the last 3 weeks. We had a fairly dense bit oh sqee followed by a week of tension then 3 weeks of not much.

Having recently binged the archives, I know that is pretty normal, but the old dialogue heavy strips still tended to feel like they were moving.

I'm not saying that the new style is a bad thing. I'm saying it's new. We're not used to it. What we are used to is (if I may speculate) is treating dialogue lite comics as filler. This is going to require adjustment.

I don't think the comic is really information lite right now. But Jeph is willing to go hundreds of strips before dropping the payoff for a visual cue.

Only time will tell if this change will pay off, or go by the wayside like the textured hair phase.

AprilArcus

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The "textured hair phase" lasted a thousand (1659-2659) strips, so we may have to hang on for some time.

I generally prefer the minimalist dialogue, and find that the wordiness of the back half the archives makes reading through them a bit of a slog. 2829 is totally getting its job done just as well as 2260, and better than 1732/1733. "The Kiss" and "Fangpocalypse" arcs worked all the better for being really verbally spartan.

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I agree that I believe the pace has suffered lately.  I think it's only partially due to the lower word count though.  I've also noticed a disappointing number of comics with a standard 4 square panel layout.  This layout is much less visually interesting than other layouts that have been used in the past and it leaves less room for things to happen.
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By lowering the word count, Jeph's lowered the information content of each strip.

I disagree... he's relying on his art more to tell the story without words. I think the average information content per strip stays about the same... strips with 4-panel layouts seem to have more words than more novel ones... when there's no words in a given panel it's because he has set up a beat panel or is conveying something in the art.

As far as pacing goes, he's microscoping the first part of Claire/Marten for some reason. I'm not put off by it because I'm pretty sure it'll pay off in the end.
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Thrillho

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Jeph's work is clearly in a transitional phase. We've had his A Hard Day's Night. This is his Beatles For Sale. Let's not push him down the stairs for playing with the format a little.
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I know Claire is the favourite character of many of the forumites, so I'm trying to tread lightly, but anyone else already bored with this "OMG relationship" gag?

Claire is my favorite, and yeah, I'm pretty bored. Jeph is clearly struggling with how and how much to talk about the elephant in the room, and falling back on other characters reacting to mark time while he spins his wheels — but he's out of time, and it's starting to feel really awkward.
(snip)

But of course, they can't just fall into bed Dale/Marigold style without talking about the stuff that Jeph doesn't want them to be talking about! This is why some of us were saying 2830 would be a great moment to time-skip ahead from, picking back up with a Claire and Marten who are fully in the swing of physical and emotional intimacy, and sparing Jeph the difficulty writing himself through a story he's half-way told already, and half-way reluctant to tell.

The pacing has slowed to glacial lately, but I'll note two things: first, we still haven't gotten Clinton's reaction. I think that's one of the reasons that we've seen this set up the way it's been. There'll be sufficient squee to let Claire know that she's on solid ground both with Marten and with his circle of friends, but at some point, the other shoe is likely to drop with someone whose reaction isn't so squee-tastic. Of course, there could be a further twist, if the less-than-cool party ends up being, say, Emily, and Clinton actually shows some decency and genuine support (rather than overbearing protectiveness) toward his sister.

Second, I think there are a few too many loose ends for a time jump right now. Faye/Angus and Dora/Sven especially; he could probably do Faye's side of the story with a few well-chosen lines, but to explain away the Dora/Sven situation with a wave of the hand would stretch credulity (IMHO). I do think that there's a degree to which Jeph may have painted himself into a corner with the number of narrative arcs he's juggling, and also setting up a relationship that he seems to tiptoe around (Claire/Marten), but it'll be interesting to see how he ties it all together.

I'd like to see more of a happy medium in terms of minimalism and a kind of Kevin Smith-ish dialogue-heavy kind of storytelling. Jeph seems to be kinda all or nothing. There are times -- in film or webcomics both -- when a gesture or facial expression says what needs to be said, and then some. But there are times when there's no substitute for dialogue. I'd rather see a balance of the two -- deploy each when they're called for -- rather than sacrificing one or the other just for a stylistic experiment. YMMV.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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So far, I am not a fan of how much is being left off screen. That doesn't mean I won't adjust.

I read most of the archive in real time. It wasn't a slog, when the next button didn't do anything for 18 to 72 hours or more.. rereading the archives wasn't a slog either, because it was undertaken with no other motives than rereading the archives.

I also read very fast.

I'm not arguing that the word level is objectively a problem. Just that it is probably having subjective impacts that make it seem as if the pacing has slowed.

As it happens, I have no issue with running dialogue lite as a device. It's a comic, after all. But words, panel, panel, punchline can get monotonous. We just had two days back to back of exactly that. We learned that Veronica approves, as expected. But that was exactly what was expected. I, for one, wanted more Veronica pay off. This feels like individually wrapped bite size Veronica. It also feels like it's over.

It's all about the feels. For all we know, Veronica is about to go full transgressive. Rereading it via the archives might feel perfectly natural. But right now, taking the story in as it is presented, it does feel like it's in a holding pattern. That's subjective. I'm just laying out the why behind that subjective experience.
By lowering the word count, Jeph's lowered the information content of each strip.

I disagree... he's relying on his art more to tell the story without words. I think the average information content per strip stays about the same... strips with 4-panel layouts seem to have more words than more novel ones... when there's no words in a given panel it's because he has set up a beat panel or is conveying something in the art.

As far as pacing goes, he's microscoping the first part of Claire/Marten for some reason. I'm not put off by it because I'm pretty sure it'll pay off in the end.

Dialogue can also serve as a beat. When I say the information content is down, I mean total information content. The relevant information content may be exactly the same. It's the difference between drinking from a garden hose vs a fire hose. You probably imbibe the same amount of water, but one is going to be a more visceral experience and probably involve more broken bones.

MooskiNet

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I'd rather see a balance of the two -- deploy each when they're called for -- rather than sacrificing one or the other just for a stylistic experiment. YMMV.

I agree with you, but I think finding that balance is often a matter of skating up to - even over - the edge of overdoing it so you know where the line is.  Even then, finding the line can be damnably difficult - as the storyteller, you know what you're trying to get across, but being able to tell if it's actually coming across to anyone else can be a right bastard.

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FunkyTuba

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Sorry to quibble:
Dialogue can also serve as a beat.


Quote from: tvtropes
A silent panel in sequential art.

If there's dialogue, then it's definitionally not a beat. What am I missing?
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AprilArcus

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I think my biggest problem is that Claire has been in a purely reactive mode since she made her (ultimatley successful) pass at Marten 48 strips ago. This is great for Marten watchers, since we've known him for 3000 strips and it's makes for a fun role reversal, but Claire's impetuousness is her most clearly drawn character trait, and she is suffering a lot without it.

Things Marten and Claire could do on their date night that would be more interesting that enduring other characters squeeeeeeing over them:
  • Claire grew up in Northhampton, right? She must know all kinds of cool spots that relative-newcomer Marten doesn't. She grabs his hand and they go running off to the secret book store / nickel arcade / poetry slam. Maybe he meets some of her friends?
  • Talking about the people they have in common over dinner. I like NemoX's theory that Clinton was Claire's only friend growing up. Use dialogue to shine some light in the corner of an otherwise unlikeable character.
  • Claire and Marten talk about Tai, and the important role she's had in Marten's life, how Claire admires that she's so fearlessly out but can't / doesn't want to be like that herself for [insert reasons].
  • Talk about their mutually overbearing moms.
  • Talk about gender stuff in a way that touches lightly on it, and shows us Marten being cool instead of him just saying "I'm cool". "No, I didn't have any boyfriends in high school. They were too busy shoving me into lockers." "Oh yeah, I had that. I kept an emergency reading light and a copy of 'Dune' to pass the time until the principal would fish me out."
  • Claire takes Marten for a drive. In her car. That she owns. Instantly reasserts her agency.
  • Claire talks about where she wants to go with her library career. Marten talks about the show Deathmøle has booked that he's excited/nervous about playing.
Anyone else got one?
« Last Edit: 13 Nov 2014, 09:56 by AprilArcus »
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MooskiNet

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Anyone else got one?

I'd have sworn on my soul that the one about talking about her library career wasn't there on first reading, but I was going to suggest that, especially since the pass she took at Marten 48 strips ago seemed to indicate she thinks or hopes to be at the library for some time, and she's a summer intern.  Maybe she talks about how she's applied for a permanent position?

They could try to draw one another out on what exactly led to their attraction.

"If you could ask me anything with no repercussions, what would it be?"  Either of them.

---

Kind of a follow on to the 'anyone else got one-' if the elephant in the room is Claire being a trans woman, is it possible to deal with it in any manner besides pointedly looking in another direction, and if so, how? 

Mind you, this isn't speculation about the mechanics of anything except storytelling, but if it's determined to be off limits, let me know and I'll delete it.
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ReindeerFlotilla

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Sorry to quibble:
Dialogue can also serve as a beat.


Quote from: tvtropes
A silent panel in sequential art.

If there's dialogue, then it's definitionally not a beat. What am I missing?

No. It's not a beat panel. A beat is merely a unit measuring the flow of the story. I would distinguish a beat panel from an action panel, from a dialogue panel, but they are all beats. Each is a unit of story. When one sets up a joke in panels one and two and a punch line in four, panel three is a beat, whatever it contains.

I mean to say, I suppose, that few  --if any-- of the recent beat panels HAD to be beat panels. The beat could have been anything.

(I should add that, while anything can be a beat, the term tends to be used for things that are not setup or pay off. For example, comedians often use lines to add space between the setup and punchline because that extra time enhances the impact of the payoff. Those lines are called beats.)

wlewisiii

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  • Claire grew up in Northhampton, right? She must know all kinds of cool spots that relative-newcomer Marten doesn't. She grabs his hand and they go running off to the secret book store / nickel arcade / poetry slam. Maybe he meets some of her friends?

Pulled me out of deep lurk mode for my first post with this. I'll just say, hell yes. Grew up as a Punk in a small midwestern (serious flyover) town. She'll know shit Marten would have a hard time imagining exists. Even given his mother... Sere cool.

Back to lurk mode ...

/ lurk
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FunkyTuba

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I mean to say, I suppose, that few  --if any-- of the recent beat panels HAD to be beat panels. The beat could have been anything.

Ah... thanks for the explanation.


Edit: youtube embed didn't work... troubleshooting->looks like it needs the whole url
Edit Edit: apparently nobbc doesn't work on the youtube tag
Edit Edit Edit: it does work on a correctly formed tag
Edit Edit Edit Edit: found a much better version of the song
« Last Edit: 13 Nov 2014, 11:48 by FunkyTuba »
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ReindeerFlotilla

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All other points aside, I really don't think the reduction in dialogue is a bad thing. Looking back, the thing that hurts the comic, for me, is the abrupt switching, since the implosion. The flow of words vs not words was working, before that.

The Faye Dora strip seemed like a setup. The Hanners Marigold strip seemed like filler but turned out to be a setup. The Date strips have been a setup, and Veronica looked like a pay off, but now looks like another beat between setup and payoff.

Subjectively, it feels like the lack of side commentary is hurting the pacing, but it could be that the last two weeks have been moving at the speed of smell.

Maybe I just see it all as missed chances. A few lines of dialogue would go a long way toward keeping Claire active, without any other change. Claire's big problem, as a story telling device, is her expressions tend to be ambiguous. (It's the eyes) What she says helps define what she's feeling. She's been very expressive lately, but she hasn't said enough to clue the reader in on what she's expressing. Jeph knows, on some level, whether she's gotten out of the driver's seat or not, and why. I don't, and I can't tell if her reactions are clues or mean nothing more than they appear to.

AprilArcus

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Just want to point out that Jeph is not plotting this out in any kind of detail in advance - he writes by the seat of his pants, and he's having a very bad week. I'm suspect he went to the Veronica / everyone is :D for Clairten well yet again because he needed to get something out right then (having already missed a day, which he hasn't done in forever) and he didn't have the emotional stamina to write a Serious Dinner Conversation at that moment. I hope he's feeling better and that we get there soon, though.
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